We are all EVIL.

your evil for evean posting that and trying to get it stuck in peoples mind go to church

reply to post by daskakik

I don't typically give money to any charities. And I'm not trying to get anybody to do anything. Did I say that? I'm merely highlighting an observation that I believe to be valid. If you disagree, that's fine. Think whatever you need to think to feel good about yourself. I don't like the idea that I'm evil any more than you do. I'm just conceding that when you step back and look at the whole picture--for the most part--it's true that most of us living in "developed" countries are greedily hoarding excessive wealth and resources while others in the world are suffering and barely surviving. That's fairly evil.

Most of us were taught in kindergarten not to grab all of the cookies being passed around, to share, save some for others so that nobody gets left out. Well, seems that kids can learn that, but societies haven't. Somehow it's different if your part of a group. Probably because the guilt doesn't fall solely on one person. We're just doing what everybody else is doing. You and I are good people at heart, yeah, but since everybody else is overindulging, we might as well too. Hey--we didn't start it. We don't make the rules.

But the truth is, a lot of us are living off of the fat that's trickled down generations and started with the pillaging, murder, and enslavement of others. The USA was built on the greedy, vicious misappropriation of natural resources and the exploitation and enslavement of native and African people. It was pure evil. And we're still enjoying the spoils today--while others in the world starve, suffer, and die. It's still evil.

And I participate everyday without hesitation and will continue to do so. That makes me evil. And you're evil for doing the same.

As for the rest--out of sight, out of mind.

Now I think I'll go have some pasta with an organic green salad and a martini.

Originally posted by dom221211
your evil for evean posting that and trying to get it stuck in peoples mind go to church

Hey, I'm not your grandmother. I don't care what you do on Sunday, Honestly though I wouldn't recommend going to church. You're evil enough already. Religion will only nurture that depravity. Go for a walk instead.

Originally posted by lunarasparagus
reply to post by daskakik

 

I don't typically give money to any charities. And I'm not trying to get anybody to do anything. Did I say that?

What is the point of this thread, and telling people that they are evil, if it isn't to have them change their evil ways?

I'm merely highlighting an observation that I believe to be valid. If you disagree, that's fine. Think whatever you need to think to feel good about yourself. I don't like the idea that I'm evil any more than you do. I'm just conceding that when you step back and look at the whole picture--for the most part--it's true that most of us living in "developed" countries are greedily hoarding excessive wealth and resources while others in the world are suffering and barely surviving. That's fairly evil.

What you are failing to take into account in your observation is that most of the people living in developed countries are not hoarding resources. As someone else pointed out earlier in the thread it is usually locals which keep the local resources from others. Even when aide is sent from abroad some of it always finds its way into the hands and warehouses of those, who have no need, who then proceed to sell this "aide".

And I participate everyday without hesitation and will continue to do so. That makes me evil. And you're evil for doing the same.

As for the rest--out of sight, out of mind.

I guess you missed the part in my first post where I stated that I live in the third world, so no I am not doing the same, that is why I am disagreeing with your armchair quarterbacking on this subject.

reply to post by daskakik

If you're living comfortably with plenty to spare, you're doing the same. If that's not you, then I apologize for my presumptions. I really didn't mean that YOU as an individual are evil. I don't even know you. I'm speaking generally about most of us in the developed world spending excessive time and money on all kinds of things that are unnecessary for healthy living.

Perhaps you don't pay for satelite TV, own an iphone, or flush your shlt with fresh clean water after wiping your bung with toilet paper made from old-growth trees.

But you get my point. Then again, seems like you don't. No matter.

Originally posted by lunarasparagus
reply to post by daskakik

 

If you're living comfortably with plenty to spare, you're doing the same. If that's not you, then I apologize for my presumptions. I really didn't mean that YOU as an individual are evil. I don't even know you. I'm speaking generally about most of us in the developed world spending excessive time and money on all kinds of things that are unnecessary for healthy living.

Your started out ranting about citizens in developed countries and now you are trying to move the goal posts to include anyone who doesn't earn $1 a day or less.

Perhaps you don't pay for satelite TV, own an iphone, or flush your shlt with fresh clean water after wiping your bung with toilet paper made from old-growth trees.

But you get my point. Then again, seems like you don't. No matter.

Your point is wrong because your premise that the majority of people living in the third world are suffering because you bought a fancy cellphone is just not true. It makes no difference to anyone here if you decide to wear nothing but clothes made out of 24k gold threads and encrusted jewels or a simple unbleached hemp sarong.

" life sucks, and then you die "

- Mel Brooks.

reply to post by lunarasparagus


I have heard this for a good part of my life that because a person has the ability to live comfortably that they must be evil for not taking into account the suffering masses of the World.

Although I feel it is everyones responsibility to do what they can to help such people it is not evil to take care of one's self and family to allow they to live a good life. The U.S. provides Billions in Aid all over the Planet and this Aid is paid for by the average Americans paid taxes.

There is about 6 Billion people on Earth and a multitude of Religious and Political issues that cause starvation and lack of basic services. When ever the U.S. get's involved in another country we are told to butt out. When we do nothing we are asked to do something. We can't win.

Split Infinity

This all comes back, in some way, to the theory of the Hierarchy of Needs by Maslow, as well as the evolution of civilization itself.

At the base level, humans need a certain amount of water, food, and shelter in order to survive. If you live day in and day out just scraping by, there is not a whole lot of philosophizing going on. At some point, however, you figure out a system and are able to keep at least one step ahead of starvation. Man, being a social creature, shares this with his fellow man, and eventually the situation arises where the entire tribe is no longer just scraping to get by.

Around the same time, humans discover the capacity for functional specification - and thus, not everyone is involved in the feeding of the community and leaves a much larger segment to pursue other things (thinking, inventing, etc...). As the society progresses, man is further and further removed from the need to hunt on a daily basis, and finds that the more "materials" he accumulates, the easier life for him becomes, and it allows him and his progeny to expand their energy into other areas.

The problem is that as man specializes, he becomes better and better at supporting large and larger segments of a populace - not everyone is contributing to the baseline survival of the community, nor is there a need for them to. Soon society segments. At the bottom, you have the supporters, those at the very base who contribute directly to the survival of the tribe through defense, food and water sourcing, and hygiene workers (sanitation engineers, etc...). Next you have a class of craftsmen who's function is to create the tools which the supporters use to do their job. The better the job the supporter does, the better job the craftsman can do.

As society grows beyond this, a third class of people arises - the servicers. Their job is to service the tools the craftsmen created, service the population facilitating trade and road building, construction, and other "societal appropriate" services. This gives rise to a further group of people - the intellectual class, which relies heavily on the other three classes (supporters, craftsmen, and servicers). Their job is to further society through invention and efficiency improvements.Finally, no large society has shown to exist without a ruling or elite class.

The first heads of "tribe" were merely functional posts within a society to help guide and direct the societal organism. Their main focus was the growth and betterment of the tribe. Unfortunately, as the "tribe" grows, it reaches a point where the ruling class becomes a product of their own creation and therefore the interests of the society and the "ruler" slowly diverge.

So where does this "greed" come from? Back to the biological basics, man, in all his technological advancements, is still driven by the fundamental need to procreate. In these structured societies, those who have the most resources are more able to support their offspring than those who have the least - thus sex naturally flows to the top. A result of this, there is a drive for everyone to improve their resources.

Although there are people who "say" they would be happy living on the bare minimum, there are very few who, living at the bare minimum, would reject the opportunity to ease their burden just a bit with a bit more resources. Luckily for most living in the modern world, we don't need to manage large stores of food - instead we manage other resources (money) which will in turn enable us to procure our basic needs at a later point in time.

So to summarize.
1) A human being has specific needs they have to survive.
2) Having a surplus of "resources" allows the individual to focus on higher needs (self-actualization)
3) Having more higher needs taken care of makes an individual more happy, and thus individuals equate resource to happiness.

Originally posted by daskakik
Your started out ranting about citizens in developed countries and now you are trying to move the goal posts to include anyone who doesn't earn $1 a day or less.

Now you're just being dishonest (which is evil, ha ha) and you're therefore losing credibility. I said, "living comfortably with plenty to spare". Somehow you've twisted that into "anyone who doesn't earn $1 a day or less"? You're rreeeaalllyyy reaching now to try to discredit me which probably means you feel threatened by what I've said, which probably means you are indeed as evil as I am. I mean, come on, $1 a day or less? Did I say anything close to that? If you have a valid point, bullshlt is not necessary.

Your point is wrong because your premise that the majority of people living in the third world are suffering because you bought a fancy cellphone is just not true. It makes no difference to anyone here if you decide to wear nothing but clothes made out of 24k gold thread and encrusted in jewels or a simple unbleach hemp sarong.

Don't, again, misrepresent my statements (you're really trying to sell me on your evility). I did not say people in the world are suffering BECAUSE I bought a fancy phone. I am not the source of their suffering. I'm saying that despite knowing of the suffering of others in the world, I do nothing and instead spend money/time/energy on something I don't really need, resources which could have been used to provide aid to others who are indeed genuinely suffering.

It's just not nice. When you were a kid, if you took a second cookie after already eating a first, knowing there's a kid nearby who still hasn't had any cookies, your mom would have scolded you. Why? It's evil to do that. It's wrong. We all know sharing is the right thing to do.

In the real world though, we don't care about the other people nearby who haven't had a cookie yet. Because we want a cookie AND an iphone. So we get the iphone.

reply to post by lunarasparagus


No, we are NOT. Don't try to blame individuals for what is happening in Africa.

The reasons why there is starvation, famine and disease is because TPTB want it so. Vladimir Putin gave a speech at the 43rd Munich Security Conference on 10th February 2007 stating the real reasons behind world starvation and poverty - that western governments have deliberately made it that way. He's surprisingly candid.

The entire speech can be watched on Youtube - "Vladimir Putin speaks at Munich Security Conference"

Originally posted by rottensociety
reply to post by lunarasparagus

 

No, we are NOT. Don't try to blame individuals for what is happening in Africa.

The reasons why there is starvation, famine and disease is because TPTB want it so.

Yeah, okay, keep telling yourself that. You're fine. No, REALLY, you're fine.

Originally posted by lunarasparagus
Now you're just being dishonest (which is evil, ha ha) and you're therefore losing credibility. I said, "living comfortably with plenty to spare". Somehow you've twisted that into "anyone who doesn't earn $1 a day or less"? You're rreeeaalllyyy reaching now to try to discredit me which probably means you feel threatened by what I've said, which probably means you are indeed as evil as I am. I mean, come on, $1 a day or less? Did I say anything close to that? If you have a valid point, bullshlt is not necessary.

It's a popular phrase used to put into perspective poor peoples income to the amount of money that people of the industrialized countries earn.

Why would I feel threatened? Your the one moving goal posts.

Don't, again, misrepresent my statements (you're really trying to sell me on your evility). I did not say people in the world are suffering BECAUSE I bought a fancy phone. I am not the source of their suffering. I'm saying that despite knowing of the suffering of others in the world, I do nothing and instead spend money/time/energy on something I don't really need, resources which could have been used to provide aid to others who are indeed genuinely suffering.

Well, then your point is even emptier than I originally thought. I already pointed out that there really is no way for you to use your extra income to really help. You seem to be ignoring this fact just to be right.

It's just not nice. When you were a kid, if you took a second cookie after already eating a first, knowing there's a kid nearby who still hasn't had any cookies, your mom would have scolded you. Why? It's evil to do that. It's wrong. We all know sharing is the right thing to do.

Again, the kids you are talking about, who have not gotten a cookie, are beyond delivery distance of the cookie so your argument is invalid.

Originally posted by daskakik
I already pointed out that there really is no way for you to use your extra income to really help. You seem to be ignoring this fact just to be right.

I'm not ignoring this. In fact, this statement, this rationalization, this LIE, exposes your apathy and indifference to the unjust suffering of others. It exposes your evilness.

There really is NO way to use your extra income to really help people? You believe this? You're simply rationalizing to ease your conscience (I'm assuming you have one). This is a cop-out, a lazy man's excuse to continue his life of comfort and excess while denying his part, direct or indirect, in the suffering and injustices being perpetrated on others in every part of the world.

If you were honest, you would have said, "there really is no EASY or CONVENIENT way for you to use your extra income to really help".

You're not helping your argument. At this point it might be better to just go ahead and admit you're evil.

reply to post by lunarasparagus


Actually the only thing I'm going to admit to is that I fell for a troll thread.

No matter what anyone offers you come back with "no because I say so" and don't offer anything else. Your OP was wrong from the start but you refuse to acknowledge it even when others make solid points, so you have fun being right.

reply to post by daskakik

Call me a "troll" if you want, if--again--that makes you feel better, but if you would like to know, I was watching an episode of "Louie" which contained the clip I posted in the OP and I thought it was very interesting to hear him call himself evil, because I have pondered on several occasions that exact thought, i.e., I've wrestled with the question of the morality of living a life of excessive comfort, spending lots of money on all kinds of fun but unnecessary luxuries, while there are so many people out there without even the basic necessities for health and survival, like food. shelter, clean water, medical care, etc., not to mention all the innocent victims of persecution and exploitation.

Is this way of living ethically tenable? Do I, a citizen of the U.S., live in a moral society?

At the time, nobody (or very few) living in this country thought they were evil when natives were being robbed and murdered. Most didn't believe themselves evil when slavery was legal, or when the segregation and discrimination of minorities was sanctioned by the state. Most would have said, "Well there's nothing you can really do to help them anyway". In hindsight it all seems terribly evil to me.

Similar evils are occurring today. And I have to admit that it seems no less evil to stand by and do nothing or bury your head in the sand knowing it's going on around you.

So what do I do about it? Thus far, relatively nothing. Does that make me evil? It seems like it does. Am I wrong for sharing this on this forum about social issues? Some people clearly think so. I'm not sure why it make me a troll. Perhaps people can't relate, or they take my bluntness as a joke. I can be sarcastic and facetious sometimes, but my intent here was not to simply rile people, it was to express my thoughts.

reply to post by lunarasparagus

Sounds like a personal moral quandary.

Why troll others with it?

Originally posted by daskakik
reply to post by lunarasparagus

 

Sounds like a personal moral quandary.

Why troll others with it?

I disagree. A personal moral quandary would be something like, "Should I report my boss for recording extra hours not worked"? I'm proposing a question about the immorality of our society and the role that we as individuals contribute to it. Should I not speak of such things in this discussion forum? Apparently you are pretty bothered by it.

reply to post by lunarasparagus

You disagreeing doesn't make you right.

You refuse to acknowledge that the word evil is out of context and you refuse to recognize the valid arguments that others have posted. The only one left to ponder the moral issue, on your terms, is you. Maybe that is where you should have left it?

reply to post by lunarasparagus


So how do you feel about your conclusion, that we are all evil, being in agreement with the God of the OT ?

One only has to take a good look at the world that is, but was not intended, to see that OP is right. Cause something is very wrong with a species who has had everything handed over to it, including dominion over the
whole beautiful earth and every creation of life with-in it.

We have just about plundered our entire existence and soiled our beautiful home.
That's how we show appreciation ?
If we aren't evil then what word do you use to describe it ?