US: "Far more gun-related killings than ANY other developed country"

Originally posted by NavyDoc

Originally posted by Cocasinpry
reply to post by NavyDoc

 

Allow me to take it a step further..

I say let's disarm all the armies of the world then let's have all the world leaders settle their differences with a big game of dodge ball.

And then the one guy who picks up a rock wins. We've kind of been through this before, since the dawn of mankind.

Eject him from the game for unsportsmanlike conduct... don't shoot him!

reply to post by Cocasinpry


The world isn't a game.Its about people.

reply to post by Cocasinpry


It's not a game. It is a life and death struggle. Believe it or not, there are amny, many people out there who have no problems hurting other people. It has been that way since the dawn of time. If you could magic away all of the guns at once, the strong would still prey on the weak. All you accomplish is taking away a tool that the physically weaker could use to protect themselves from the bad people that exist.

The gun control issue isn't about guns...its about control. Its about scared people wanting control (or the illusion of it) of other people who might potentially harm them...To them I say control is an illusion and the fact crime STILL hasn't been stomped out and murder still happens regardless of ALL efforts ever devised should illustrate that pretty clearly...

The contention isn't about guns...or death...those are points within the argument but its not really what people are arguing over. What is the real argument?

Safety-Security mindset (anti-gun) Vs. Freedom-Liberty mindset. (pro-gun)

History lesson...

you see back in the days when dictators/tyrants/kings were noobs and were hard-handed and out in the open people had an overwhelming desire for freedom-liberty to escape that oppression. This is what apparently inspired the creation of the US the constitution, the declaration of independence and the bill of rights.

Over time as freedom was had in this new "world" the consequence of those freedoms were becoming very apparent and the solutions to these inherent consequences of freedom are ALWAYS...and I mean ALWAYS more control, regulation ultimately leading into oppression back into dictators/tyrants/kings and back into authoritarian based societies.

This is the ebb and flow of society/government etc.

more freedom bring less freedoms which bring more freedoms which bring less freedoms and its a viscous cycle brought to you by the two hemispheres of the brain that reduce reality into polar opposite problem solving skills. Which really if you were to look at humanity at a glance...would have accomplished absolutely nothing in the entirety of its existence...pretty pathetic if you ask me.

Anyway back to my original point...the issue isn't guns...its not even death...or massacres. The issue is safety/security fighting freedoms/liberties...this is the foundation upon which everyone here is ultimately arguing.

The problem with this problem is for whatever reason the "solution" has to be an all eggs in one basket approach...its everyone or no one...its either this or that...

I heard an anti-gun proponent suggest gun owners get their own island...which I found comical because that's exactly what I'm talking about. The gun owners proponents are arguing upon the principals of freedom and liberty...not guns...in which case THEY DID find an island...(well not an actual island) but they established a land
that's principals were based in freedom/liberty and it has been infested with the opposing mindset of safety and security.

Even if gun owners find another land (assuming anything is left) to yet try and setup principals of freedom/liberty it would be naive to assume that safety and security wouldn't infest that landscape as well.

The free world isn't rainbows and unicorns (neither is any world for that matter)...its messy and has issues...but at least in that world you are free.

History repeats itself for far more underlying reasons that people simply not learning from it...it repeats itself because humanity is absolutely insane with its circular nature of black and white problem solving.

So lets stop beating around the bush here...lets start discussing the real issues were all concerned with at the core...safety and security vs freedoms and liberties...which world are we going to live in?

Hmm, do we know where these statitics orginated from?

Originally posted by alfa1

Lovely company you keep there...
Sierra Leone 2.28
West Bank & Gaza 2.95
United States 2.97
Barbados 2.99


I much prefer...
Australia 0.14

don't move to the US then, I'm sure they will be gutted

Originally posted by artnut
You can have an extremely secure area, with no guns or weapons, and people will still murder each other. What is the murder / assault rate in prison?

Secondly, if we are going to leave out undeveloped countries, we cannot include said murderers from undeveloped countries; i.e. illegal aliens such as those from Mexico and other South American countries.

Thirdly, these "undeveloped countries" are older than the United States. Take Russia for example, they have put people in space for pete's sake! There may be parts that are unstable and undeveloped, but come on, they should be included (would not make the figures look good, though). How about Brazil? Have you ever been to Rio de Janero? Looks pretty developed to me. I hear a lot of talk about how fabulous Hugo Chavez is by a lot of liberals, but I guess he heads an undeveloped country, so let's not talk about how high the numbers are there.

Anyone can make numbers look good with a strong bias and a little cherrypicking.

totally correct- ultimately every nation has a different history, culture, demographic etc, and that is just the way things are

reply to post by minnow


I completely agree, the US military industrial complex that everybody so "reveres" are responsible for so many deaths around the world. This is the glaring hypocrisy of our times. It is the "Let them eat cake" of our days.

In response to the thread subject, SO WHAT.

reply to post by minnow


Once again a thread that ignores our rights by hiding behind a issue.The murder rates in the U.S have zero to do with our second admendment rights.Please watch link before you reply.If a crimminal will use a gun to commit a crime.It should not in any way limit my rights under the U.S. Bill Of Rights.

The issue of a drunk driver killing someone does not mean all cars should be taken away.That scenario also means.That just like a murder that person is a crimminal and should be but in jail.

At issue is our rights as a sovereign citizen in a sovereign state.Of coarse a Nation with our population and being the only nation of this size with the Right To Bear Arms.Will lead a list of similar sized nations.Your argument is a moot point.




.www.fox19.com... -politically-incorrect-truth-about-the-second-amendment

www.youtube.com...
This video seems to have facts in it.

reply to post by cavtrooper7


...life is a competition, all this who's got a bigger gun is directly related to that. That's how fun and games turns into murder. Life's not a game? You think war's not a game? Of course it is! Government using citizens as pawns in their war for this earth's precious resources. You see, I'd seriously much prefer a war in which paintball guns were used instead of the real thing, it would save many families a lot of grief and sorrow.

And what are you teaching your kids? ...Guns solve problems.

So they go and steal your guns and mimic what everyone else in this world is doing. This is their war; this is their own apocalypse. Perhaps if you'd use your head, just perhaps the next generation would have a chance at a better life but instead you choose to fuel on the fire and perpetuate the hate.

Guns are the problem, they are the epitome of violence, death and revenge. These are the moral values that you bestow upon your children but not what I will bestow on mine. All this bull# about guns is all about power and pride, which is why this war will never end.

The solution isn't to perpetuate violence but to surrender.

Obviously most of you will have no idea of what that means.

Originally posted by JarheadFidelis
www.youtube.com...
This video seems to have facts in it.

Yes it does. It shows that England and Wales has a murder rate of 1.3 (per 100.000) and the US 4.7.

reply to post by cripmeister


I didnt say I agreed with it, I just said it seemed to have facts. Im glad you enjoyed it.

Up here is Canada I get 5 bullets allowed per clip. IMO, if the Uncle F#4ers down there in the bible belt (the ones complaining cause they cant have 100 Ar-15 rounds in their clip) -can't hit a deer in five shots then they shouldn't have guns.

reply to post by canucks555


Although I see your point about the hunting aspect...The U.S. constitution and the 2nd amendment dont mention hunting. I dont really see the need for high capacity magazines myself. I can just buy a bunch of standard capacity mags and change out when I empty it. It doesnt take a mechanical engineering degree and an hour to change a magazine.

Originally posted by Cocasinpry
reply to post by cavtrooper7

 

As I said I don't see much of a difference.
We still don't lock our doors and we don't feel the need to own M4 carbines like you do.

I don't lock my doors either, and I live in Texas. Before you make it about guns, though, understand that the town I live in has a teeny-tiny murder rate. Aside from that, I suspect, though, that one in two of my neighbors do own firearms

Gun murders still have to be taken in context in the area they occur, the United States is not crawling with gun murderers, contrary to popular belief

By the way, wild hogs are doing incredible damage in Texas to land and crops due to an explosion in population. (you can Google it yourself). It is so bad that the state is allowing year-round no tag hunting to combat the problem. Ever run into a wild hog? They usually run in packs, and if they are rutting, watch the F out. This is a perfect example of a need for a M4

Originally posted by Cocasinpry
reply to post by cavtrooper7

 

...life is a competition, all this who's got a bigger gun is directly related to that. That's how fun and games turns into murder. Life's not a game? You think war's not a game? Of course it is! Government using citizens as pawns in their war for this earth's precious resources. You see, I'd seriously much prefer a war in which paintball guns were used instead of the real thing, it would save many families a lot of grief and sorrow.

And what are you teaching your kids? ...Guns solve problems.

So they go and steal your guns and mimic what everyone else in this world is doing. This is their war; this is their own apocalypse. Perhaps if you'd use your head, just perhaps the next generation would have a chance at a better life but instead you choose to fuel on the fire and perpetuate the hate.

Guns are the problem, they are the epitome of violence, death and revenge. These are the moral values that you bestow upon your children but not what I will bestow on mine. All this bull# about guns is all about power and pride, which is why this war will never end.

The solution isn't to perpetuate violence but to surrender.

Obviously most of you will have no idea of what that means.

Nonsense. Guns are but a tool. I teach my kids to have a fire extinguisher in case of fire. THey neither fear fire nor love the fire extingusher. They know how to use it just in case, but they do not give it any mystical or emotional properties. Same with firearms. They are tools. My daughters know how to use them and understand they may have to in defense of their bodies but they neither fear them nor love them and do not sit about in dread of a potential rape. It is not about power to them, or me, but about retaining a simple inanimate object that may come in handy if, gods forbid, the worse happens. Evil people have preyed on innocent people since the dawn of time and will do so until the end of time. Before guns were used for self defense, it was bows or farm implements. Before that, it was sticks and rocks. The only thing that a firearm does differently is to remove the physical strength aspect from teh equation and permit my daughters to be able to stop a much larger and stronger and even more than one attacker. Why would you want to make my daughters more vulnerable? Why would you want to disempower young women like that?

If they take away guns I will have to use my carbon steel Klingon Batleth to defend my house,the courts would LOVE that mess.
Some guy in back fatigues stuck to a wall for kicking my door in ,I think I can penetrate non ceramic armor with a good swing.
A gun leaves a neat little hole.
And my superior training supports their use. I will maintain them but thank you for your opinion.It is wrong and dangerous for me as well as you ,even if you haven't the intellectual prescience to put together what will happen with an attempt to ban assault guns completely.
Which is as we sit now is illegal.

Originally posted by cripmeister

Originally posted by JarheadFidelis
www.youtube.com...
This video seems to have facts in it.

Yes it does. It shows that England and Wales has a murder rate of 1.3 (per 100.000) and the US 4.7.

And before gun control, the murder rate of the UK was 0.6 per 100,000. How did gun control make you safer?

en.wikipedia.org... al_homicide_rate_by_decade