Why masons?

Originally posted by Leveller

Originally posted by billyevil

Finally, taking the word of a mason on the subject is alot like asking a car salesman if his lot has the best deals in town. It's very hard to believe and trust them due to their reputation and it's hard to think of a good reason to trust them.

Surely you could have come up with a better analogy than that. A car salesman is trying to sell you something.
Freemasons aren't trying to sell you anything. They aren't trying to get you to join their Order. If you research properly, you will find that Freemasonry is honourable, but if your negative beliefs about us are based on lies, then it can only be natural that we should defend ourselves and our Fraternity.

This doesn't mean that Freemasonry is the total and utter be all and end all - Freemasons are human beings with all their flaws after all. We aren't superhumans or conceited fools. Just ordinary men. When you write that you don't like Freemasonry based on what we know are falsities, then what is better? That we tell you the truth or that we let you carry on believing and hating through a lie?


We aren't selling our Order - all we are doing is telling the Truth.

I never said i hated you or any of the masons. If you want me to hate you i can do that, but i'd like to be the one who decides who i hate before it is decided for me. I will say that your comments irritated me, so you're partially there, but your rush to judgement about me was much like the behavior of those anti-masons that you desire so much to correct.

My analogy about car salesmen was meant to show you an example of a group of people who aren't always trusted in society, since that is the impression that i've gotten in regards to how, judging from the number of anti-mason stuff out there, most people people feel about masons. I wanted you to see that the truth you speak can't always be accepted when you're part of the group you're defending. Especially when those you are trying to tell your truth to already have a bad impression of those in your group.

If you want a better analogy then here is one. I was an eagle scout in boy scouts growing up, and i had a great experience with it. Other people outside boy scouts have had bad experiences dealing with it and even though i had a good experience, i wouldn't expect those that had bad experiences to believe me, since i was part of it.

I hope that is clearer.

Originally posted by billyevil
I never said i hated you or any of the masons. If you want me to hate you i can do that, but i'd like to be the one who decides who i hate before it is decided for me. I will say that your comments irritated me, so you're partially there, but your rush to judgement about me was much like the behavior of those anti-masons that you desire so much to correct.

My statement was a generalisation and was not aimed at you in particular - rather like saying "When you walk in the rain, you will get wet." The you encompasses everyone - that is unless you are waterproof.

Who is the judgemental one now?



[edit on 27-10-2004 by Leveller]

Billyevil;

First there is the name... its hard to treat someone seriously that calls themselves evil... but I do try.

Second, your approach has been somewhat confrontational, and yet you seem surprised when you are called on and challenged to defend your position(s). No one has called you evil, called you names, denigrated you or treated you in a manner that would be considered inconsistent with good social manners.

We HAVE called you on your statements, and asked you to defend them (you haven't yet) and called you on your analogies. What did you expect, that we would all just kick back and accept your posts as gospel or something? We know from your posts that you do not like or trust masons.. that's fine. Would you care to defend and explain WHY, or shall we just accept your bald assertions at face value and move on?

C'mon, this FORUM is designed to DENY IGNORANCE. If someone comes in here acting like they are ignorant about a subject, AND holding forth on it, does it not seem right, fit, mete and proper that those that DO know about the subject would reply?

Your last analogy about being a member is a good one. However, do you not defend scouting against ignorant attacks? Do you try to understand where the attacker is coming from, or do you just let it roll off and move on? Whether YOU trust us or not isn't really important, we are not here to convert... what we ARE here for is to spread the truth, as contrasted against ignorance.

Now, you come attacking masonry and masons... would you care to try to defend your postion, offer examples to support your position, or are you satisfied with ignorance?

just curious... oh, and why would a former boy scout name himself as evil? As a former scout myself, I find the juxtaposition somewhat incongruous...

Originally posted by theron dunn
Billyevil;

First there is the name... its hard to treat someone seriously that calls themselves evil... but I do try.

I explain the nickname at the end of the post, since you meantion the nickname there too.

Originally posted by theron dunn
Second, your approach has been somewhat confrontational, and yet you seem surprised when you are called on and challenged to defend your position(s). No one has called you evil, called you names, denigrated you or treated you in a manner that would be considered inconsistent with good social manners.

The comment that surprised me was the one where i was accused of saying i hated, when i didn't and don't. The empty rhetoric comments were a bit confusing as well since i thought i was just stating my opinions on how things were being presented, and didn't release my thoughts were someone else's rhetoric, while that could be possible.

Also the comment about Alquida being men without souls was a bit odd, since no matter what someone does i can't imagine that someone is without a soul. Men and women are capable of both good and evil in this world, and i don't know why God created and let what happened happen, but i wouldn't say that a person is without a soul. I won't demonise them because of what happened, because there's just enough hate going on and i don't see a need to continue it. Hate only leads to more hate and i try my best not to hold onto bad feelings. Other than that i think you were a bit overly defensive, but as you will read, i think i understand why now.

Originally posted by theron dunn
We HAVE called you on your statements, and asked you to defend them (you haven't yet) and called you on your analogies. What did you expect, that we would all just kick back and accept your posts as gospel or something? We know from your posts that you do not like or trust masons.. that's fine. Would you care to defend and explain WHY, or shall we just accept your bald assertions at face value and move on?

You don't have to accept anything anyone says, but you can if you want. I really don't think my opinions need defended, though i see that my wording may of put you on the defensive.

As to my personal feelings on masons you don't know those from my posts but i will tell you them now. I don't trust anyone that i don't know until i have reason to trust them, and that includes masons. I don't think there is reason for either of us to trust each other currently. My comments in the analogy was refering to what i think the general feeling is among those who don't like masons from what i've seen and heard.

My intention was to help you see why your truth wasn't getting through to some people due to them not being able to trust you as you are part of what they dislike and don't trust, so that you'd consider another approach in dealing with those people. I became irritated when i was accused of hating and the other things i've meantioned above, but i watched becker and had some dinner and let it go.

As for my not liking masons, i think my not disliking masons should be sufficient, as there are a large number of masons and i wouldn't want to commit myself to liking every one of them. If someone gives me a reason not to like them then i won't. Though my disliking someone isn't lasting, since i just can't justify wasting my memory remembering why i don't like someone.

Originally posted by theron dunn
C'mon, this FORUM is designed to DENY IGNORANCE. If someone comes in here acting like they are ignorant about a subject, AND holding forth on it, does it not seem right, fit, mete and proper that those that DO know about the subject would reply?

You really give me too much credit. I have been around forums and subjects like this one in the past, but i've never talked in depth about the masons movement. Your reaction to my comments caught me by surprise because i honestly thought that i was going to enter a friendly discussion, but from the postings it looks as though you all are way too defensive. I did however look you up on google, and found a site that you are listed at:
www.freemasoninfo.ca...

I found the site to be useful in information and after seeing the section on anti-masons, i see now that you guys actually see that as being a threat to the masons.

In short, Anti-Masonry is a movement whose aim and mission is to exterminate the Masonic fraternity. As long as Freemasons have existed, there have been in opposition to the tolerance and sense of Democracy the Masonic order has always put forth

I realise this is just a brief statement and there is examples of how they behave, which i read over to see if the way i presented myself may of triggered a defensive reflex, which i see now that it could be taken the wrong way.

My initial intention was to just point out that i didn't like the methods being used, and bringing up hitler and the holocaust is a strong emotional defense to use, which i felt was being used as a defense or attempt to gain pity for the masons and i didn't like seeing it used in a forum as it was being presented, and i was trying to tell you why i thought people would react badly to the masons, since it seemed to be a confrontation more than a discussion, which i apologise for adding to, as i'm seeing now that i could of presented myself and ideas better.
I do see by your comments that you finally understood my analogy explaining why i feel people won't trust someone inside a group when they say they are telling the truth.

Originally posted by theron dunn
Your last analogy about being a member is a good one. However, do you not defend scouting against ignorant attacks? Do you try to understand where the attacker is coming from, or do you just let it roll off and move on? Whether YOU trust us or not isn't really important, we are not here to convert... what we ARE here for is to spread the truth, as contrasted against ignorance.

When i've talked to people who've had a bad experience with scouts i've never been on the defensive. I never felt the need to be, simply because i had a good time with it, and my only concern when talking to people is that i feel badly that they didn't. I listened to them and tried to see myself in their shoes. I told them what my experience was like and said i was sorry that they didn't.

I'm sure that the people i've talked to probably still don't like scouts, but i like to think that after talking to me that they got out the bad experiences by talking about them. I don't feel i'm on a mission to defend scouting to people, just let them vent and hopefully they at least got over the bad feelings, which i think could work for those that had bad experiences with masons. But it's your fraternity, and not mine, and this is just a suggestion.

Originally posted by theron dunn
Now, you come attacking masonry and masons... would you care to try to defend your postion, offer examples to support your position, or are you satisfied with ignorance?

My position was i didn't like how things were being conducted and i offered my opinions. Putting you on the defensive is something i'm sorry about, because it wasn't my intention to be seen as a threat, though i understand why i would be seen as one. I don't see a need to attack you or defend myself, though i hope i've explained myself. I don't consider myself your enemy, but if you consider yourself mine then you're wasting your time, since i'm not interested in fighting. There's enough of that in the world.

Originally posted by theron dunn
just curious... oh, and why would a former boy scout name himself as evil? As a former scout myself, I find the juxtaposition somewhat incongruous...

Here's the ten cent explaination..

billyevil is a nickname i picked up when i was younger from some friends when i used to repair computers for people. What would happen is that they'd say they'd spent hours working on a machine without being able to repair it, and i'd come along and do exactly what they'd initially done, but then things would suddenly work. A similiar thing would happen with women, where they'd get upset because i was able to get dates easily, and they couldn't or wouldn't feel they did as well.

At which times my friends would call me evil billy, jokingly making it sound as though i had some kind of power over the machines and women, and they also felt that things in general came easy to me for some reason, over time the nickname became billyevil. The nickname just stuck with me and i've used it ever since. It doesn't seem to bother most people, and i know you didn't need to hear the whole longwinded story, but i wanted to be clear. If you want to know my real name it is billy holland and i'm from erie,pennsylvania.

I hope i answered all your questions and beyond. Feel free to email me if i've confused you again.

There's heaps of information on the Thule Society these days on the web - here is a little tidbit I found on a single Google:
Please not that this WAS an offshoot of many Masonic organisations including The Scottish Rite, its founder was a member of just about every Masonic fraterity going around at the time.

www.meta-religion.com...

As far as the passage from Mien Kampf, it basically says that Jews have overrun the lodges of Freemasonry to such an extent that they are now their unwitting lackeys.
The action was not to shut them down permanently. it was to "cleanse" them, which duly happened, all foreign lodges were closed and all the Prussian Lodges removed any Hebrew or Jewish symbols and then reopened under their new title "The Frederick The Great Society."
After the war they just changed the name back to "The Freemasons."

Originally posted by billyevil
The comment that surprised me was the one where i was accused of saying i hated, when i didn't and don't.

Look, you may NOT, but your posts are empty rhetoric... what we have asked for, what I have asked for, is the basis upon which you base your poor opinion. You post an opinion without any backing, are you surprised that someone would ask for a justification???

The empty rhetoric comments were a bit confusing as well since i thought i was just stating my opinions on how things were being presented, and didn't release my thoughts were someone else's rhetoric, while that could be possible.

Sure you are, but without any kind of justification, they are just empty rhetoric and without value. If I came on and posted that I think you are a whining self indulgent child with dreams of self importance, that would be an opinion, but it would be an empty and valueless one, unless I provided reasons and examples of behaviors that would lead me to that conclusion. Understand?

Also the comment about Al Quaida being men without souls was a bit odd, since no matter what someone does i can't imagine that someone is without a soul.

Ah, YOU can offer rhetoric without explanation, but I can't, when the example of their soulless BEHAVIOR and lack of a social conscious is there in front of all of us? Sheesh, try not to be so disingenuous, folks might mistake you for STUPID instead of deliberately obtuse...

Men and women are capable of both good and evil in this world, and i don't know why God created and let what happened happen, but i wouldn't say that a person is without a soul.

Well, that's very Christian of you... too bad your rhetoric about masonry wasn't so christian....

I won't demonise them because of what happened, because there's just enough hate going on and i don't see a need to continue it. Hate only leads to more hate and i try my best not to hold onto bad feelings. Other than that i think you were a bit overly defensive, but as you will read, i think i understand why now.

You think I hate the Muslims and Al Quaida? You mistake me, sirrah. I feel pity for them, but in the same sense as I feel pity for a dog with rabies... but that doesn't stop me from putting a bullet in the dog's brainpan to protect myself and my family from it...

You don't have to accept anything anyone says, but you can if you want. I really don't think my opinions need defended, though i see that my wording may of put you on the defensive.

Ok, don't defend your position... its really ok with me that you leave your indefensible posts hanging just as they are... empty rhetoric without any value to the discussion at hand...

As to my personal feelings on masons you don't know those from my posts but i will tell you them now. I don't trust anyone that i don't know until i have reason to trust them, and that includes masons. I don't think there is reason for either of us to trust each other currently. My comments in the analogy was refering to what i think the general feeling is among those who don't like masons from what i've seen and heard.

Well, that is nice... it must be a real tough row to hoe living like that... I tell you, one thing about Masonry is that I KNOW without any further checking, that I can trust ANY mason, on the spot, and that if I need assistance, it is just a call away, no matter where I am in the world. Given YOUR bleak and dark view of humanity, and the joy and light that I see within my brothers in masonry, I guess the choice isn't difficult.

Maybe someday whatever it is that has so traumatized you will be exocised, and I really wish you well, but trust does not seem the issue in your posts. On the other hand, you say it is, so it is... that does not explain why you would attack the good and honorable men in masonry, unless that lack of trust you claim also embraces ignorance and spite?

My intention was to help you see why your truth wasn't getting through to some people due to them not being able to trust you as you are part of what they dislike and don't trust, so that you'd consider another approach in dealing with those people. I became irritated when i was accused of hating and the other things i've meantioned above, but i watched becker and had some dinner and let it go.

Well, that is the ONE thing you have posted so far that makes sense. If that is your point, why did you not start off with that, instead of all the rest? You may not hate us, and since that is your claim, absent any other evidence to the contrary, I will accept your statement, you might consider that the manner in which you posted SURE LOOKED LIKE HATE AND SPITE...

As for my not liking masons, i think my not disliking masons should be sufficient, as there are a large number of masons and i wouldn't want to commit myself to liking every one of them. If someone gives me a reason not to like them then i won't. Though my disliking someone isn't lasting, since i just can't justify wasting my memory remembering why i don't like someone.

Hmmmm, ok.

Originally posted by theron dunn
C'mon, this FORUM is designed to DENY IGNORANCE. If someone comes in here acting like they are ignorant about a subject, AND holding forth on it, does it not seem right, fit, mete and proper that those that DO know about the subject would reply?

Originally posted by billyevil
You really give me too much credit. I have been around forums and subjects like this one in the past, but i've never talked in depth about the masons movement. Your reaction to my comments caught me by surprise because i honestly thought that i was going to enter a friendly discussion, but from the postings it looks as though you all are way too defensive. I did however look you up on google, and found a site that you are listed at:
www.freemasoninfo.ca...

I found the site to be useful in information and after seeing the section on anti-masons, i see now that you guys actually see that as being a threat to the masons.

A threat to masons? No, not really. We have for hundreds of years ignored the chattering sniping of the underinformed as beneath notice. However, in today's media dense environment, people need to hear things four or five times to just HEAR them. If the ONLY voice heard by the public, that knows nothhing of us, is that of the nattering naybobs of negativity, then that is what they will believe. I think you are a prime example of that.

you know NOTHING of masonry and masons, but you start off attacking it out of plain ignorance and a definite lack of trust. That is YOUR cross to bear. My issue is to get the truth about masonry out, and anyone that criticizes masonry without any facts or evidence deserves a response. Now, I did not attack you, I asked for the basis for your comments. You offered nothing but more rhetoric, and then claimed to be an old hand at this...

It is clear you are not, and have not spent much time in debate, and are apparently used to simply posting your opinions and not having them challenged. The purpose of THIS forum is to DENY IGNORANCE. So, if someone comes here posting in ignorance, you can EXPECT a reply to educate and correct. Not that I particularly care about YOUR opinion, but 90% of the readers of any forum do not post, but simply read the posts.

I reply for THEM. If, in the process, you, billyevil, learn some truths, or at least are encouraged to go out and learn the truth, then HALLELUJAH!

Originally posted bybillyevil
My initial intention was to just point out that i didn't like the methods being used, and bringing up hitler and the holocaust is a strong emotional defense to use, which i felt was being used as a defense or attempt to gain pity for the masons and i didn't like seeing it used in a forum as it was being presented, and i was trying to tell you why i thought people would react badly to the masons, since it seemed to be a confrontation more than a discussion, which i apologise for adding to, as i'm seeing now that i could of presented myself and ideas better.

I do see by your comments that you finally understood my analogy explaining why i feel people won't trust someone inside a group when they say they are telling the truth.

Oh, my friend, I have a doctorate in Religious Philosophy, and many many courses in psychology, I KNOW why people do the things they do, or have a pretty good handle on it... You may not like the Hitler analogy, but it IS apt, it IS on point, and it is NOT offered to evoke sympathy. Facts are facts. Necros was trying to deny that Hitler rounded up masons and closed masonic lodges, and the fact is, he did.

The UK is now restarting the "Star of David" that the Nazis used to mark the Jews in the 1930's against the masons, by requiring them to state their affiliation if they are police, councilmen, barristers, judges etc. There is only one purpose in doing this, and it is the very same purpose the Nazis used the "Star" for... excluding folks from jobs... and the current proponents of this SAY SO.

So, while I understand you may think the reference over the top, the plain fact is that there are folks that REALLY TRULY WANT TO ROUND UP MASONS and to exclude them from public life. AND in an ostensibly free country no less!! How would you feel if it were... oh, catholics they were requiring to register, or socialists (too many of them... lets say communists) or any other group.

It is plain wrong. It was wrong when Hitler did it and it is wrong when the UK government does it. Period.

Originally posted by theron dunn
Your last analogy about being a member is a good one. However, do you not defend scouting against ignorant attacks? Do you try to understand where the attacker is coming from, or do you just let it roll off and move on? Whether YOU trust us or not isn't really important, we are not here to convert... what we ARE here for is to spread the truth, as contrasted against ignorance.

Originally posted bybillyevil
When i've talked to people who've had a bad experience with scouts i've never been on the defensive. I never felt the need to be, simply because i had a good time with it, and my only concern when talking to people is that i feel badly that they didn't. I listened to them and tried to see myself in their shoes. I told them what my experience was like and said i was sorry that they didn't.

I'm sure that the people i've talked to probably still don't like scouts, but i like to think that after talking to me that they got out the bad experiences by talking about them. I don't feel i'm on a mission to defend scouting to people, just let them vent and hopefully they at least got over the bad feelings, which i think could work for those that had bad experiences with masons. But it's your fraternity, and not mine, and this is just a suggestion.

Its too bad you see it as defensive. I asked YOU to defend YOUR position, and you refused... that is hardly being defensive. My goal here is to educate the ignorant. I am a Masonic apologist, in the truest sense of the word, and PROUD of it.

Originally posted by theron dunn
Now, you come attacking masonry and masons... would you care to try to defend your postion, offer examples to support your position, or are you satisfied with ignorance?

Originally posted by billyevil
My position was i didn't like how things were being conducted and i offered my opinions. Putting you on the defensive is something i'm sorry about, because it wasn't my intention to be seen as a threat, though i understand why i would be seen as one. I don't see a need to attack you or defend myself, though i hope i've explained myself. I don't consider myself your enemy, but if you consider yourself mine then you're wasting your time, since i'm not interested in fighting. There's enough of that in the world.

I certainly don't consider you my enemy. I simply asked you to defend your statements. That is hardly defensive. You made statements about masons that show a definite lack of understanding. I asked what you base your opinions on, as that is the best way to understand someone. I do the same with necros, but he is crazy, and reading his posts proves it, but you seemed to be interested in truth, despite the manner you approached us, so I asked for more information.

Originally posted by theron dunn
just curious... oh, and why would a former boy scout name himself as evil? As a former scout myself, I find the juxtaposition somewhat incongruous...

Originally posted bybillyevil
Here's the ten cent explaination..

billyevil is a nickname i picked up when i was younger from some friends when i used to repair computers for people. What would happen is that they'd say they'd spent hours working on a machine without being able to repair it, and i'd come along and do exactly what they'd initially done, but then things would suddenly work. A similiar thing would happen with women, where they'd get upset because i was able to get dates easily, and they couldn't or wouldn't feel they did as well.

At which times my friends would call me evil billy, jokingly making it sound as though i had some kind of power over the machines and women, and they also felt that things in general came easy to me for some reason, over time the nickname became billyevil. The nickname just stuck with me and i've used it ever since. It doesn't seem to bother most people, and i know you didn't need to hear the whole longwinded story, but i wanted to be clear. If you want to know my real name it is billy holland and i'm from erie,pennsylvania.

I hope i answered all your questions and beyond. Feel free to email me if i've confused you again.

Naw, you didn't confuse me. Having been an IT manager for the past quarter century, I know EXACTLY what you mean about walking up to a computer and suddenly it works... people call me a Mac Wizard or simply a computer Wizard, and I too have taken that and used it... my company logo was a Gandalf type Wizard with a magic wand.

thanks for taking the time to explain... sorry if I appeared defensive, that is not MY intention, either.

Theron Dunn
Junior Warden
Evergreen Lodge #259 F&AM
Riverside, Ca

Swedish Order of Freemasons

�dmjukhet, tolerans och v�lg�rande i ord och handling. Inre mognad genom den undervisning som frimureriets ritualer och symbolik f�rmedlar.


I apologise for the Swedish text I will translate but I included it for reference.


Humility, tolerance, and charity in word and action. Inner maturity through the teachings that the freemasonic rituals and symbolism brings.

I found this on the homepage of the Swedish Grand lodge. Doesn't seem all that sinister to me.

It seems to me that there are other organisations better suited to work for world domination than the Freemasons. Text like that tend to attract people that does not have that on their agenda. I've been curious of the Masons for some time now, just didn't know where to look. Now this discussion set mee looking in the right place for some reason.

To be honest I think many of the people opposing the Masons are mostly jealous. The want to belong to something too. As a Mason you always have someone to turn to. Isn't that what we all want?

I might be wrong though, you never know. Maybe they really are out to get us. I guess there really only one way to find out. Join them and see for yourself.

LOL . . . good point.

I think the only reason we get so much heat on these boards is because . . . . . .

We are the ONLY "secret society" posting here. That's it. ALl the questions, the suspicions, the accusations fall onto OUR heads because we're the only ones who show ourselves here.

Not to worry, if it were only the members of the OTO, or the Eastern Star or whoever else, they'd be in the same position.

That's the way it is: once you meet in private with like-minded people behind closed doors and you don't talk about what went on because it is private (and protected by Constitutional fiat), you seem to make yuorself open to all sorts of nonsensical attacks from those who are unusually nosey and have little else to do other than to worry about what others are doing.

Why masons eh?

Well just take a little look at some of it's more prominent members... and welll there is your answer really.

Its great to be in a little boys club with "big" boys.

Originally posted by MrNECROS
As far as the passage from Mien Kampf, it basically says that Jews have overrun the lodges of Freemasonry to such an extent that they are now their unwitting lackeys.
The action was not to shut them down permanently. it was to "cleanse" them, which duly happened, all foreign lodges were closed and all the Prussian Lodges removed any Hebrew or Jewish symbols and then reopened under their new title "The Frederick The Great Society."
After the war they just changed the name back to "The Freemasons."

Wrong again, as usual. You may spew your propaganda from now until the coes come home, but you'll never be able to change the facts of history, regardless of your endless Orwellian attempts to do so.

The fact remains that the Nazi Party was always an anti-Masonic organization, and the Thule Society had nothing to do with Freemasonry. The fact also remains that the Society of Frederick the Great was always anti-Masonic, and its organization was based on the fiction that the king had repudiated Freemasonry in his later life and became an anti-Semite (in reality, Frederick remained a dedicated Mason all his life, was buried with Masonic honors, and practiced universal tolerance towards the Jews and Muslims in his kingdom, in accordance with Masonic ethics).

Necros can only link looney conspiracy theory sites, while academic historical websites give the true story. I think most readers at ATS are intelligent enough to determine the truth of the matter themselves.

Fiat Lvx.

I am so sorry but i just have to let this out.

Name:

First there is the name... its hard to treat someone seriously that calls themselves evil

billyevil-bull , now thats a name ?

Masonic Lite - Please be serious.
Why would anyone name an Anti-Masonic group "The Frederick The Great Society"?
It would be like calling an Anti-Semite group "The Star of David Society."
You're really grasping at thin air.

Oh hang I forgot - Hitler orchestrated a huge plot involving the creation of a completely false branch of Freemasonry consisting of nearly half a million members just so he could persecute Freemasonry and spread terrible lies about it.
Quick, better go and tell all the Old Prussian Lodges that they are still carrying out his evil deeds 50 years after his death!

As for the Thule Society not being Masonic.....sheeesh....you'll really have to try harder than that, at least try the usual BS about it not being "regular" or something.

The only similarity the Thule society shared with Masonry is that it was fraternal. That's where it ends. Fraternities at college are also fraternal, incidentally. Fraternitie do not imply Masonic teaching.

Oh, Christian... there you go, making sense and posting it to necros... as if it would mean anything to him...

He has it all SO wrong, that it is hard to believe that he functions in any society at all... maybe he keeps it all to himself during the day, and then almost explodes with it on the internet in an explosive vomitus of posts...

I mean, I have never seen one person so wrong about SO many things before... well, there's John Kerry....

Originally posted by MrNECROS
Oh hang I forgot - Hitler orchestrated a huge plot involving the creation of a completely false branch of Freemasonry consisting of nearly half a million members just so he could persecute Freemasonry and spread terrible lies about it.

And that's really so unbelievable is it? I don't know if you noticed but Hitler orchestrated a huge plot involving the whole planet and yet you make a statement that he was unable to act against Freemasonry in Germany - a relatively small organisation in his own country?
Have you really never heard of the Nazi Party, the SS, the Holocaust or World War2? Are you completely unaware of the system that Hitler put in place in Germany?

Hitler couldn't move against Freemasonry on his doorstep yet he could control nearly all of Europe?

Your lies have put you out of touch with reality, Necros.

There were many Christians active in the nazi party, is Christianity also a part of it?

there are many who call themselves christians because they go to church on sundays, however it takes much more than that to be a christian.
Any true christian would have chosen death over collaborating with a movement to exterminate gods chosen people!! c'mon people!!! this is an intelligent discussion forum, use your brains!!!!

BTW. As my name suggests I am a member of a very exclusive, very secret society, however we do no harm to others, are we to be rumoured about and feared, just because we are secret?

ABTW. skandi, when you talk about "innocent wiccan rituals" and have your mood as eating babies, Do you not think it ruins any credibility you think you have?