Why masons?

Why is everybody so worried about the masons? I mean there are a lot of secret societies, religous cults, clubs etc so why does everyone focus on masons? Why not the shriners? between those funny hats, the little cars and all those hospitals (and who knows what experments they are running on poor kids) they are just as sinister. Why not the elks? They are an all male organsation. For tht matter what about hari krishna's I mean shaved heads, funny diet aren't they worth fearing? Or Jehovas witnesses for that matter. I mean really why masons?

Mostly, I think, because IN THE PAST we have been an easy target for the skinhead and tinfoil hat brigades, being that we AREN'T open to the general public, and DIDN'T tend to answer the few detractors that popped their wesely little heads up. Today, that has changed, and we are aggressively refuting the balderdash posted or spoken about us.

As for the Shriners, well, we are ALL masons. You cannot currently be a Shriner if you are not a master mason in good standing.

Some folks, little in emotional stature and intellect, NEED someone, some group to hate so they can feel good about themselves and their pathetic little lives. They are the same folks that used to pick on Jews, but that is not politically correct any more, and the Jews now fight back, so they are picking on the masons, but THE MASONS ARE FIGHTING BACK...

no telling who their next target will be... ignorance knows no bounds. Thank g-d for forums like this, where the stated purpose is to DENY IGNORANCE.

Hitler sent Freemasons to concentration camps. Anyone the little dwarf with the funny moustache wanted to erradicate cant be half bad, IMHO.

I think the reason people flip out about masons is because they are secretive, and people suspect anyone with secrets must be up to no good.

I can understand this because i used to be a practicing Wiccan, and since my own rites and rituals of the time were private and something i did not share, my family suspected it must involve sacrificing small animals and pacts with satan.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

Once you realize a little bit about masonry, it doesnt seem so scary, unless you wear a tinfoil hat or are a fundimentalist Christian living in a unibomber shack with a doomsday stockpile of weapons.

The reason people post about them so much is becuase they've screwed over more people than every other secret society put together.
Basically these peole will lie ,cheat and steal from you then run like daylight denying everything while all their cronies dive in front of you to hold you up and send you round in circles.
No one has a good word to say about them who isn't one themselves.

Incidentally Hitler did NOT send Freemasons to concentration camps unless they were Jews.
Many lodges were closed due to Jewish membership but at least twice as many remained open and even closing these "Jewish" lodges did not mean sending the members to the camps (unlike the trade unions).

More lies huh, Necros???

I'm going to post something here,... it is the closing charge given at the end of every lodge...
It is not secret, as it is printed,... in this case in a book called "The Exemplar" which is a book published by the Grand Lodge of Pennsylvania, and in several other publications. Under the Grand Lodge of Pennsylvania, anything printed is not considered secret. What it will do however, is give a good indication of who we are and what we do...



Every single word of that closing charge is meant...
It represents who we are and what we do, in the best words that we can share with those who are outside of our organization. Find falt in them if you can, and if you will. I suggest that if you do, you aren't reading them, just scanning them for words you can dissect...

[edit on 27-10-2004 by JaseP]

[edit on 27-10-2004 by JaseP]

Wonderfully put, my brother. Unfortunately for folks like necros, the truth rings hollow and facts are playthings.

Hitler did close all masonic lodges, and did arrest all masons he could find, along with seizing the assets of lodges. Hitler's propaganda Minister Goebbels spoke against masonry, as did Hitler, and my brother, any organization that was hated and suppressed and harrassed by the Nazi's is a group I am proud to be a member of... more, and just food for thought, masons are hated by Al Quaida, and I am supremely proud to be part of a group that is hated by Al Quaida, may they burn in the pit...

G-d Bless all masons.

Repeating your old lies now Necros? If anyone wants to look back through this forum, they will see that you were exposed and had your butt kicked over this subject before.

Hitler sent any Freemasons he could capture to the camps - Jews or not.
The Lodges that remained open were not Freemasons Lodges - they were filled with non-masons by the regime and forced to toe the party line. These Lodges were not recognised by the Grand Lodges in the rest of the world. A lot of the "secrecy" that you see in Freemasonry today, stems from the actions of the Nazis. Freemasons had to go underground or face a regime that would destroy them.

Do I have to repost those passages from Mein Kampf? Do I have to link to the old thread? Do I have to repost the documents proving you wrong? Did you think that people would forget this subject after time and that you could respin your old lie without challenge?

If you would like to carry on this lie here, I will be happy to put you straight again. I have a feeling though, that you will let it drop and ressurect it in the future when you think that the truth has been forgotten.

Jews and Freemasons were victims of the same perverse attitudes which led to the Holocaust yet Freemasons continue to be abused as if they never suffered and were not victims.[4] One must ask why?, for what purpose and to what end? Why are Freemasons used as the international ‘whipping boy’ for all the ills of the world?



As sensational, and unfounded claims of murder, child sacrifice, paedophilia, and political assassination committed by Freemasons are aired in the press it is unsurprising that demands are made for public registers of all Freemasons. As politicians suggest that it is not possible for one to be, for example, a Judge and a Freemason, Freemasons in the UK recall similar demands in Nazi Germany.
www.grandlodgescotland.com...


With a conservative estimate of 80,000 Freemasons executed by the Nazis and Fascists, simply because they were Freemasons, it is no wonder that Freemasons in Great Britain shudder with every demand for them to be publicly named (and therefore by implication, ‘shamed’). Hitler, Mussolini and Franco used exactly the same argument: that it was in the ‘public interest’ for innocent men to be forced to publicly declare their membership of a legal, legitimate, institution. They were then gassed for complying.

Robert L. D. Cooper

Curator

The Grand Lodge of Scotland Museum and Library

May 2004.

www.bessel.org...

In early 1934, soon after Hitler's rise to power, it became evident that Freemasonry was in danger. In that same year, the "Grand Lodge of the Sun" (one of the pre-war German Grand Lodges, located in Bayreuth) realizing the grave dangers involved, adopted the little blue Forget-Me-Not flower as a substitute for the traditional square and compasses. It was felt the flower would provide brethren with an outward means of identification while lessening the risk of possible recognition in public by the Nazis, who were engaged in wholesale confiscation of all Masonic Lodge properties. Freemasonry went undercover, and this delicate flower assumed its role as a symbol of Masonry surviving throughout the reign of darkness.

During the ensuing decade of Nazi power a little blue Forget-Me-Not flower worn in a Brother's lapel served as
one method whereby brethren could identify each other in public, and in cities and concentration camps throughout Europe. The Forget-Me-Not distinguished the lapels of countless brethren who staunchly refused to
allow the symbolic Light of Masonry to be completely extinguished.


Try searching for this information yourself reader, it is fact recorded in many places by many historians.

The masons are not a secret society,there a society with secrets!

First of all i don't agree that the masons have suffered as much as the jewish people, and trying to establish a link between the two could be seen as a way to gain sympathy to a group on the same level as that which is deserved by the jewish people.

Second, i noticed a comment, "masons are hated by Al Quaida" Now, being hated by a terrorist group doesn't exactly make you the good guys. Also, this could almost feel like an attempt to align the masons with the victims and good guys in a situation. If you're an american you're more than likely hated by Al Quaida, even if you're an american serial killer, you're still hated. Does the hate of Al Quaida suddenly make a serial killer into a good person? I don't think that it does.

In all i don't understand why it seems there is a need for the masons to align themselves with other groups in comparison unless it is just to improve their image, which is understandable, since they have a pretty lousy image. But, when you knowingly join a society that has been said to be behind so many shady things it makes alot of people wonder what kind of person would want to or need to join such a secret group.

Also, why be secret if you're worried about what people think about you? Just come out and lay it all on the table for people. Secrets are great, but when they become instruments of fear they need to be brought into the light so people can see they have nothing to fear.

Finally, taking the word of a mason on the subject is alot like asking a car salesman if his lot has the best deals in town. It's very hard to believe and trust them due to their reputation and it's hard to think of a good reason to trust them. I'm sure Al Quaida members don't believe that they are evil, so take that into consideration when people make comments about the masons.

I know i'm new to this site, but i'm not new to these kinds of discussions and i wanted to give my opinions. I don't mean to offend anyone, but i think the masons speaking here need to realise that it's hard to take their word.

I can't believe people are still pumping out the Blue Forget Me Not BS.
Do you really think the Gestapo were so stupid that they wouldn't know an obvious symbol like that?
It's well documented that the particular pin was actually a Winterhilfe (collection of food and clothing for the poor during the winter season) badge hence its appearence in so many photographs.
The closing of "irregular" Jewish Lodges by the Nazi's was not an offence that anyone was sent to concentration camps for, you just had to join another Lodge, most German bretheren did.
Note that ALL societies were closed or re-ordered during their time in power, including the Boy Scouts.
To believe this bunk you would have to also believe Hitler had a conspiracy against them so big that he even got about half a million Germans to create special "anti-mason" lodges that are even today still in operation!
Just so nasty people like me can spread "lies" about Freemasonry.
Heck the Nazi party was formed out of a Freemason offshoot - The Thule Society.

Why Masons? Because they are the largest secret society on the planet - ask anyone who has been screwed over by them, and that's pretty much everyone at some stage in their life.
If you haven't been yet, don't fret because the day will surly come.

Well they obviously worked it out because he murdered 80,000 of them. That does by no means negate the original reasoning.


Yeah right Hitler was well known for his care of the poor and the hungry. However you are partly correct many thousands of Germans created irregular Lodges, that were not accepted by the other European Grand Lodges as they were just puppets for Hitler, he started pruning them when they did not agree to what he wanted.


Hitler created an emmense Army when the rest of Europe thought he was dis-arming , a few Masonic Lodges would not have been a major task now would it.



freemasonry.bcy.ca...
The reality
"Immediately on Hitler's rise to power, the ten Grand Lodges of Germany were dissolved. Many among the prominent dignitaries and members of the Order were sent to concentration camps. The Gestapo seized the membership lists of the Grand Lodges and looted their libraries and collections of Masonic objects. Much of this loot was then exhibited in an "Anti-Masonic Exposition" inaugurated in 1937 by Herr Dr. Joseph Goebbels in Munich. The Exposition included completely furnished Masonic temples.
"The persecution was carried over into Austria when the country was captured by the Nazis. The Masters of the various Vienna lodges were immediately confined in the most notorious concentration camps, including the horrible living hell at Dachau in Bavaria. The same procedure was repeated when Hitler took over Czechoslovakia, then Poland. Immediately after conquering Holland and Belgium, the Nazis ordered the dissolution of the lodges in those nations. It was also Point One on the agenda of Major Quisling in Norway. It may be taken as part of the same ugly picture that General Franco of Spain in 1940 sentenced all Freemasons in his realm automatically to ten years in prison. When France fell last June, the Vichy government caused the two Masonic bodies of France, the Grand Orient and the Grande Loge to be dissolved, their property being seized and sold at auction." 3
Hitler's hatred of Freemasonry is clearly documented. In 1931 Nazi party officials were given a "Guide and Instructional Letter" that stated, "The natural hostility of the peasant against the Jews, and his hostility against the Freemason as a servant of the Jew, must be worked up to a frenzy." 4 On April 7, 1933, Hermann Goering—who once considered becoming a freemason—held an interview with Grand Master von Heeringen of the "Land" Grand Lodge of Germany, telling him there was no place for Freemasonry in Nazi Germany. 5 The Nazi Primer, the Official Handbook for the Schooling of Hitler Youth, attacked freemasons, marxists, and the Christian churches for their "mistaken teaching of the equality of all men" by which they were said to be seeking power over the whole world.

Hitler, in his own words:
"To strengthen his political position he [the Jew] tries to tear down the racial and civil barriers which for a time continue to restrain him at every step. To this end he fights with all the tenacity innate in him for religious tolerance—and in Freemasonry, which has succumbed to him completely, he has an excellent instrument with which to fight for his aims and put them across. The governing circles and the higher strata of the political and economic bourgeoisie are brought into his nets by the strings of Freemasonry, and never need to suspect what is happening.
"Only the deeper and broader strata of the people as such, or rather that class which is beginning to wake up and fight for its rights and freedom, cannot yet be sufficiently taken in by these methods. But this is more necessary than anything else; for the Jew feels that the possibility of his rising to a dominant role exists only if there is someone ahead of him to clear the way; and this someone he thinks he can recognize in the bourgeoisie, in their broadest strata in fact. The glovemakers and linen weavers, however, cannot be caught in the fine net of Freemasonry; no, for them coarser but no less drastic means must be employed. Thus Freemasonry is joined by a second weapon in the service of the Jews: the press. With all his perseverance and dexterity he seizes possession of it. With it he slowly begins to grip and ensnare, to guide and to push all public life, since he is in a position to create and direct that power which, under the name of 'public opinion,' is better known today than a few decades ago." 7
"While the international world Jew slowly but surely strangles us, our so-called patriots shouted against a man and a system which dared in one corner of the earth at least, to free themselves from the Jewish-Masonic embrace and oppose a nationalistic resistance to this international world poisoning." 8
"The general pacifistic paralysis of the national instinct of self preservation begun by Freemasonry in the circles of the so-called intelligentsia is transmitted to the broad masses and above all to the bourgeoisie by the activity of the big papers which today are always Jewish." 9
"The prohibition of Masonic secret societies, the persecution of the supra-national press as well as the continuous demolition of international Marxism, and, conversely, the steady reinforcement of the Fascist state conception, will in the course of the years cause the Italian Government to serve the interests of the Italian people more and more, without regard for the hissing of the Jewish world hydra."

Wierd. Looks like it's a pro-mason form of the anti-mason sites. Personally i have trouble believing the propaganda of either type site.

And no one is claiming that we did... 80,000 Masons is HARDLY comparable with 6 million Jews. HOWEVER, the similarity of treatment is there, and denying it is the same as the holocaust revisionists, who deny the jews were gassed.



Sorry, i disagree. Anything the terrorists hate is a good thing.



Ok, the last part is a good point, but comparing masonry with serial killers is hardly on point, nor associating masons primarily with America. there are masons in EVERY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD... and being despised by Al Quaida is a good thing as far as I am concerned. Everything right, mete, fit and proper is opposed by those fools, and I am proud to be included in their list... you can rest assured, they are on MY list.



Actually, truth be told, we have a pretty GOOD image, a fact that we are working to maintain against the lies and deceits of our very few vocal detractors. Would you like to offer something substantive in your attack on masons, or are you satisfied with empty rhetoric?



Well, it may show that you have more intelligence than the average, who seems to be willing to accept any unsubstantiated accusation that comes down the pike... or you could know more of the truth than what you are posting... two very simple and obvious alternatives. there are more, but as an example, i have grown up around masons, my dad, my uncle, my grandfather, great grandfather, great great grandfather, god father are all masons. I grew up around a group of honorable men, and as an adult, discovered that what all these good men had in common was that they were masons...



We actually have nothing to fear, but it is plain from your post that you do fear masons, becasue we do not reveal all that we do to you. When was the last time you sat in on a board meeting of Shell Oil, or US Steel, or the National Security Agency, or Ford Motor company, or... ignorance and xenophobia do not become you... fear of the unknown is common, but an intelligent person moves forward, and acts upon the history.

Masonry has an over 600 year history of service, charity and of making good men better. 28 totally free hospitals in the US and Canada are but a single example...



Or to trust you, who posts unsupporatble slanders? Why would anyone trust you, posting over the top rhetoric without a shred of example to back it up? Sorry, old son, but as a mason, I can point to the good and honorable men that make up my fraternity, and the good we have done... you can't point to anything other than baseless rhetoric.



Hahahahaha... so, do you consider Al Quaida members to be upright moral and honorable world citizens??? I don't care what they think, that is totally off the point. I noted that anything a group of killers without souls hates has GOT to be good.




Excellent, but if you are not new to these types of discussions, you would know that proof and examples go a lot further than emty rhetoric...



Sure you meant to offend... that is the raison d'etre of your post... and I don't care if you take my word or not, nor, do I think, do any of us. We will continue to post facts and truth, and you can post empty rhetoric... lets see who the reading public believes.

It's difficult to take anyone at their word these days, especially on the Internet. Thankfully, history has documented the facts, and they can be verified through unbiased sources.
For example, Necros' statements concerning Nazism are pure bunk. We know that the Nazi Party banned Masonry in the mid 1930's, and that Masons were arrested, most of whom were Gentiles. The Nazi anti-Masonic edict was carried on in all countries occupied by the Axis Powers, but most especially those occupied by the Germans.
SS Reichsofficer Dietrich Shwarz authored "Freemasonry Ideology", which was officially adopted by the Nazi Party as its formal program concerning Masonry, and is still in print in English translation. The book explains that Freemasonry is by nature incompatible with National Socialism, and must be abolished. The arguments used by the Nazis against Freemasonry are similar, and often identical, to the ones used by Necros.

A brief synopsis of the Nazi's anti-Masonic program, and their persecutions of Freemasons, can be read here at the website for the Wiesenthal Center:

motlc.wiesenthal.com...

The Center of Holocaust and Genocide Studies also details the Nazis' anti-Masonic campaigns here:

www.chgs.umn.edu...< br />
Fiat Lvx.

Hold on , there is a difference between propaganda and just plain facts.

Do you not find it strange that each Mason , displays a fact then supports it with reference's to other sources to prove the point . Yet when you view the anti position it usually exhibits just rhetoric.

I give you the words of Adolf Hitler himself , and you say Propaganda ??

When does fact become propaganda ?

Surely you could have come up with a better analogy than that. A car salesman is trying to sell you something.
Freemasons aren't trying to sell you anything. They aren't trying to get you to join their Order. If you research properly, you will find that Freemasonry is honourable, but if your negative beliefs about us are based on lies, then it can only be natural that we should defend ourselves and our Fraternity.

This doesn't mean that Freemasonry is the total and utter be all and end all - Freemasons are human beings with all their flaws after all. We aren't superhumans or conceited fools. Just ordinary men. When you write that you don't like Freemasonry based on what we know are falsities, then what is better? That we tell you the truth or that we let you carry on believing and hating through a lie?


We aren't selling our Order - all we are doing is telling the Truth.

I can't believe people are still pumping out the antimasonic BS, but here you are... historic eveidence shows that the forget me not was indeed used by the fraternity. The reason the Gestapo did not get it was that NO ONE TOLD THEM. It was a secret, n'cest pas?

As for screwed over, you keep writing that, but have to date produced nothing to document or prove that but rhetoric, and your history here is hardly one that would engender blind acceptance. You mind providing names, and occurrences?

I assume since you haven't that you can't, which is hardly surprising, since there is nothing behind your accuations but psychosis... yours.

As i said i have trouble believing either one of the propaganda sites. As far as the anti-mason position, i take them with the same grain of salt that i do people in the masons.

There is always just enough fact in propaganda to make it believable to those being subjected to it.

Just as i'm sure the spin room of presidential debates can give me alot of facts about either candidate, quote different websites and other materials they pulled their facts from, but i'd be a fool to trust any of them to tell me anything more than their version of the truth, which is usually twisted to make them look good.

Depending on which website or show i watched, either side won the debates, and each side presented their own "facts" to support their position. No offence personally intended, but your facts about mason history feel more like a spin room recap, than truth.

Feel free to jump on me for having my own opinions and accuse me of slander when there was none, as you did before. It shows what kind of men you are.


[edit on 27-10-2004 by billyevil]

That last part was rich. I could ask anyone who has ever been screwed over by the masons what they think.............

Except i don't know anyone who has.

From the sounds of your ranting, they have a list of everyone in the world, a checklist, and sopend their lives, examining each name, finding that person, and doing some nefarious or wicked to them....for what purpose?

Well, sorry. I have lived my life, have come into contact with freemasons, and so far, well...........no screwing over! Nowaking up in the middle of the night with robed men over me chanting incantations to satan to curse me with sterility or baldness. I havent found myself being followed around by masons in black suits with walkie talkies trying to blow up my car or convince people not to hire me!

So Im not exactly sure when i am going to get this big whammy you say everyone gets sooner or later, but either they simply havent got around to me, are currently planning to get me, or youre full of BS.

So far, most people I know of who have anything to say about the masons assume its a social club for guys to golf, trade stock tips, wear funny hats, and do charity work. the only people I am aware of that thin Freemasons are out to eat your children and worship satan usually live in Unibomber sheds.

But its a well known fact Hitler and the nazis hated Masons, and still do. I am trying to remeber what bigot nut cult on the web whose site i read, but its one of those Aryan nation types who live in the woods and marry their sisters who said something like:

Democracy is an evil lie of the Jew. Just look at America, all the founding fathers were freemasons, and they are in cahoots with the jew to create a mongrelized new world order.

Most white supremecists and NEO Nazis today believe that Free masons are the Lackeys of the jew and work with them.

Not a sentiment for group that supposedly supports Adolf hitler.

By the way, the Thule society did not "offshoot" from freemasonry. Thule was an interesting mix of the Golden dawn, germanic mysticism, Blatvsky's rantings, Aryan spiritualism, and other things. They may have taken some ideas from free masonry, as early Thule members might have been renegade masons, but they were not created nor supported BY the masons.

There were many Christians active in the nazi party, is Christianity also a part of it?