Sandy Hook: Anomalies Persist

Sandy Hook: Anomalies Persist

As the weeks go on with no “official story” out of Newtown one wonders how long one should wait before bringing to light inconsistencies so obvious and confounding in an event with the potential to affect the way in which every one of us (in N.A. at least) lives our lives.

While we wait, new anomalies are being discovered…and created…daily.

Case in point.

Quotes made to CBS by Lt. Vance

abcnews.go.com...

"There are many, many witnesses that need to be interviewed," Vance said. "We will not stop until we have interviewed every last one of them."

"Any interviews with any children will be done with professionals...as appropriate," Vance said. "We'll handle that extremely delicately when the time arises."

Contrast the clear and unambiguous meaning of those statements with this equally unambiguous statement.

Made to the Courant posted Dec 29.

www.courant.com...

There are no plans to recreate what happened inside the school or to interview any of the students who survived, police say.

To say that statement is 180 degrees apart from Lt. Vance’s original quotes would be an understatement.
To say the change is completely unqualified…is absolutely undeniable.

If the machinery of governmental and private industry wishes to begin grinding to life on the basis of this event and if that industry contains within it the ability to change my life in profound and unforeseeable ways, then I have every right to expect to be able to question the event should it be required.

That time has come and I’d like some help getting some answers.

I am not web savy and these initial anomalies are of such a nature.

I’m going to focus on digital inconsistencies to start with but I am also at a loss to explain how one could not be intrigued by the study in human nature we’ve seen unfold on our television screens.

To say that we can’t possibly know how people will react in a situation like that is absurd. To say we have no basis for examining the behaviors of survivors and family is to deny the existence of the study and treatment of PTSD or the entire fields of trauma counseling and human behavior.

That said…I’m not your dad. The TaC for this site are easily found and it is expected that you will take the time to read and follow them to better facilitate stimulating and theoretical discussions.

#1 Victoria Soto’s FaceBook Page

We all know the story. Victoria Soto’s sister created a web page. It apparently was online with the word R.I.P. in the address 4 days prior to the shooting.

There is a thread about it here that moderation has solved for us.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I find it highly unusual to read on that edited thread that moderation feels examining available information and drawing a conclusion is a symptom of gullibility…but taking one person’s word for something isn’t.

Regardless, by itself, it would mean very little.

#2 Dawn Hochsprung’s Witness Report

In this post I provide a link to the original Newtown Bee article with her statement made to the Newtown Bee after she had been reportedly killed.

Notice the cache date 2012-12-13

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I am still waiting for an answer as to how this could be possible.

#3 Photo Anomalies

In this post I share 2 pictures from the Newtown Bee archives.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Notice the dates in the address bar…

newtownbee.com/Archives/2012/12-December/Images/2012-12-14__11-05-25Image1762x600.JPG

newtownbee.com/Archives/2012/12-December/Images/2012-12-14__11-05-25Image2800x534.JPG

newtownbee.com...

newtownbee.com...

As yet I have no explanation for this anomaly.

A poster on another site offered this regarding the photos. I am unsure how to verify his contention.

They are still live on the Newtown Bee web server. Load the images in Firefox and right-click and click "View Image Info". A new small window opens. Now in there click the GENERAL icon and notice the data "Modified: Friday, December 14, 2012 8:15:29 AM". This is the exact time and date that the image was uploaded to the web server. Yes, an hour and 15 minutes PRIOR to the incident taking place.

Yes, I did check and their server is indeed in the same timezone and in Conn.

#4 Conflicting, (and at times, bizarre) Witness Testimony.

This is Veronique Pozner, the mother of Noah.

forward.com...

Veronique drove at 80 miles per hour to the school, praying that her car’s faulty engine would hold up. The streets near Sandy Hook Elementary were so congested that she parked at a nearby Subway sandwich shop and ran to the firehouse, where other parents had gathered.

Now contrast her description with this.

www.hlntv.com...

The brother of one of the students at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut, tells HLN affiliate WTNH that his sister heard gunshots and screams over the intercom. He also says he saw police officers bringing children out of the school who were bloody and pale.

But listen to what he says...

"My neighbor called us and said, "We heard gunshots...we heard sirens." "So my Mom and I, we hopped in the car, and went straight to the school, to check, to see what was going on."

They hopped right in the car and went straight to the school. Precisely the same thing Mrs. Pozner did, and the response teams were already enroute, based on the above quote.

The reporter then asks him to explain what happened. And he says...

"Well, before, when we first arrived there, there was not a lot of security to, uh, guard and there were 3 children that came out, one of them was, had a very bloody face. It was a very violent scene."

“There were some parents trying to keep security going...but...it was very messy, yes.”

Parents providing security?

Police were carrying out bodies...but there wasn't much security?

And all of this from an un-sourced witness.

Finally…and perhaps most shocking…the claim that…

#5 Families Were NOT ALLOWED to See the Bodies of Their Deceased Children

Gilles Rousseau

www.huffingtonpost.ca...

Her Canadian-born father, Gilles Rousseau, told Radio-Canada that he wanted to see his daughter's body but was informed by authorities that it would not be possible.

"They told me, 'You can't see (the body),'" Gilles Rousseau told Radio-Canada, the French-language CBC. "Because most people he shot, it was two or three shots in the face, point-blank."

And the family of Grace McDonnell

I would have used the actual interview from CNN but I can’t find one on their site which hasn’t had the comments editted out.

Comments at the 8:40 mark

www.youtube.com...

Anderson Cooper: It's got to be hard not to actually have been able to see her...

Lynn McDonnell: Well...at first I thought that and I had questioned maybe wanting to see her but then I thought she was just so, so beautiful……..

According to Wiki

en.wikipedia.org...

The Federal Trade Commission, established in 1914 under president Woodrow Wilson as a government agency to investigate and eliminate unfair and deceptive practices in business, enacted the Funeral Rule on April 30, 1984, and amended it effective 1994. The Funeral Rule was designed to protect consumers by requiring that they receive adequate information concerning the goods and services they may purchase from a funeral provider.

All funeral providers must comply with The Funeral Rule.

U.S. persons, under The Funeral Rule, are not required to use a funeral home to conduct the viewing or visitation.

You don’t even have to use a funeral home for the viewing yet people weren’t being allowed to see their families remains?

I don’t care if this happened 2 times or 22 times. I find it utterly astounding. I would like someone to show me the US law that would allow authorities to do this…or a case where it’s happened before.

At this point I want to make it clear that I have made no speculations, suggestions or accusations and I would appreciate it if you would take the time to consider that prior to posting.

These are factual, viewable, verifiable anomalies.

I…and many others…would sincerely appreciate some answers…or at least the opportunity to look for them.

What about the families of the deceased adults? Were they allowed to view the bodies? Do we have evidence of their services?

Originally posted by thesmokingman
What about the families of the deceased adults? Were they allowed to view the bodies? Do we have evidence of their services?

I have not run across any other info in regards to the adults...just Lauren Rousseau.

This topic will get you censored around here, political correctness is running high on this story never mind the weirdness and multitude of anomalies so tread lightly.

Originally posted by Chai_An
This topic will get you censored around here, political correctness is running high on this story never mind the weirdness and multitude of anomalies so tread lightly.

I wouldn't call it political correctness... I'd call it emotional sensitivity in a rather different situation for how close to 'home' some connected to this 'live', so to speak. As well as just a general awareness of the sheer nature, numbers and horrible fate of the victims. P.C. sure isn't a passing factor across my mind, personally, for how I react on some of the threads lately.

In fairness, this one isn't near the speculative and reckless that I think some have been...except for the points abut viewing.. Err... That's more than a bit cold to point out and highlight.

What is there to view, to be outright frank and blunt about this, when what is there for remains aren't even human in appearance anymore to look at ....and are so badly destroyed by traumatic injury after multiple close gunshots, it's impossible for even a good funeral home to make things look right?

Should anyone view...what this describes...as the image they would NEVER...EVER...EVER..be able to get out of their head? I mean these parents would die in old age with that image still carried daily after seeing it, I'd bet on it......if it didn't screw them up far sooner. Just my two cents as I head off.

I would like some clarification on how the school was evacuated and when.

You'd think this would be straightforward, and yet, we have been told that an
automated phone call told parents to pick up their children at the Fire Dept.

This is indeed what there were drills instructing, also. But, I have read posts and
articles here telling me that almost none did. We had kids being taken to the police
department, the fire department, a school board office building, and other locations
contemplated, parents showing up at the school/crime scene, yet there is only a
single photo of 17 students to represent the whole documentation of the evacuation
process! Despite the fact there were media helicopters overhead and the same Newtown
Bee reporters on the scene who managed to capture the one photo.

This must have prooved very frustrating to parents told to report to the school to perhaps arrive
there and find their child sent elsewhere by some as yet unknown means.
There is certainly no evidence of some 1,000 vehicles around the Fire Dept.

Speaking of photo video evidence, though we are told there were cameras in the school,
no photo still or footage to prove Adam Lanza was in the school or the shooter.

reply to post by swansong19


Regarding the time stamp on the picture. Did you check to find out if the newspaper is owned by a company that owns more than one daily? Or perhaps other media? Maybe the picture was sent somewhere out West and someone in a different time zone uploaded the picture. Like maybe there was an editor in another time zone that uploaded the picture.

Also I actually read that funeral home law yesterday. I think what the law is referring to is that you have a choice not to use a funeral home. There was a long list of certain things and ways that funeral homes have to treat their customers. The laws became necessary because of abuses by the homes. But what I did notice in those regulations was that the funeral home must allow you to view the body if you request so. I don't know what the laws are for the Coroner in Connecticut I tried googling myself and was unable to find any answers to that question. My suspicions are that LE are manipulating the families of the victims and encouraged them that they did not want to see the bodies.

Anyway, those were my thoughts about those two issues.

I do believe something smells but I don't want to personally reach for something that is not there.

reply to post by swansong19

newtownbee.com/Archives/2012/12-December/Images/2012-12-14__11-05-25Image1762x600.JPG

There is one possibility. That would be the folder name. Not the file name.

Great thread, and one of the more thought out.

When I first heard about the shooting, I didn't actually react. I was already grieving over a violent family death a few days prior, and there was a murder up the street from me the same day/morning. In a city called Sandy. Believe it or not.
I don't know if I was just numb to the idea of more violent deaths, or what. But I also refused to watch any news or read about it until a week or so later. And before I read the articles, I saw the photos that are being mass circulated. I still, to this day don't believe the stories being told to the public. In my gut, it didn't strike an alarm with me, I didn't feel it was real, and I still don't. I even commented to my husband that I felt like a bad person not feeling sad about it.
I even avoided all talk on ATS regarding the incident....I didn't want to read the conspiracies until I finally read it all for myself. I haven't done the digging like everyone has... I just flat out don't believe what we have been told.

Oh....clock just chimed twelve. ....so Happy New Year.

reply to post by PaperbackWriter


I have thought about this also. Maybe LE told the media no more pictures of the students being evacuated?? Maybe the children whose classrooms were towards the back of the school were taken out the back way to the fire station?? I do believe that area where the shooting took place was where the first grade, and kindergarten classes were and perhaps the older children were in classrooms out towards the gym area.

Another discrepancy is the number plate , looks like the back and front plate is different.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


I was googling around about the viewing of bodies yesterday and I found a couple of studies. Here is a snippet from one of them:

Results For those who had the option, decisions about seeing the body varied. Some wanted someone else to identify the body, because they feared how it might look or preferred to remember their relative as they had been in life. Those who had wanted to see the body gave various reasons beyond the need to check identity. Some felt they ought to see the body. Others felt that the body had not lost its social identity, so wanted to make sure the loved one was “being cared for” or to say goodbye. Some people wanted to touch the body, in privacy, but the coroner sometimes allowed this only after the postmortem examination, which made relatives feel that the body had become police property. Seeing the body brought home the reality of death; it could be shocking or distressing, but, in this sample, few who did so said they regretted it.

Conclusions Even after a traumatic death, relatives should have the opportunity to view the body, and time to decide which family member, if any, should identify remains. Officials should prepare relatives for what they might see, and explain any legal reasons why the body cannot be touched. Guidelines for professional practice must be sensitive to the needs and preferences of people bereaved by traumatic death. The way that relatives refer to the body can be a strong indication for professionals about whether the person who died retains a social identity for the bereaved.

Link

I cannot say how I would feel personally in this situation. I have never lost anyone that close to me.

Originally posted by GrantedBail
reply to post by swansong19

 

Regarding the time stamp on the picture. Did you check to find out if the newspaper is owned by a company that owns more than one daily? Or perhaps other media? Maybe the picture was sent somewhere out West and someone in a different time zone uploaded the picture. Like maybe there was an editor in another time zone that uploaded the picture.

Those particular thoughts had not occured to me...although the poster I quoted in my post did say that the server time was the same as Newtown local time. As mentioned I haven't been able to find a way to navigate to the place on the site where the picture is located. I have the address and can go there directly but have been unable to find the series of links or search commands to get me there from the home page.

Originally posted by CeeRZ
reply to post by swansong19

 

There is one possibility. That would be the folder name. Not the file name.

Great thread, and one of the more thought out.

That thought had occured to me...but I haven't been able to confirm or deny this.

Thank you. I appreciate it. I wasn't even sure if I should risk posting it.

Happy New Year to you, as well. Accept my condolences on your loss.

Here's hoping 2013 provides much needed hope and renewal.

And still...

Things change. I might say, "i have no plan to eat chicken tonight" and mean it, but then decide, "i think i'll have chicken tonight." Is that a conspiracy? No. Investigations change. That is their nature, and it's kinda like the scientific method. "We don't plan on trying this" but eventually "we need to try this." What with the many variables surrounding what happened, things constantly change in the investigation.

Witness testimony not the same?? That is rarely consistent and truly reliable. That is proved. People "see" different things during stress and emotional incidents. People's recollection are tainted by what they hear, etc.

Even the crap about media reports. I know media are supposed to check sources, etc before reporting, but when something like this happens, the intent to get information out as quickly as possible makes the information prone to error because it so quickly surfaces and is reported. That's not excusing it, but it doesn't make it a conspiracy.

That's one thing that gets me, when people say "well, this was reported...THEN...this was reported." Take a step back man, and think about information gathering. How will they KNOW anything to start? Their sources are so many (and once again goes back to fact checking, which in such a fast paced and chaotic scenario they might neglect) and there is so much information, to call out a conspiracy because every little bit doesn't initially add up is just unprofessional.

I'm not saying there aren't some fishy things (such as the guns used), but picking out every "it don't match" factoid is just tiring.

I don't frequently hop on board with modern conspiracy theories, because usually they are just speculation. This case however offers many inconsistencies and downright contradictory evidence, and we actually have evidence that the police were either lying, or had no clue what was going on. Either way, that is not good. I am not sure what the deal is regarding censorship, but I assume that there were some users who were crossing the line regarding their comments. And since this is such a fresh event, and involved such young children, I will be a bit more tolerant of censorship...IF it is employed for these reasons. But censoring comments that are in bad taste is completely different from censoring legitimate questions or information that has been presented in a politically correct manner.

From what I have pieced together, it is obvious to me that had anyone else been involved in the shooting that day they would have had absolutely zero trouble when attempting to exit the school and flee the scene. And there is also eyewitness testimony that directly points to there being more than one gunman in the building that day. The "bad" investigation on the part of the police, coupled with witness statements and inconsistencies all around the board is what gets that little voice whispering to me that something is not on the up and up, as it were, in this case. It just seems like something is being hidden.

And we still do not have an "official" version of events from the police department. I could be wrong, but is it not possible that this time could be utilized to disseminate all of the information that has come out so far, in an attempt to create an "official" version of events?

reply to post by swansong19


It appears that the Newtown Bee is owned by the Smith Family and has been since 1881? I couldn't find anything else out about the ownership.

reply to post by CeeRZ


Sorry to hear what you've been going through, this is a bad time.
Your post resonated with me. My family has had much personal tragedy of sisters, brothers,
son's, daughters, killed due to car accidents and murder, and hospital malpractice not once but
twice in 22 years. I've seen and known first hand the look of pain, sorrow, confusion, anger and
grief on many faces. It's what is truly missing from these tales. I could understand that maybe
a person here or there was stoic and unemotional, but, almost every person from kids to parents to
co-workers reveal none of what I know and you know the toll of tragedy to be.

reply to post by VimanaExplorer


Yes, that is a different plate than the other one I saw when the car was on the flatbed. So very strange.