The following are 75 U.S. economic numbers from 2012 that are almost too crazy to believe...

reply to post by tauristercus


All I can say about this is Wow.

Amazing numbers to say the very least.

Originally posted by radpetey

Originally posted by Maskander
Most of the list is the same fact stated over and over, just in a different way. obvious agenda bias, thus, not credible, nor worth my time.

Not worth your time......are you in lala land??

These are the cold hard facts.

Welcome to the new America!!

Obama was not kidding when he said, " I will fundamentally change America."

And apparently 51% of America agree with what he is doing

Pathetic

First let me say that i have no illusions about America beings in the pits. But, are you certain those are the cold hard facts as you put it? Did you fact check the numbers on each of these? Has anyone? Again, I'm not saying these numbers can't be accurate giving the road we're heading.. but anyone can put together a list of #.

Originally posted by radpetey

Originally posted by Maskander
Most of the list is the same fact stated over and over, just in a different way. obvious agenda bias, thus, not credible, nor worth my time.

Not worth your time......are you in lala land??

These are the cold hard facts.

Welcome to the new America!!

Obama was not kidding when he said, " I will fundamentally change America."

And apparently 51% of America agree with what he is doing

Pathetic

They may be facts, but they are facts lacking perspective - or being used together to skew perspective far from the story the facts - if understood for what they really are - would be telling. Facts used to make the ignorant believe the US is undergoing "certain collapse", when anyone with an inkling of actual knowledge knows that the US economy has been, and is strengthening steadily, and that we've seen far worse in our past than where we are right now. The people I speak with who believe the doom and gloom are the people who think the US always used to be this place where yoy would fill out an application, with little to no accomplishment, record of success, social skills, intelligence, etc, and magically get a wonderful, high-paying job.

Yes, in the 90's we had something of an economic golden age, and everything was peachy-keen, but the next decade, our economy fell from grace. The contrast hurts, I get it, but we're already bouncing back from near-collapse. Remember Japan's lost decade? It took them 10 years to make the comeback we've made in 4. They would give up their iPads to have had the turnaround we've experienced thus far. Every single meaningfu, sign points to the US economy recovering more quickly than anyone coukd have expected. If we make it back to where we were in 2007 by 2022, we should consider it a great success, and a testament to the strength of the US system and people. Right now, its looking like we'll probably get there by 2018.

What the heck is everyone crying about anyway?

Originally posted by radpetey

Originally posted by Maskander
Most of the list is the same fact stated over and over, just in a different way. obvious agenda bias, thus, not credible, nor worth my time.

Not worth your time......are you in lala land??

These are the cold hard facts.

Welcome to the new America!!

Obama was not kidding when he said, " I will fundamentally change America."

And apparently 51% of America agree with what he is doing

Pathetic

You can't spell fundamentally without "fund" So no I don't disagree with the fact that he has spent a lot, I'm completely aware of it... But Todays dollars are worth a lot less because of the hiacking of our economy and money supply by the federal reserve and the military industrial complex. So the money obama is spending now is nothing compared to the money bush spent on those wars, and don't throw numbers at me from the bush era when it comes to contracting, money spent etc... because they are just not true.

Looks like everything is working out perfectly



... for the elite and those that despise the IDEA of America.

reply to post by tauristercus


Food stamps? Imagine that doesn't exist, it would be, maybe, similar to 1929, when nobody took care of...

reply to post by dogstar23


So....please explain why most countries have ceased buying up our Gov't issued bonds???

And why you are at it.....please explain why these same countries are snatching up gold(not on paper, but tangible bars) at an unprecedented rate??

And then, why is the Fed, who deals in the U.S.dollar, taking up the bond slack that the other countries have deemed too risky, at a rate of 95 billion a MONTH??



I love America!! I have loved this country since I have been crappin' in my diapers. Therefore, the anti does not apply to me. But dude........!! or dudette, "THE WRITING IS ON THE WALL."

Originally posted by MaskanderI agree, bush spent too much money.

But Obama is OUT OF CONTROL......with no end in site!

Originally posted by radpetey

Originally posted by Maskander
Most of the list is the same fact stated over and over, just in a different way. obvious agenda bias, thus, not credible, nor worth my time.

Not worth your time......are you in lala land??

These are the cold hard facts.

Welcome to the new America!!

Obama was not kidding when he said, " I will fundamentally change America."

And apparently 51% of America agree with what he is doing

Pathetic

You can't spell fundamentally without "fund" So no I don't disagree with the fact that he has spent a lot, I'm completely aware of it... But Todays dollars are worth a lot less because of the hiacking of our economy and money supply by the federal reserve and the military industrial complex. So the money obama is spending now is nothing compared to the money bush spent on those wars, and don't throw numbers at me from the bush era when it comes to contracting, money spent etc... because they are just not true.

edit on 25-12-2012 by Maskander because: (no reason given)

edit on 25-12-2012 by Maskander because: (no reason given)

Originally posted by dragnik
reply to post by tauristercus

 

Food stamps? Imagine that doesn't exist, it would be, maybe, similar to 1929, when nobody took care of...

That is a Very good point.

Does anyone know when the free food program kicked in??

If you doubt that the U S Federal Government is and has been utterly out of control and has sucked the life blood of its people, our industry, their labor; take a quick watch at this video:


What this video points out and what those of you may have noticed from aspects of the up close and personal world around you is that our enemies and the enemies of the American Way Of Life have in every direction been destroying the foundations our country morally, ethically, ethnically and economically.

The worst aspect of these facts are, it is too late to reverse what I see as a Luciferian New World Order where we are all slaves and subservient to the State; the damage is too deep and widespread. All of this is consistent with the vision of a One World Government written of in the Communist Manifesto by Karl Marx. They will fail because their vision and methods are a violation and in conflict not just with what works but the Laws of Nature.

Prognosis? Wars, Rumors of Wars, the coming World War and the annihilation of a large percentage of the world population, which is the ultimate goal of the Masters/Owners of this planet.

What can you do about it? Sorry but most of you can do nothing and those of us who have a plan aren't going to tell but leaving the USA and getting as far from the influences of these devils in order to not be pulled down with them is the rough.

Originally posted by MajorKarma
If you doubt that the U S Federal Government is and has been utterly out of control and has sucked the life blood of its people, our industry, their labor; take a quick watch at this video:

Good post......I rest my case

Wow, bummer...

Anyways...I'm paying all my bills, have some cash in the bank, I have a great job. I'm thoroughly enjoying the full extent of my 2nd amendment rights too. Did I mention a wonderful family and great partner too?

The American Dream was fine as long as there were new frontiers to exploit. When they ran out, America expanded as an Empire. Well, that is close to running out too. As long as America holds on to its fundamental ethos of a "race to the top", "devil take the hindmost" and "maximize profit" it will either have to conquer the world or head into outer space.

Realistically, the endgame of the American Dream is economic cannibalism at home, and that is what is happening.

Who are the cannibals?

The Military Industrial Complex is the number one cannibal in the American economy. Military spending in America is a gigantic con game.

The real issue in America is that Americans have to get their legislators to start doing business on their behalf, with business.

Americans cannot bail out big business without receiving equity in return. They cannot allow American corporations to run abroad looking for tax havens.

Recently, Gerard Depardieu, a French actor, who made his money in the French cinema, said that he was moving to Belgium for tax reasons. What the French government should do is levy an extra tax on any film that Depardieu makes in order to cover the tax shortfall created by his departure.

That's a silly example, and very small potatos, but governments should be cracking down on corporate welfare bums and corporate tax slackers.

Any American corporation that thinks it can thumb its nose at the government elected by its most important customers should have its incorporation papers revoked and its American assets impounded and should be refused permission to do business in the United States until it starts to act like any other law abiding, civic minded American citizen. Period.

Originally posted by ipsedixit
The real issue in America is that Americans have to get their legislators to start doing business on their behalf, with business.

Americans cannot bail out big business without receiving equity in return. They cannot allow American corporations to run abroad looking for tax havens.

The Government should not be bailing out any Corporation, bank, or international bank whatsoever.

Nor outsourcing jobs for cheaper labor. If the unemployment numbers are so low, then why do that? Or why allow illegals from any Country to come here and take what jobs are left? It's all a load of bs to spread the gap between the rich and the poor. Uneducated sheople also help out a lot when you're swindling a Nation, so maybe that's it.

Also, I doubt a Republican will ever win the Oval office in the USA again after amnesty is granted by Obama. Not that it matters when both parties are controlled by the international banksters.

Not sure if you meant Corporations, or individuals? Internationalism is the root of the problem here because this is what you end up with. Course, if the spending was not so out of control, Tax loop holes would not be such a bad thing to a certain degree. I am not sure what the answer is though cause it's a mess.

Recently, Gerard Depardieu, a French actor, who made his money in the French cinema, said that he was moving to Belgium for tax reasons. What the French government should do is levy an extra tax on any film that Depardieu makes in order to cover the tax shortfall created by his departure.

Disagree with you here. You can't punish someone for wanting to move to another Country. However, any films made in France, the taxes should be calculated under his French citizenship. Same for Hollywood idiots who move overseas but still make films here. Course, I don't know the current tax laws in regards to making films in one country, and hlding citizenship or multiple citizenships. I am not an accountant.

That's a silly example, and very small potatos, but governments should be cracking down on corporate welfare bums and corporate tax slackers.

It's the Politicians that have been payed and bought off that you gotta start with. They are the root of the problem because it's they who are allowing this to happen.

Any American corporation that thinks it can thumb its nose at the government elected by its most important customers should have its incorporation papers revoked and its American assets impounded and should be refused permission to do business in the United States until it starts to act like any other law abiding, civic minded American citizen. Period.

LMAO! Good luck with that. Of course there should be laws that to do business in The USA, you will be loyal to the USA, and that includes not moving your factories to China or Mexico. However, you're starting to sound a bit fascist by suggesting that their assets be impounded.

In my opinion my friend, International Capitalism, corrupt politicians and over spending are the culprits here. Oh and uh, I chopped up your post to respond to each paragraph, and not to annoy you because sometimes it annoys me. At the end of the day, I am not sure what the solution is, but over spending and lower taxes on individuals would be a great start. ~$heopleNation

I'm having a hard time figuring out who the bad guy is in this big list o' stats.

Are you implying the government is stealing your money? Or that deadbeats are stealing the governments money? Or that everything is Doom and Gloom? Too many boogeymen here.

I'll tell you this though: Food stamps don't give you enough money to eat steak dinners every night. They let you upgrade from Ramens to Kraft Mac n Cheese. They also give you that little bit of extra money (by deferring food costs slightly) so that maybe you can buy a toy for your kid, or use midgrade instead of regular. But seriously, it's not enough to survive on, and not enough to make it worth it to abuse, except in rare circumstances.

Unemployment. If you had a family and were the sole wage earner, and suddenly got laid off into an economy where you couldn't hope to get another job quickly that paid as much... you might find unemployment insurance to be a pretty nice thing to have. Sure, you have to pay into it on every check, but one day you might need it. And according to your statistics, a lot of people do.

Medicare. If you want to retire from a normal job, you cannot afford to do it without medicare. Period. It's there to help.

Cost. When you file your taxes this year, take a look at the itemized deductions. Specifically lines 4 and 6 on your W-2. You'll see that they don't really amount to much. Then look at State Tax Withheld. Included in that is your cost for Unemployment and Food Stamps, along with your state police, government, etc. That doesn't amount to much either.

What you should be concerned about is that Federal Tax. That doesn't cover social programs, that covers the military, and the CIA, and NSA, and every other 3-letter agency. Notice how much larger that number is.

By the way, if you get a refund, you are also getting the benefits of a social program. Think about that when you're buying that new tv. Or when you go to school, with a financing program provided by another social program. Or when you go to the doctor, which is covered by your employers benefits program, which is partially subsidized by yet another social program.

I guess in the Fox News world of Capitalism-YAY!, Socialism-EEK!... all these programs are bad and using 'taxpayer dollars'. But in the real world, where people have families to support, and volatile employment conditions, and dreams of one day not working... these things are a necessity. And the people who benefit them are not lazy or fraudulent. They could be anyone in your family. They could one day be you.

The social program system is not perfect, but it's way better than nothing. And contrary to what the media might have you believe, it is not costing you that much. I'd go so far as to say we're not paying enough, as long as there are starving children living in cardboard shelters. 'Socialism' is not the enemy. The needy are not the enemy. And in this case, the government is not the enemy. Statistical boogeymen are.

Originally posted by dogstar23

Originally posted by radpetey

Originally posted by Maskander
Most of the list is the same fact stated over and over, just in a different way. obvious agenda bias, thus, not credible, nor worth my time.

Not worth your time......are you in lala land??

These are the cold hard facts.

Welcome to the new America!!

Obama was not kidding when he said, " I will fundamentally change America."

And apparently 51% of America agree with what he is doing

Pathetic

They may be facts, but they are facts lacking perspective - or being used together to skew perspective far from the story the facts - if understood for what they really are - would be telling. Facts used to make the ignorant believe the US is undergoing "certain collapse", when anyone with an inkling of actual knowledge knows that the US economy has been, and is strengthening steadily, and that we've seen far worse in our past than where we are right now. The people I speak with who believe the doom and gloom are the people who think the US always used to be this place where yoy would fill out an application, with little to no accomplishment, record of success, social skills, intelligence, etc, and magically get a wonderful, high-paying job.

Yes, in the 90's we had something of an economic golden age, and everything was peachy-keen, but the next decade, our economy fell from grace. The contrast hurts, I get it, but we're already bouncing back from near-collapse. Remember Japan's lost decade? It took them 10 years to make the comeback we've made in 4. They would give up their iPads to have had the turnaround we've experienced thus far. Every single meaningfu, sign points to the US economy recovering more quickly than anyone coukd have expected. If we make it back to where we were in 2007 by 2022, we should consider it a great success, and a testament to the strength of the US system and people. Right now, its looking like we'll probably get there by 2018.

What the heck is everyone crying about anyway?

I will agree that many of the "facts" here lack perspective, but saying America has made a comeback is definitely not true. You mention Japan and it's lost decade. They really never came fully out of it and are on their way back down again. The US has printed it's way out of a depression, but that is only temporary. There are no more jobs than 4 years ago. The unemployment number has come down, because of how many people gave up looking for work. Even the MSM has admitted that. I would like to know exactly where the US has made a comeback in the 4 years like you say. Maybe the stock market, but they are hording cash. It isn't flowing out to lift the average unemployed worker. Household income has not risen since 2007 and is expected to go down further when the 2012 numbers come out. Inflation, while being staved off most recently by falling gas prices, is still well positive, so our dollar is buying less while we're making less of them. The gas excluded CPI is still rising though. I think you might have a disconnect between numbers like employment rate and consumer spending vs. per capita wages and buying power. I would also not take stock of GDP numbers that are heavily influenced by quantitative easing. That is a very low return on investment and has far worse implications down the line than people realize while this faux recovery continues.

Originally posted by ipsedixit
The Military Industrial Complex is the number one cannibal in the American economy. Military spending in America is a gigantic con game.

edit on 26-12-2012 by ipsedixit because: (no reason given)

By agency:
Combined discretionary and mandatory Social Security budget for 2012 was 829.2 billion dollars.
Combined discretionary and mandatory Defense budget for 2012 was 688.3 billion.

By function:
Social Security: 778.574 billion
National Defense: 716.300 billion


No further comment.

On a lighter note if we all lose faith in the dollar, it wont be worth anything and then we can just send everyone rubber checks! If we make it to the next presidential election with the US dollar still intact, I will eat my hat!
Then people think the preppers are crazy! I am going to get my ACME rubber hole to hide in for my birthday!

Originally posted by abecedarian
By function:
Social Security: 778.574 billion
National Defense: 716.300 billion

I think there is an essential difference between the spending on military items and the spending on what is lumped under social services (of all sorts).

I don't deny that military industries are important and that they contribute significantly to the economy, not only in the normal way of providing jobs and income for employees and connected industries, but also in the way that a strong military assists America in its foreign policy postures, which are always linked in turn to economic considerations. I'm not a military basher in that way. America needs a strong military and should have the best military affordable.

America also needs strong social services. I'm quoting myself from another thread, but social services are like lubrication in a society. They ease friction. The idea that social services are lost money, or money down the drain, couldn't be further from the truth. That money is recycled in the economy. Just like military spending.

The key difference is that the principal way that one sees a benefit from military spending is in the course of military action. To analyse the ramifications and results of military spending in a comprehensive way is something I'm not prepared to do. I haven't looked into it.

However, when the product you make is taken overseas, where a significant portion of it is destroyed (ammunition, employee man hours), or when it spends time sitting in a parking lot undergoing periodic trials and maintenance but mostly doing nothing, or when, and this is the most dangerous use of military hardware, when various stateside "make work" projects, (like drug interdiction, drone deployment, ramped up security, etc.) are invented, in order to justify military spending, projects that actually endanger the freedoms of Americans at home, then there is a problem. That's where we are now.

If one sector of the economy begins to cannibalize the rest of the economy, like a disease, like a parasitical growth, like the Military Industrial Complex, then of necessity, spending on social services will increase to take the pressure off parts of the economy suffering because of excessive military spending.

As good as it is to have the number one military in the world, there is a down side. North Korea has the number one military on the Korean peninsula. Is the US trying to emulate the North Koreans and increase military spending to an even bigger percentage of GDP? America could be like North Korea if it really wanted to. It could have a fantastic , almost sci-fi military, capable of projecting American power with impunity, globally.

Does America want that? Does America want to follow North Korea, but on a global scale?

I could have a Ferrari in my driveway if I was willing to commit heinous crimes to get it. Is that what America is doing?

A realistic analysis of the American economy, hunting for the cannibals, is beyond my competence, but I think military spending in the US is clearly in the cannibal category. It may not be the worst offender, but it strikes me that it is the easiest place to start cutting US spending. There is just no need to spend more than your next ten competitors combined, particularly when half of them are long time allies.