Is there a Mother?, page 1

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Topic started on 20-12-2012 @ 02:28 PM by DelayedChristmas

I was reading Genesis last night, and while reading the book, I came to verse 24 of chapter 2: "Therefore shall a man leave his father, and his mother and shall cleave to his wife, and they shall be one flesh."

Hmm, cleave sounds very romantic.

If you thought Shakespeare was the master of sexual puns, he aint got nothing on the bible. Where did this idea of father and mother come from? I say this idea of father and mother came from the heavenly realm; the cliche saying, "The visible arising from the invisible," seems appropriate in this context.

Going back to Genesis 1:25-26: "And God said, Let us make man according to our image and likeness, and let them have dominion over the fish of the seas, and over the flying creatures of heaven, and over the cattle and all the earth, and over all the reptiles that creep on the earth." 26 And God made man, according to the image of God he made him, male and female he made them.

God said Let US make man according to OUR IMAGE and LIKENESS... HMMM. Point A and Point B seem to align.

Some may interpret the US part of the sentence as God talking to the factions of the Trinity, but I think He was speaking to all of Heaven and its inhabitants.

I think verse 26 explains why the concept of a Mother is not shared in traditional Abrahamic theologies. "According to the image of God he made him." I think this fragment is a hint to the sense of patriarchal authority that is common within most beginning civilizations, especially Judaism. Male and female are equal, but it was determined to let the males rule the world during their brief sojourn just as Father made Himself be known as the Ruler to the Jewish people.

I think Mother stepped aside and did not let Herself be known as to not arise questions that the perspectives of the lower intellectual, typically blindly religious, men can not fathom.

Thoughts?

edit on 20-12-2012 by DelayedChristmas because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 20-12-2012 @ 02:32 PM by windword

reply to post by DelayedChristmas

There's something in the Talmud, I think, about the "Mother of Heaven" or the "Queen of Heaven".....not sure her title. God kept her from the sight of mankind so that they wouldn't blaspheme her.

I guess he's very protective and jealous of her reputation.

I'll see if I can find more on this.

reply posted on 20-12-2012 @ 02:36 PM by DelayedChristmas

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by DelayedChristmas

There's something in the Talmud, I think, about the "Mother of Heaven" or the "Queen of Heaven".....not sure her title. God kept her from the sight of mankind so that they wouldn't blaspheme her.

I guess he's very protective and jealous of her reputation.

I'll see if I can find more on this.

This would correlate with my sentence:
'I think Mother stepped aside and did not let Herself be known as to not arise questions that the perspectives of the lower intellectual, typically blindly religious, men can not fathom."
Will be looking forward to your findings.

reply posted on 20-12-2012 @ 02:40 PM by dollukka

Behind every man there is a woman

US and Our likeness.. some say its a genesis made by Aliens to create a man

reply posted on 20-12-2012 @ 02:47 PM by abeverage

You should be a Mormon

en.wikipedia.org...

reply posted on 20-12-2012 @ 02:57 PM by DelayedChristmas

Originally posted by abeverage
You should be a Mormon

en.wikipedia.org...

They have some good ideas, but I refuse to follow and accept their doctrines as truth for Protestant churches still have not broken away from the Roman Catholic church. They all have tidbits of truth, but you really got to have a trained eye. I take a Life of Pi-esque take on religions: Study different religions. Find out which ideas are ideal for me. Form my own philosophy. I, however, have 2 things that will never leave my side: God + Jesus Christ, although I do disagree with Christ's and Fathers antics sometimes.

I also don't like the small sect of Mormons that practice polygamy. I am a romanticist and believe that everyone was made with a pair, a soul mate. Huge supporter of monogamous relationships, whether it's straight or homosexual.

I did not know Mormon's held this belief... Very interesting.

edit on 20-12-2012 by DelayedChristmas because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 20-12-2012 @ 02:58 PM by Philodemus

Do you think that gender is part of the traits that the God(s) was imparting to the creation? Was His image not more just a reference to consciousness perhaps, rather than any physical traits? I just don't see God as being male. And I was raised reading the KJV my whole life. I know the pronouns they used when referring to "Him" but I was always under the impression that this was due to a case of useful metaphor by the man writing rather than it being a case of God actually being male. Just a thought.

reply posted on 20-12-2012 @ 03:03 PM by DelayedChristmas

Originally posted by Philodemus
Do you think that gender is part of the traits that the God(s) was imparting to the creation? Was His image not more just a reference to consciousness perhaps, rather than any physical traits? I just don't see God as being male. And I was raised reading the KJV my whole life. I know the pronouns they used when referring to "Him" but I was always under the impression that this was due to a case of useful metaphor by the man writing rather than it being a case of God actually being male. Just a thought.

I don't think the image was a reference to consciousness because I think I remember Genesis reads as God telling Heaven, paraphrased, Look man is like us and knows between good and evil, after Adam and Eve bit the fruit of knowledge.

If women were the rulers of the world, I think Mother would have shown herself to be the ruler.

edit on 20-12-2012 by DelayedChristmas because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 20-12-2012 @ 03:04 PM by Akragon

reply to post by DelayedChristmas

I had no idea you were interested in things outside the one book... First its buddha, now this?

Good for you my friend, i love to see people exploring other lines of thought outside of their religion...

Heres an interesting bit for you to consider...

And his thought performed a deed and she came forth, namely she who had appeared before him in the shine of his light. This is the first power which was before all of them (and) which came forth from his mind, She is the forethought of the All - her light shines like his light - the perfect power which is the image of the invisible, virginal Spirit who is perfect. The first power, the glory of Barbelo, the perfect glory in the aeons, the glory of the revelation, she glorified the virginal Spirit and it was she who praised him, because thanks to him she had come forth. This is the first thought, his image; she became the womb of everything, for it is she who is prior to them all, the Mother-Father, the first man, the holy Spirit, the thrice-male, the thrice-powerful, the thrice-named androgynous one, and the eternal aeon among the invisible ones, and the first to come forth.

www.gnosis.org...

reply posted on 20-12-2012 @ 03:04 PM by windword

reply to post by DelayedChristmas

It appears that early Hebrews believed that Yahweh had a consort, Asherah.

YouTube Link

reply posted on 20-12-2012 @ 03:12 PM by DelayedChristmas

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by DelayedChristmas

I had no idea you were interested in things outside the one book... First its buddha, now this?

Good for you my friend, i love to see people exploring other lines of thought outside of their religion...

Heres an interesting bit for you to consider...

And his thought performed a deed and she came forth, namely she who had appeared before him in the shine of his light. This is the first power which was before all of them (and) which came forth from his mind, She is the forethought of the All - her light shines like his light - the perfect power which is the image of the invisible, virginal Spirit who is perfect. The first power, the glory of Barbelo, the perfect glory in the aeons, the glory of the revelation, she glorified the virginal Spirit and it was she who praised him, because thanks to him she had come forth. This is the first thought, his image; she became the womb of everything, for it is she who is prior to them all, the Mother-Father, the first man, the holy Spirit, the thrice-male, the thrice-powerful, the thrice-named androgynous one, and the eternal aeon among the invisible ones, and the first to come forth.

www.gnosis.org...

You're pants are going to be wet if I decide to try and dismember the nonsensical Trinity doctrine.
Let's not get it confused: Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit do exist, but not in the typical 3 in 1 Godhead fashion as many say it is.

Also, I get very frustrated everytime you think I am thinking outside of box you place me in. Although I know you mean it as a compliment, to me it implies you haven't been really reading my threads and the thesis behind them, which is my fault for making the thesis too vague .

edit on 20-12-2012 by DelayedChristmas because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 20-12-2012 @ 03:16 PM by Akragon

reply to post by DelayedChristmas

Nah.... the trinity has no basis in scripture... unless you read into what is said...

Im just impressed that you're looking outside "the book"

Not something most Christians would be brave enough to do

Lol don't get frustrated... im only human

edit on 20-12-2012 by Akragon because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 20-12-2012 @ 03:20 PM by Klassified

reply to post by windword

Isn't it interesting, that when you really start digging, the Hebrews believe several things that aren't immediately apparent in the Old Testament we have.

Yahweh had a "consort".
Lillith was the first woman.
There were people before Adam and Eve.
Those before Adam and Eve didn't have souls.

Hmmm.

edit on 12/20/2012 by Klassified because: Grammar and spelling. What else

reply posted on 20-12-2012 @ 03:21 PM by abeverage

Originally posted by DelayedChristmas

Originally posted by abeverage
You should be a Mormon

en.wikipedia.org...

They have some good ideas, but I refuse to follow and accept their doctrines as truth for Protestant churches still have not broken away from the Roman Catholic church. They all have tidbits of truth, but you really got to have a trained eye. I take a Life of Pi-esque take on religions: Study different religions. Find out which ideas are ideal for me. Form my own philosophy. I, however, have 2 things that will never leave my side: God + Jesus Christ, although I do disagree with Christ's and Fathers antics sometimes.

I also don't like the small sect of Mormons that practice polygamy. I am a romanticist and believe that everyone was made with a pair, a soul mate. Huge supporter of monogamous relationships, whether it's straight or homosexual.

I did not know Mormon's held this belief... Very interesting.
edit on 20-12-2012 by DelayedChristmas because: (no reason given)

What if God is neither or both? Why does the creator have to be gendered? Perhaps a perfect beings is neither male nor female or is both male and female. So to experience duality and the nature of God but not be a God one must be divided into a sex. Just like a polar opposite sort of like the concept of the yin & yang. You talk about soul mate so to further that example when they are brought together both male and female they have the power to create and be complete as the yin & yang are complete and whole within a circle...

edit on 20-12-2012 by abeverage because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 20-12-2012 @ 03:22 PM by DelayedChristmas

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by DelayedChristmas

Nah.... the trinity has no basis in scripture... unless you read into what is said...

Im just impressed that you're looking outside "the book"

Not something most Christians would be brave enough to do

Lol don't get frustrated... im only human

edit on 20-12-2012 by Akragon because: (no reason given)

Well, the frustration is short lived as realization of the fault that comes back to me, which I take responsibility for. Now I am frustrated at myself! THANKS A LOT!!!

reply posted on 20-12-2012 @ 03:32 PM by DelayedChristmas

Originally posted by abeverage

Originally posted by DelayedChristmas

Originally posted by abeverage
You should be a Mormon

en.wikipedia.org...

They have some good ideas, but I refuse to follow and accept their doctrines as truth for Protestant churches still have not broken away from the Roman Catholic church. They all have tidbits of truth, but you really got to have a trained eye. I take a Life of Pi-esque take on religions: Study different religions. Find out which ideas are ideal for me. Form my own philosophy. I, however, have 2 things that will never leave my side: God + Jesus Christ, although I do disagree with Christ's and Fathers antics sometimes.

I also don't like the small sect of Mormons that practice polygamy. I am a romanticist and believe that everyone was made with a pair, a soul mate. Huge supporter of monogamous relationships, whether it's straight or homosexual.

I did not know Mormon's held this belief... Very interesting.
edit on 20-12-2012 by DelayedChristmas because: (no reason given)

What if God is neither or both? Why does the creator have to be gendered? Perhaps a perfect beings is neither male nor female or is both male and female. So to experience duality and the nature of God but not be a God one must be divided into a sex. Just like a polar opposite sort of like the concept of the yin & yang. You talk about soul mate so to further that example when they are brought together both male and female the have the power to create and be complete as the yin & yang are complete and whole within a circle...
edit on 20-12-2012 by abeverage because: (no reason given)

Very good questions and I don't want to appeal to circular logic, which would revolve around saying because the bible says so, the bible is God's word, God's word is infallible because the bible says so.

You bring up the point of the soul mate and you further explicate it as both male and female have the power to create and be complete as yin+yang.

I have said before, I think if the world was ruled by females, Mother would show Herself to be the authoritative source. Since this is not the case of this world, Father has shown to be the authoritative source and why this is because I don't know if the male ego can comprehend a greater being that bears the qualities that we see from females. I am not saying females are the lower gender, I am saying that people of those times thought that females were the lower gender and that was the social norm that was followed by most cultures.

God, as our preconceived notions dictate, is masculine. However, I think Father is equal to Mother, but because the way the earth was set up to be, the notion of equality is not shared so that when we come closer to the end of the age, we see the mistakes of the past and move forward to not make the same mistakes, i.e. thinking outside the box.

edit on 20-12-2012 by DelayedChristmas because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 20-12-2012 @ 03:36 PM by abeverage

reply to post by DelayedChristmas

The questions where (are) rhetorical, no need to answer them.

reply posted on 20-12-2012 @ 03:39 PM by DelayedChristmas

Originally posted by abeverage
reply to post by DelayedChristmas

The questions where (are) rhetorical, no need to answer them.

Ok, but as I look over my response, it seems as if I am appealing to my own form of circular logic -_- sorry for the bad responses, it's kind of brain wrecking and I just stumbled upon this notion recently and was too lazy to really formulate things out.

reply posted on 20-12-2012 @ 10:18 PM by godlover25

reply to post by DelayedChristmas

Cleave is English, Genesis was written in Hebrew,

Us symbolizes the Trinity and the Seven Spirits of the Most High,

Wisdom is the Spirit of God who is the Goddess of all Creation,

Why would you read the Bible only to mock its Author?

God bless

reply posted on 20-12-2012 @ 10:26 PM by windword

reply to post by DelayedChristmas

I can't think of a single religion or set of mythologies that don't include goddesses, outside of the Abrahamic ones. And now we see that ancient Hebrews did honor a goddess and the Virgin Mary is a carry over of goddess worship for Christians. I don't know about Islam and goddesses.

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