The mentally ill.

reply to post by Hefficide


Yup, they cut back our mental healthcare clinic for low income substantially.

Thanks for the replies, I will get to them as I can.

The point of this thread was to open up the conversation on an issue that we are all (I think) aware of. Whether it be genetic, environmental or social...we have some fellow citizens that are not doing so well.

I have watched and participated in many of the threads concerning yesterdays violence and absolute instant polarization on opinions...the knee jerk reactions...and the multiple offerings of possible solutions. I had not seen one yet addressing the underlying issue...mental illness...other than to eliminate them.

I personally believe it takes someone very sick to do what happened. I am not a medical professional so I can't even imagine what precursor "signs" might be exhibited. I don't know how you would deal with the "going postal" scenario.

As a Libertarian and a lover of freedom and rights, I wanted to step outside my own mental box and look at this from a completely different angle. My usual point of view would have been much harsher and all about freedom and preserving the Constitution. I still want to preserve the Constitution so in a sense, this is a compromise toward finding solutions that do not cause changes to it.

I know there are those that feel the Gov could use this as a means to still control firearms and ...that is true. Doctors could be compromised in such a way that only a very small percentage would ever get "approval".

I understand this is not a great answer...but it is an alternative...and it opens the dialogue to discussing the root problem here...which is, mental illness.

reply to post by zroth


I think you might be onto something there. For whatever reason, we have become a more violently minded society. Is it because we have lost our appreciation for the value of a human life? Is it because we are bombarded constantly with scenes of violence and decadent behavior? The TV, the movies and many of our video games seem to have systematically desensitized us. Was that on purpose or a gentle, cascading effect of what we as a society sought out for entertainment? Did someone do it to us or did we ask for it?

I'm want to have a completely open mind...yeah maybe to the threshold where my brains are trying to fall out. I do not want preconceived notions...that is not science. You cannot do true research if you already have an expectation of outcome.

Thanks for your point of view.

reply to post by Jeremiah65


Normal people cringe at the thought of shooting another person, it's why they invented and developed boot camp and such training. To make people just crazy enough to be able to kill, but not too crazy to follow orders.

I *think* I could kill someone if I really had to, but I felt really bad for weeks just shooting a drug addict scumbag with bird shot when he broke in....... So who knows really. I hope I never have to find out.

reply to post by Hefficide


Excellently stated Heff. We seem to ignore this issue and perhaps it is because it is "the dirty family secret" and no one wants to take that long hard look at themselves or their loved ones.

I can't add much to what you said there.

There is something broken...or at the least, terribly damaged. I look forward to different theories of the causes and the possible solutions to addressing what I personally see as a increasing human capacity for violence and the callousness of the observers when it does.

reply to post by wildtimes


I live in the Atlanta, GA. area. And I can assure you that the case, as I described above, is the rule and not the exception - in this city at least.

If any Atlanta area police are members, maybe they'll chime in. I know quite a few and they've become so disenchanted with the system here that they barely want to even deal with it. Here the most common result of taking anyone into an ER for a psych eval is to see that person released within a few hours, regardless of their mental state - with a simple form stating "consult your family doctor if symptoms persist". After awhile? The police don't even bother wasting their time. So dissociates and suicidal people are largely ignored here. Even in my suburb there are quite a few schizo-effective homeless who freely wander the streets, panhandling, dumpster diving, and very obviously in need of treatment. They are left alone. Nobody in government or law enforcement will even glance their way unless a violent crime is involved.

A few years back, there was a bit of a light shined upon this issue when a cook, at a local Waffle House ( about two miles from my home ) offered a homeless ( and mentally ill ) man $5.00 if he would "drink a shake" - one actually made from lye based dish soap. This made national news.. And this incident happened before our counties mental health budget was slashed.

In fact... our local mental health center has a sign on their door, and a message on their phone answering software - that clearly directs anyone with a crisis to contact the national crisis line - and not to seek help at any local hospitals ( all but one in this area are private hospitals - and the one public hospital is so deeply and financially troubled that it will only take patients from two local counties and nobody else ) nor at the clinic itself.

My knowledge here is first hand, as I have been involved with this clinic since 2003 and have not only witnessed, but also discussed these budget cuts with the staff and doctors there. Our local mental health clinic services a three county area and employs only ONE Doctor, with THREE nurse practitioners. The Doctor does not see patients nor does she visit the clinic any more, that I am aware of. In 9 years of both being a patient and volunteer at the clinic, I've met the actual Doctor ONE time. She may review cases by teleworking. But the only thing I see is that her name and DEA control number are really her only contribution to the clinic.

~Heff

reply to post by Daughter2

So many, many things wrong with this post....... 1. Most people who kill with guns are perfectly sane. 2. If you want to kill someone, you aren't going to have a problem with getting a gun illegally 3. What makes you think mental health professionals can properly determine if someone is violent? Look at all the bad cops at there - they all had some type of background check and assessment. 4. By having mental health professionals "approve" gun ownership, you basically allow the government to have any type of restriction on gun control they want to have without passing laws. All they would have to get is a few University level shrinks to issue guidelines in assessing gun ownership. To avoid getting their license pulled, all shrinks would have to follow this standard.

It's not just about the guns. If I seemed that way, I misrepresented my intentions. It's about violence...the causes, the effects and what can be done to address them. I wanted to put everything on the table for the purpose of getting an "as close to as possible"...fair and unbiased assessment.

Originally posted by caladonea


Where is the thread that you stated above?

I really think that all schools (everywhere) should have armed guards at every entrance and exit; and that going in and coming out of the schools; back packs etc. should be looked at and ID's checked.

I think you got the answer to where the mental illness farms came from so.

The idea of the enhanced security you speak is a fine idea. The problem that I see is it is not addressing the disease, only a symptom and that is violence. Yes that might make the schools safer, but it will more than likely just send the violence somewhere else.

reply to post by whyamIhere


Yes it is sad that innocence can be lost at such an early age now. I wish there was a grand and simple solution. I hope we can narrow down some ideas in here.

reply to post by seeker1963


Hmmm....from those descriptions, I would say that just about everyone is classified as crazy. That's not so refreshing to know!

reply to post by BritofTexas


Mental illness, like poverty, is something the average person does not want to see or be made aware of. I think they are truly offended when something happens and they are forced to see it. Therefore, they seek as many distractions as possible to be able to ignore it.

Originally posted by alfa1

Couple of issues to sort out.
1. Lots of mental illnesses get worse over time.
So you get the all clear this year and get guns. Two years later your condition is much much worse because of various life issues.
2 Lots of mental illnesses change from time to time.
Bad yesterday, feeling ok today while having the clearance. next week you're all crazy again.
3. Lots of people are perfectly all right until one day they "just snap". The "going postal" scenario.

I have somewhat tried to think of those things, but you're right.

I am very guilty of pointing out problems and then not having a decent solution. I have held my personal philosophy for years and it has and does serve me and mine just fine...however. I wanted to try to see things from a completely new perspective.

reply to post by ausername


I see where many people will disagree with my idea now. When put into the framework you described, it seems like a mighty mountain to scale.

I know there has to be a solution...I also feel that if we don't examine a problem and all the possible solutions, we never get very far or find the best solutions.

Originally posted by Iamschist
I think in addition to more and kinder help, we also need to make it more socially acceptable to have the label of mentally ill, so that people are more comfortable seeking help, and this does not keep being some families dirty little secret.

Denial is very much to blame with these shootings, all of them. There would not be such denial if it weren't so "bad" to be crazy.

That is an interesting thought. If people weren't afraid of "being labeled" they might be more willing to seek out help. We have "shamed" the mentally ill and cast them into the shadows since...well...who knows really...a very long time. Maybe if it got the same sympathy as cancer or heart disease...people would not be ashamed and try to hide it...thus not getting the help they truly need.

You have created the source for your own demise..


suck it up..

Enjoy the fruits of your liberal second ammendment.. Kids dead because your brainwashed asses need a gun coz of the self perpetuated arms race you have bought on yourselves and excuses to keep gun coz you are all giant cowards who hide behind them..


That is the WORLD view btw.. Not that it matters because the same will happen mext month.. But thats ok right?..

Morons

Interpretation of mentally ill is the problem. If anyone who takes antidepressants is considered mentally ill by a doctor than they will not be able to have a gun. I have studied antidepressants and know by changing the diet you can many times negate the need for them. Seems we are scavengers and need certain fermented foods to stay normal. So just because you have been labeled as having a little problem you and anyone else i your house can now not own a gun. This will be used against all of us, the medical industry is not coming out and telling us what to do so we don't need antidepressants. This will work well into disarming the country. I see it coming if we pass laws. So you get mad at your neighbor because he is doing something wrong and yell at him. He calls the police and they come and take your guns, charging you with something. Now your deceitful neighbor can get away with anything he wants. I see problems with this where deceitful people will prosper from it. They will have the guns and the good people won't

I find it stunning that my fellow Americans don't understand why violence is so prevalent in our society. Here's a couple of clues -

HOLLYWOOD & VIDEO GAMES

We have desensitized the masses to violence. It means nothing. It has become a "normal" facet of American life. Schwartzie blows away the bad guys (sorry Arnie) in Hollywood, kids blow away whomever by the dozens in their games then go do it in the Middle East when they hit 18.

We have nurtured our little murderers so carefully. Kept them warm. Fed them Cheetos. Taken the sting of gore out of war.

Oh, but I do go on.

That is all.

Hey,
How's it going?

Do sociopaths know they are sick?

I would say there is a good majority of these types holding public office. If these people cannot recognize their own faults, they will keep projecting faults upon people who are unlike themselves.

Not even a neurotypical is normal anymore?

So we have sociopaths telling us what normal is nowadays?

I thought part of maturity meant that one is able to address a personal fault and try to correct it, to stop repeating the same mistake- one that most likely adversely effects loved-ones in the end.

Yeah it's Oprah, what's up?

Originally posted by PrplHrt
I find it stunning that my fellow Americans don't understand why violence is so prevalent in our society. Here's a couple of clues -

HOLLYWOOD & VIDEO GAMES

There was a time when I would have argued against this, and I still believe the inherent danger in movies and games will not necessarily motivate acts of actual violence, but can influence and enhance the risks in already compromised minds.

I watched my son play an X-box 360 game online some time ago and it was a war game, I had no idea how real the graphics had become, and was shocked and amazed at first, then I seen a soldier of some kind being shot by the gun on the screen, there was a scream in pain, as an arm was blown off, blood and gore was too real, as the game character began to fall, I looked at my son and he has a strange grin on his face, then with his controller he continued shooting at that character. My son is not a violent person, and he is a teenager, old enough to buy, rent and play that kind of game, and while I don't believe he would ever do anything bad in real life, I can't help but wonder how these games affect young people.

reply to post by Jeremiah65


I know you're only trying to come up with a solution, good for you on that. But, I guarantee you that one of the psychological roadblocks to purchasing a weapon would be if a person is in a state of depression. Ninety-nine percent of America would be turned down.

Plus, this would be just another case of the 0.11156% of the population controlling what the rest of us can or cannot have. The percentage of mentally ill committing crimes is so insignificant compared to those that don't commit crimes.