Why is the discussion about "gay marriage" so narrowly focused on ONLY the Christian church?

Couple of responses to various posters
1) OP- The forces behind gay marraige feel 'civil unions' are not 'equal' to marriage. I thinks gays would be fine with civil unions, but the ALLIANCE is demanding more. Gays are stuck with the alliance, otherwise they get nothing.

2) The sin of homosexuality is CONFIRMED in the New Testament, unlike the many things that are 'made clean'(like lobster etc...) through Christ. However, while its a sin there is not a demand for earthly punishment. We have all of eternity for that.

3) Marriage is the first covenant ( in the book of Genesis) established shortly after creation, so Christians can logically take ownership

4) Much of Judaism in the States is liberal, like churches(ex UCC) that back gay marriage, they are mostly for it. Its not that its OK in orthodox judaism, but its part of that alliance I spoke about. The left wing camp will fight for your group, in return you have to back all of their platform. Like abortion, most US jews will get trapped in this movement too

reply to post by GeneralMishka


^^ This is for real? Christians come on now. Don't tell me you agree with this... Especially points 2 and 3...

Your creation story (where adam gets a wife) takes place what 6,000 years ago? Christians came about what 2,000 years ago... That's 4,000 years after marriage. A little late to the party huh? Or was Adam a christian, haha..

Jesus says the most important thing to do is Love God.. "The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no commandment greater than these."

Love Gay people as yourself. There is nothing higher except loving god.

Get over your fear, it limits your understanding greatly.

Originally posted by GeneralMishka
Couple of responses to various posters

2) The sin of homosexuality is CONFIRMED in the New Testament, unlike the many things that are 'made clean'(like lobster etc...) through Christ. However, while its a sin there is not a demand for earthly punishment. We have all of eternity for that.

Would you like to substantiate that? And I mean a literal asking of the question and a response in context to the question. Of course, there is no such thing. I believe you are referring to where Christ says 'marriage is between a man and a woman' while at a marriage, and at the time I'm fairly sure that would have been that. Now show me where a quote attributed directly to Christ - no one else - says homosexuality is a sin which will be punished for all eternity.

Originally posted by something wicked

Originally posted by GeneralMishka
Couple of responses to various posters

2) The sin of homosexuality is CONFIRMED in the New Testament, unlike the many things that are 'made clean'(like lobster etc...) through Christ. However, while its a sin there is not a demand for earthly punishment. We have all of eternity for that.

Would you like to substantiate that? And I mean a literal asking of the question and a response in context to the question. Of course, there is no such thing. I believe you are referring to where Christ says 'marriage is between a man and a woman' while at a marriage, and at the time I'm fairly sure that would have been that. Now show me where a quote attributed directly to Christ - no one else - says homosexuality is a sin which will be punished for all eternity.

I would be happy to. While Sodom and Gomorrah are discussed in a few places in the New Testament, The Book of Romans best reveals the sinfulness of the behaviour, why it happens, and why that act is allowed to occur


Romans 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

Romans 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

Romans 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

Romans 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

Romans 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

Romans 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

Romans 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

Romans 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

Romans 1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

Romans 1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

Romans 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Originally posted by Dustytoad
reply to post by GeneralMishka

 

^^ This is for real? Christians come on now. Don't tell me you agree with this... Especially points 2 and 3...

Your creation story (where adam gets a wife) takes place what 6,000 years ago? Christians came about what 2,000 years ago... That's 4,000 years after marriage. A little late to the party huh? Or was Adam a christian, haha..

Jesus says the most important thing to do is Love God.. "The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no commandment greater than these."

Love Gay people as yourself. There is nothing higher except loving god.

Get over your fear, it limits your understanding greatly.

edit on 12/11/2012 by Dustytoad because: (no reason given)

Adam was created by Christ, so yes Adam knew Christ and is a Christian.


John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.

John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

We all know the answer to this rhetorical question. It is because the marxist/liberal aims to destroy Judeo-Christianity, not Islam or the plethora of other anti-gay religions. Islam is many times more strongly anti-gay and yet the "liberal"/marxist defends islam every chance they get.

Mariage is about reproduction...making the next generation of soldiers and tax payers.

Since any gay couple cannot reproduce, this debate isn't about equal rights, because the couples are not equal. If you cannot do the "Job" of marriage, you don't get the title of marriage.

This is a fits with most of the issues today.

Cannot afford a house, but you really really want one...
Cannot score high enought to get into a school, but you really really want to go there....
Are not qualified for a job, but you really really want it....
The law says you cannot enter a country illeagally, but you really really want to be there...

it's the same fight over and over again. One side thinks fairness is something that means, everyone gets to do what they want. The other side thinks fairness is, reaping what you sow.

reply to post by PvtHudson


Um are you unaware that Christians are the majority in America? So therefor the biggest front runners in the hate a fag sweepstakes. That's like you asking, 'Why are white's always called racist?!? I heard a Chinese guy call someone racial slur last week, They should be to blame!'. Here's some numbers for you: The majority of Americans (73%) identify themselves as Christians.

Case closed.

Originally posted by thinline
Mariage is about reproduction...making the next generation of soldiers and tax payers.

Since any gay couple cannot reproduce, this debate isn't about equal rights, because the couples are not equal. If you cannot do the "Job" of marriage, you don't get the title of marriage.

Lots of marriages don't result in children. Are they not 'real' marriages then? How about single people who know they can't have kids due to health reasons &c., should they be prevented from getting married?

Arguably, there's too many people in the world already. The days of the West needing to be married to legitimise having kids has long gone and so have the days where you have 6 kids because half of them won't reach adulthood.

If people want to get married and not have kids, then it's fine by me. Particularly if one of the main reasons to have kids appears to be to raise them purely to fight in wars.

reply to post by thinline


Do the job of marriage? How about dead beat dads, adoption, welfare, you know the usual that the 'right' parents get themselves into. What's accounting for that? Tax dollars. We waste more money 10 fold on a man and a woman being 'married' then we ever would gay marriage. By the by marriage is a financial decision.

reply to post by GeneralMishka


I'm sorry, I'm aware of the quotes you have kindly provided, none of them are attributable to having come from the mouth of Christ, are they?

Originally posted by Dustytoad
reply to post by GeneralMishka

 

^^ This is for real? Christians come on now. Don't tell me you agree with this... Especially points 2 and 3...

Your creation story (where adam gets a wife) takes place what 6,000 years ago? Christians came about what 2,000 years ago... That's 4,000 years after marriage. A little late to the party huh? Or was Adam a christian, haha..

Jesus says the most important thing to do is Love God.. "The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no commandment greater than these."

Love Gay people as yourself. There is nothing higher except loving god.

Get over your fear, it limits your understanding greatly.

edit on 12/11/2012 by Dustytoad because: (no reason given)

That 6,000 years ago comment has never, and I mean never been a stance taken by any major organised religion. Ever. It came about as a fad around geology in the 17th and 18th century, it has never been taken as 'fact' except by some fundamental fringe groups.

As to your other point as to loving others, I completely agree with you.

reply to post by PvtHudson


I honestly wasn't even aware there was much discussion by anyone about whether churches should perform gay marriage services. I've always been under the impression that the discussion was on whether the government has the power to limit freedom in such a way as to bar gays from marriage. Even within that discussion, I thought everyone knew enough to understand that churches have the right to perform marriage ceremonies or not perform marriage ceremonies, with no forced intervention from government either way. The only real debate has been the legal status of gay marriage debate.

That, or there's a lot of real dumb people out there who think governments should tell religious institutions what their beliefs and practices are allowed to be.

I'm a straight, sorta-Catholic, who is personally against abortion, but I believe people who want an abortion should get one, and that gays should be allowed to marry. There are places for people who think otherwise - theocracies run by ruthless dictators, etc., but not here in the US.

My personal belief is the rhetoric of the term "marriage" is utilized to get people fired up, because most people associate it with religious institutions. If we referred to LGBTQ being given the legal and financial benefits of heterosexual couples as a 'civil union' instead; I doubt it would carry as much weight.

The Christian church is one of the foremost opponents of gay marriage. How many other religions, in no way connected to Christianity, have the same qualms?

There are nonchristians in Africa who love the same sex as much as they love the opposite sex. Does that answer your question?

Originally posted by something wicked


That 6,000 years ago comment has never, and I mean never been a stance taken by any major organised religion. Ever. It came about as a fad around geology in the 17th and 18th century, it has never been taken as 'fact' except by some fundamental fringe groups.

As to your other point as to loving others, I completely agree with you.

My point is that christians were not here until way, way, after marriage according to the bible..
If any religion should own marriage should it not be Jewish? Or some older culture. The poster I was responding to wants it to ONLY be christian..

In order for sodomy to gain acceptance everywhere, they have to infiltrate the largest institutions, the government, the schools and the Christian Church.

They got the governement covered. See the Time magazine cover of Obama with the rainbow halo and the title "The First Gay President".

They've heavily infiltrated the schools. Do a google search for Mass. and what was taught to 14 year olds even back in 2000. It will revolt and disgust you. I can't repeat it here. It is very X-rated. Look hard enough and you will find the actual recordings of the teaching sessions to the kids. Prepare to vomit.

Then there's the Churches. They ar making headway with the liberal deniminations who ordain sodomite pastors. I guess they ignor all the parts of the Bible that call homosexuality an abomination.

It's going to get worse. MUCH worse.

Persecution of Christians is right around the corner. Mark. My. Words. It's coming. Before the decade is out.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
The Christian church is one of the foremost opponents of gay marriage. How many other religions, in no way connected to Christianity, have the same qualms?

There are nonchristians in Africa who love the same sex as much as they love the opposite sex. Does that answer your question?

Actually, the Islamic faith and Judaic faith are both fairly similar in their stance.

And by the way, in most African countries, homosexuality is despised, I'm sorry, but it is.

reply to post by thinline

Mariage is about reproduction...

Wow and here all this time I thought it was SEX that "was about reproduction".

Silly me.

Originally posted by davjan4
In order for sodomy to gain acceptance everywhere, they have to infiltrate the largest institutions, the government, the schools and the Christian Church.

They got the governement covered. See the Time magazine cover of Obama with the rainbow halo and the title "The First Gay President".

They've heavily infiltrated the schools. Do a google search for Mass. and what was taught to 14 year olds even back in 2000. It will revolt and disgust you. I can't repeat it here. It is very X-rated. Look hard enough and you will find the actual recordings of the teaching sessions to the kids. Prepare to vomit.

Then there's the Churches. They ar making headway with the liberal deniminations who ordain sodomite pastors. I guess they ignor all the parts of the Bible that call homosexuality an abomination.

It's going to get worse. MUCH worse.

Persecution of Christians is right around the corner. Mark. My. Words. It's coming. Before the decade is out.

edit on 11-12-2012 by davjan4 because: spelling

please...400 years of religous persecution and murder against non-believers makes me vomit. it is known as the "dark ages" in europe. funny how religous christians skip over those centuries of death and despair. ANY PERSONS RELIGION should be in their own home and in the church of their choosing, and kept away from having any power over the general public. the belief in mythical beings, and those mythical beings writings, cancels out any legitimate say in the publics business.