I'm convinced that Negative thinking is good, and Optimism is messing up society

Originally posted by metaldemon2000

Originally posted by newcovenant

Originally posted by metaldemon2000
reply to post by newcovenant

 

Opposites attract.

Like objects repel.

Yes. Opposites can attract and like objects repel when you are dealing with magnetism but that doesn't negate the law of attraction. Like attracts like.

Uh, with electricity too.

Electromotive force is the basic principal on which the universe works.

What school did you go to?

For what your talking about I only found a bunch of new age websites. Your "law of attraction" was made by people with very little understanding of physics who are just trying to sell a few books/products. These new age beliefs are totally adverse to science, and even religion in some cases and if even a small portion of the human race were to believe in it our species would be taking a giant leap back in progress.

Just because a bunch of people say it on the internet and post pretty pictures on Facebook with unicorns and rainbows doesn't make it so. New age crap is designed to prey on weak and broken people who should be seeking psychological help. Its easy to get you hooked on and once you are in there are a million shysters waiting to screw you out of your money (which you gladly hand over to them).

I am personally related to one of these crooks and its absolutely disgusting on how she goes about ripping off people going through crisis. Meanwhile, thousands of people are taken in by her and she is somewhat of an "authority" on the subject. If they only knee how terrible of a person she was and hownher life has been one giant con game after the next. She has openly admitted to me that its all crap, the whole thing. All this law of attraction (which I thought was pretty stupid anyways) and fairy dust BS. Its just a facade people use to hide the harshness of their reality that they are unwilling to accept.

Anyways. Please leave this law of attraction (that wacky version) out of the conversation. Too many of you clowns on ATS these days. What happened to this site? Used to be lots of intelligent discussions on here.

What school did you go to? Rude school?

Show me the law of opposites attracting. It's a old wives saying.

Laws of attraction

In c. 391 BC, Plato built on Empedocles’ conception of philia (attractive force)... by postulating the first law of affinity that “likes tend toward likes”, e.g. earth to earth or water to water, etc.

In 1250, Albertus Magnus applied the conception of ‘affinity’ to chemical systems and postulated four laws of affinity. In 1687, Isaac Newton proposed that chemical affinities were due to certain forces that would likely follow similar laws analogous to the three laws of planetary motion.

In 1718, after translating Newton’s Opticks, French physician and chemist Étienne Geoffroy proposed a new law of affinity that ‘whenever two substances are united that have a disposition to combine and a third is added that has a greater affinity with one of them, these two will unite, and drive out the other.’

... most consider Isaac Newton to be the one who stimulated the discovery of the "laws of attraction".

en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by metaldemon2000
reply to post by newcovenant

 

Oh and "like attracts like" is BS. I'm surrounded by people that I hate. The people I would rather have as company either dint exist or don't exist near me. I know these real do-gooder people who really have no idea what goes on outside of hockey and reality TV shows and I am so the polar opposite of them its not even funny.

Even my wife, we have absolutely nothing in common, don't share any of the same friends. We can't even watch TV together. We are exact opposites.

Looks like science wins again.

edit on 12/12/3 by metaldemon2000 because: (no reason given)

Sounds like few winners there, although I do not know your wife. You are surrounded by people you hate....hmmm? Kind of proving my point....are they difficult and unpleasant? It's obvious your relative and that book had a terrible effect on you. I am sorry for that. Glad I never read it but my post wasn't about that book. I disagree with the premise of the OP...completely. I see you think differently. It is a free world last I looked and we are allowed to disagree. I have scientific basis for my own presumptions and I am not ignorant because I don't think the way you do. No one is. I even resent the implication.

reply to post by newcovenant


haha. he even gave you the "wth happened to ATS?" line.

I ask myself that all the time, particularly with reference to people like him.

I like his opinion (on topic) better than yours, tho.

Well I'm certainly no new ager and I find those that are blythely happy and positive tiring to be around at times but likewise those who always see the bad or negative in everything.

Yes the OP is absolutely right we're moving towards the grave,things decay,moutains are eventually washed away thats the way of nature and reality.

If being alive means your moving towards death then life just like the entire universe is in motion.Dynamic.Meaning change is certain making a fixed outlook whether positive or negative nonsensical.

Sometimes you're up,sometimes your down so my approach is to make the most of the good times and deal with the bad times the best i can.

Yes,when it's going well I know fine it wont last forever so it's daft not to make the most of it while I can and to hell with what may go wrong until it does.

And when it is hard going,when everything that can go wrong does and nothing I do seems to work I get on as best I can,trying to bear in mind it will get better sometime.

It doesnt make problems vanish overnight or change the outcome of things beyond my control but it allows me to take a little joy in silly passing moments or to appreciate 5 mins peace sitting with a cup of tea and smoking a cigarette.

When it's all going to the dogs a realistic outlook and a little hope (if we're in motion,change is guaranteed so nearly certain it will eventually get better so a reason to hope) allows those moments of peace and pleasure however fleeting they may be and thats enough at times.

Is the glass half full or half empty ~ depends if it's my round next or yours

reply to post by newcovenant


I tried the thinking things into existence (Law of Attraction) and it doesn't work. And when it did work, I am pretty sure it had nothing to do with my "thinking" now that I look back on it - but at the time I believed it was actually my thoughts. Tell that to those who believe in their gods - pray for food yet starve to death.

Even if you could just "think" things into existence, that does NOT give any purpose to live. Everyone will die, and in a billion years it all would have meant nothing, anyway.

There is no purpose to life, and that's why people give their own meaning... still doesn't change the fact that it is just a made up meaning that a person BELIEVES in their mind - and reality is just HAPPENING...

reply to post by arpgme

I tried the thinking things into existence (Law of Attraction) and it doesn't work. And when it did work, I am pretty sure it had nothing to do with my "thinking" now that I look back on it - but at the time I believed it was actually my thoughts. Tell that to those who believe in their gods - pray for food yet starve to death.

You have to take what you NEED into account first. What, did you try to think Attract a Ferrari?

In all seriousness, the universe responds to what you need, not what you want. That's half the problem right there. Of course, it's all psychological games to begin with. First, you think about it. Then, you keep focusing on it. Then, you're thinking of ways to get it down. Then, you're dreaming about it. Then, you say, "F*** it, I'm doing this," and suddenly, you've gotten a promotion, a new car, a better apartment, and a nice lady friend.

Because you thought about it so much, you finally got up the gumption to go and DO it. That's what it does - a subconscious boot in the rear. I should probably add that this is just another theory. Take it or leave it.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Yes, just a theory. It doesn't work for the many who are starving in poor countries with nothing to eat. If they think about food, the stomach growls even more and yet there is no food and sight and not a way to get it. Even those who believe in their God and pray - having confidence that the food will come since their god can do anything - nope..

Positive and negative thinking are simply not as the OP puts it. Neither is optimism as he states it.

Positive thinking involves posting.

Negative thinking involves negating.

It has to do with thinking style rather than affect or the possibility of denial.

You can posit pessimistically and negate optimistically.

Optimism is preparing for the worst while hoping for the best. . that's all!!!

Denial has nothing to do with positive or negative thinking styles.

reply to post by arpgme

I've struggled with these kinds of thoughts too. It's how I bumped into existentialism.

There're too many ways to look at it, so I can't come to any conclusions.

But I feel like there're two main choices:
1. Live
2. Die

I'm not sure what that means.

Here's another thing: I'm afraid to die. Why? Because what if this life is all there is? If it's then I'd like to stick around, at least for a little while to accomplish some things. I don't want to leave this life early if I'll be dead forever. On the other hand, if I knew there was something better on the other side of death, I'd probably leave, unless people here in this world that I care about wanted me to stay longer. I value their opinions enough that I would. But I'd make my view clear to them.

I do think that to some extent our life is like a piece of wood stuck in a current of water streaming down from the hills and into the river. In other words, some forces are outside our control. Forces like our animal instincts built over millions of years or the earth or the inertia of things or the local universe or other some such localized and long lived process. In this sense, purpose is guided by these forces. These forces aren't necessarily non-living, either. This is true, for instance, if we're born into a country experiencing war or genocide. In that case, our purpose might possibly be shaped by it and we might grow up to be anti-war or a soldier of war or a refugee that fled to safety.

But I think that we do have some freedom of choice within our local reality. While much of the reality around us is pre-existing and/or existing outside ourselves, we can at least choose how we respond to what happens. For example, if I am born into a country experiencing drought, while it might force me to know what it's like to not have plentiful water and to engage varying solutions, the positive is I can choose among them based on my own individual perspective. This is not an example of endless freedom (if we had that we'd be God), but some freedom is present.

Bottom line, know how to make lemonade when you only got lemons. That's life.

I don't feel anybody HAS to be here. Nobody can take that right away. It's our sole right, if we choose to do so, to leave this world. But we should be considerate. If we leave it can hurt others or cause them anguish.. However, irregardless of anything I could say, it's still individual discretion.

Generally, I want to contribute. I think most people do. This reality is a shared sort of thing. We all do our little bit and along the way we do our own thing too. But I suppose that the way in which I contribute can be different from somebody else. Look at republicans and democrats for an example. They each contribute in different ways because they believe differently. Essentially, they disagree about what reality is and how to make our lives better. This is fundamental. I suppose that science tries to make us all believe similarly so we're not working against each other's efforts. But sometimes I wonder if the human comes first and the science comes second. Conflict is inevitable.

reply to post by jonnywhite


Ironically, it always seem to be the people who hold truest to their morals that are the most destructive. They "believe" that this is the RIGHT way - and try to force others to live that way and wind up causing wars and needless destruction.

If this life is all there is, then it is pointless.
In fact, even if an afterlife exists, it would still be pointless (including the afterlife ).
At some point, you'll have to admit that things just exist and do not have purpose...
Even if there is a god that gave us purpose, what is this god's purpose? None... just existing...

One thing that I do know is this:

If you are not too optimistic about life, you are less likely to be disappointed.

Originally posted by arpgme
If you are not too optimistic about life, you are less likely to be disappointed.

I do understand where you're coming from on this one. And there is even a little truth to it, but I think you're looking at it the wrong way. As was already mentioned, positive thinking is not about sticking your head in the sand and ignoring reality. Being realistic to some degree is absolutely necessary for "positive thinking," to have its greatest benefit, I believe. I think the phrase "optimistic realism" was used earlier. That's not a bad one.

But I will point out one important thing to you... something you may be ignoring. I heard this last week... I wish I could recall where or the exact quote, but I'll paraphrase. It was essentially this:

Every person who ever accomplished something new and great and groundbreaking had to do something remarkable, in their mind-- they had to imagine that things were going to happen differently than they ever had before. Especially those who have had to overcome adversity. They had to believe that things would happen differently "this time." Your "pessimism = realism" worldview does not leave room for such greatness.

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by AfterInfinity

 

Yes, just a theory. It doesn't work for the many who are starving in poor countries with nothing to eat. If they think about food, the stomach growls even more and yet there is no food and sight and not a way to get it. .

That is not thinking of food, that is thinking of hunger. I'm not sure who taught you "LOA" but it seems like they didn't do a very good job of it. Not surprising considering most of the material on the market leaves a lot of important stuff out. You try thinking of abundance, and feeling like you actually have it already, when you're starving and your stomach pains you. It is a seriously difficult feat. If you do not truly believe, if you even have serious doubt lingering beneath the surface, it works against you.

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by newcovenant

 

I tried the thinking things into existence (Law of Attraction) and it doesn't work. And when it did work, I am pretty sure it had nothing to do with my "thinking" now that I look back on it - but at the time I believed it was actually my thoughts.

Did it work, or did it not work? You seem very inconsistent. Were you that inconsistent when you were practicing the Law Of Attraction? And you claim you had some success, but dismissed it away as the result of other stuff. that's very, well.... dismissive of you. Did you imagine that you believe positively that you will get a good job, and one falls out of the sky and hits you on the head? No. This stuff, (just like what some would call "magick") works within ordinary means. So of course you could explain it away as something else.

Originally posted by arpgme
Even if you could just "think" things into existence, that does NOT give any purpose to live. Everyone will die, and in a billion years it all would have meant nothing, anyway.

There is no purpose to life, and that's why people give their own meaning...

Ah, now we've gotten to the heart of the matter. You're an atheist, and upset about the giant gaping hole in your soul, and the perceived meaninglessness of life. I can't say I'm without sympathy. But what you're trying to do (it seems) is to encourage others to see life as hopelessly as you do. That's a really ignoble thing to do. You did get one thing nail-on-the-head right, though. You have to find your own meaning in life. I assure you, however, that you will never find it wallowing in negativity, and certainly not by trying to drag others down with you. You must be in a lot of pain to want to do that.

Originally posted by arpgme


If you are not too optimistic about life, you are less likely to be disappointed.

Maybe not in individual situations.....but more disappointed about life in general I would say

Originally posted by arpgme
Anyone who claims to be better than anyone else for any reason, lacks true humility, because, to be humble is to put everyone before yourself - it is altruism, sacrifice, putting yourself as last before ALL others....

Fancy that! Maybe you're unhappy because you are too full of your version of "true humilty".
"Oh the world sucks people are baaaad but in order for me to consider myself an okay person I'll put myself last before ALL others." Gee, no wonder you are disappointed. You're supposed to love your neigbor as yourself, just how much do you love yourself if you think you're supposed to be last?
Is love devoid of honesty? If you make a thread about how horrible and dim witted people are how does that make you feel better, just HAD to get it off your chest? Surely you didn't write a whole thread just so you can wallow in more negativity, obviously you were optimistic that someone would give you a bone.

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by newcovenant

 

I tried the thinking things into existence (Law of Attraction) and it doesn't work. And when it did work, I am pretty sure it had nothing to do with my "thinking" now that I look back on it - but at the time I believed it was actually my thoughts. Tell that to those who believe in their gods - pray for food yet starve to death.

Even if you could just "think" things into existence, that does NOT give any purpose to live. Everyone will die, and in a billion years it all would have meant nothing, anyway.

There is no purpose to life, and that's why people give their own meaning... still doesn't change the fact that it is just a made up meaning that a person BELIEVES in their mind - and reality is just HAPPENING...

I am not saying you can change things necessarily as much as steer or guide them like a rudder. You never get what you long for until you stop thinking you need it. I have learned that myself by living to be old. Funny thing is I have met many others who have experienced it too. I think we are electric...some dim some bright and some burnt out but all of us having an affect on that which surrounds us. We are like domino's or that "ripples across the water" thing.

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by newcovenant

 

I tried the thinking things into existence (Law of Attraction) and it doesn't work. And when it did work, I am pretty sure it had nothing to do with my "thinking" now that I look back on it - but at the time I believed it was actually my thoughts. Tell that to those who believe in their gods - pray for food yet starve to death.

Even if you could just "think" things into existence, that does NOT give any purpose to live. Everyone will die, and in a billion years it all would have meant nothing, anyway.

There is no purpose to life, and that's why people give their own meaning... still doesn't change the fact that it is just a made up meaning that a person BELIEVES in their mind - and reality is just HAPPENING...

I don't think this is something YOU can operate. It isn't like an ignition switch you turn on. I think it is more of a Universal....tendency. The law of attractions explains all "groups" and although It has notable exceptions and cases that question the "law" itself, it is admittedly (or not) operatively TRUE.

Opposites attract because we are trying to complete a whole that looks like this.



People are attracted to people that "complete" them and have the qualities they do not have - but need.