Obama quietly signs bill shielding airlines from carbon fees in Europe, page 1


Pages: <<  1    2  >>
ATS Members have flagged this thread 3 times
Topic started on 28-11-2012 @ 01:48 AM by xuenchen
Obama quietly signs bill shielding airlines from carbon fees in Europe

President Obama signed a law that will stop the European Union from taxing carbon emissions from U.S. owned airlines.

This is good news I suppose, but what will environmentalists think now ?

They were attempting to sway Obama into vetoing the law.

President Obama has signed into law a bill that requires U.S. airlines be excluded from European carbon emissions fees.

Environmentalists had framed the bill as the first test of the president's commitment to fighting climate change in his second term and urged him to veto it. Obama quietly signed it Tuesday over their objections.

"The Obama administration is firmly committed to reducing harmful carbon pollution from civil aviation both domestically and internationally, but, as we have said on many occasions, the application of the EU [Emissions Trading System] to non-EU air carriers is the wrong way to achieve that objective," a White House spokesman said in a statement to The Hill. ....

Obama quietly signs bill shielding airlines from carbon fees in Europe




Perhaps he is "saving" his own version for American companies ??


Link to the Legislation


reply posted on 28-11-2012 @ 01:54 AM by Happy1
reply to post by xuenchen



So what's the anti-american Obozo up to now?

Anyone who follows what this clown does, knows it's no-good for US/us.


reply posted on 28-11-2012 @ 10:08 AM by new_here
Originally posted by xuenchen
Obama quietly signs bill shielding airlines from carbon fees in Europe

President Obama signed a law that will stop the European Union from taxing carbon emissions from U.S. owned airlines.

This is good news I suppose, but what will environmentalists think now ?

They were attempting to sway Obama into vetoing the law.

President Obama has signed into law a bill that requires U.S. airlines be excluded from European carbon emissions fees.

Environmentalists had framed the bill as the first test of the president's commitment to fighting climate change in his second term and urged him to veto it. Obama quietly signed it Tuesday over their objections.

"The Obama administration is firmly committed to reducing harmful carbon pollution from civil aviation both domestically and internationally, but, as we have said on many occasions, the application of the EU [Emissions Trading System] to non-EU air carriers is the wrong way to achieve that objective," a White House spokesman said in a statement to The Hill. ....

Obama quietly signs bill shielding airlines from carbon fees in Europe




Perhaps he is "saving" his own version for American companies ??


Link to the Legislation


Just curious... will these airlines be taxed within the U.S.? If not, then why would anything else be carbon-taxed?
edit on 11/28/2012 by new_here because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 28-11-2012 @ 10:51 AM by JohnPhoenix
Originally posted by xuenchen
Obama quietly signs bill shielding airlines from carbon fees in Europe

President Obama signed a law that will stop the European Union from taxing carbon emissions from U.S. owned airlines.



I don't see how he can do this at all in the first place. I think it's illegal.


How can a US Law mandate what another country can or can not do with any private business that operates in it's country no matter the origin of that business?

Please someone give me a good answer on this craziness.

Mind you, I don't agree with a carbon emission tax, I think it's a scam but that's a separate issue.
edit on 28-11-2012 by JohnPhoenix because: sp



reply posted on 2-12-2012 @ 08:17 AM by Zaphod58
reply to post by Yazman



The same can be said of the EU law however. They don't have the right to tell businesses from other countries that they have to pay for operating, especially when this includes operations in their home country.

As for the legality of it, they're not saying that the airlines aren't participating in it, they're saying that if it's determined that it's in the public interest to do so, the airlines will be prohibited from participating. They have also included a rider in it that states, that if the EU changes the policy, or the US reaches an agreement with ICAO or their own version, then the airlines will be required to participate. It also requires the US to participate in global negotiations to limit aircraft emissions.

The legislation calls for the Secretary of Transportation to prohibit civil aircraft operators from participating in the EU emissions scheme if, after a public hearing, he or she deems it in the public interest to do so. The amendments permit the Secretary to reassess a prohibition in the event of an EU amendment to its scheme, an international agreement is adopted or the “enactment of a public law or issuance of a final rule after formal agency rulemaking, in the United States to address aircraft emissions”.

Under the bill, operators are to be held “harmless” from any adverse impact resulting from non-compliance with the EU ETS, such as over the non-payment of taxes and penalties. However, an amendment to the original bill stipulates that funds made available under the Airport and Airway Trust Fund or to the Department of Transportation or other Federal agency (such as the FAA) may not be used to settle any tax or penalty.

The bill also calls on the Secretary of Transportation, the FAA Administrator and appropriate US government officials to conduct international negotiations to pursue a worldwide approach to address aircraft emissions.

www.greenaironline.com...

There is a link to the full Senate bill at the bottom of the page.


reply posted on 2-12-2012 @ 08:23 AM by zedVSzardoz
reply to post by xuenchen



all the carbon emissions laws are ILLEGAL. You can't charge someone for producing CO2 since we produce it when we breath. It is inherit in our nature to produce it. The carbon market will be another speculative market that will drive up debt and pocket wealth. These taxes are designed to tax the very poor for owning a car, house or anything that will drive up your CO2 production. In essence, the necessary surveillance of all your activities so a tax can be applied.

They are an affront to everything we stand for. As Americans, we should be considering war if they be imposed on our country. The UN and Europe go too far.

Politicians that support them in any facet of implementation are traitors and should be tried and expelled from the country. No citizen should pay for his right to breath and function in society!

WAR.

edit on 2-12-2012 by zedVSzardoz because: (no reason given)




reply posted on 2-12-2012 @ 08:43 AM by Yazman
Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to
post by Yazman



The same can be said of the EU law however. They don't have the right to tell businesses from other countries that they have to pay for operating, especially when this includes operations in their home country.

As for the legality of it, they're not saying that the airlines aren't participating in it, they're saying that if it's determined that it's in the public interest to do so, the airlines will be prohibited from participating. They have also included a rider in it that states, that if the EU changes the policy, or the US reaches an agreement with ICAO or their own version, then the airlines will be required to participate. It also requires the US to participate in global negotiations to limit aircraft emissions.

The legislation calls for the Secretary of Transportation to prohibit civil aircraft operators from participating in the EU emissions scheme if, after a public hearing, he or she deems it in the public interest to do so. The amendments permit the Secretary to reassess a prohibition in the event of an EU amendment to its scheme, an international agreement is adopted or the “enactment of a public law or issuance of a final rule after formal agency rulemaking, in the United States to address aircraft emissions”.

Under the bill, operators are to be held “harmless” from any adverse impact resulting from non-compliance with the EU ETS, such as over the non-payment of taxes and penalties. However, an amendment to the original bill stipulates that funds made available under the Airport and Airway Trust Fund or to the Department of Transportation or other Federal agency (such as the FAA) may not be used to settle any tax or penalty.

The bill also calls on the Secretary of Transportation, the FAA Administrator and appropriate US government officials to conduct international negotiations to pursue a worldwide approach to address aircraft emissions.

www.greenaironline.com...

There is a link to the full Senate bill at the bottom of the page.



It doesn't matter what the US legislates. They can't dictate to the European Union how the EU runs its taxes or how its member states decide to tax businesses operating in their territory. If the EU decides all airlines operating within EU borders must pay the tax, then they must pay the tax.

The US congress can legislate until the cows come home but ultimately any business operations in the EU are subject to EU laws. The US government can't change this unless they manage to occupy the EU militarily.
edit on 2/12/12 by Yazman because: Fixed a typo.



reply posted on 2-12-2012 @ 08:45 AM by Zaphod58
reply to post by Yazman



And the EU has no right to dictate to other countries businesses how they operate. If the US tried this, then people would be screaming about how evil they are, and how illegal this is. They can regulate their own businesses all they want, and they can regulate other countries businesses that are partnered with EU businesses, but they have no right to tell other countries businesses that they have to pay a tax on operations that don't even take place in the EU. That's like the US telling Airbus that they have to pay taxes to the US gov't on all aircraft sold that operate in the US.
edit on 12/2/2012 by Zaphod58 because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 2-12-2012 @ 08:47 AM by Yazman
Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to
post by Yazman



And the EU has no right to dictate to other countries businesses how they operate. If the US tried this, then people would be screaming about how evil they are, and how illegal this is.


Actually, they have every right to dictate to those business how they operate when they are within EU borders. That is a standard part of international law. Any person or business is subject to the law of the land. This means that any branch of an American airline operating within the EU is subject to EU law. They don't get special treatment for being American.

When foreign businesses operate within the US, their operations inside the US are subject to US law. When foreign businesses operate within the EU, their operations inside the EU are subject to EU law.

Legislation in the US doesn't matter. What are they going to do? Economic sanctions against the EU? lmao.


reply posted on 2-12-2012 @ 08:49 AM by Zaphod58
reply to post by Yazman



Except that this law doesn't just tax operations in the EU. It taxes operations in the United States, and in international airspace that are going to the EU. The EU or any other country for that matter has no right to require payment for the operation of a business that is taking place outside of their borders.
edit on 12/2/2012 by Zaphod58 because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 2-12-2012 @ 08:58 AM by Yazman
reply to post by Zaphod58



Except it does just tax operations in the EU. EU law only applies to EU member states, including the EU's emissions trading scheme. Any airlines that operate within an EU member state are subject to the tax in regards to planes that come in and out of EU territory.

The text of the full agreement on the ETS, as you can see on the website of the UK government's Department of Energy and Climate Change, explicitly states the carbon emissions tax only means "inclusion of all flights arriving at and departing from EU airports".
Source: www.decc.gov.uk...

Operations in the US are irrelevant. It literally doesn't matter what happens in the US congress, or in the US at all. Any planes arriving at and departing from EU airports must pay the tax. Including American ones.


reply posted on 2-12-2012 @ 12:40 PM by Zaphod58
reply to post by Yazman



It only applies to flights arriving and departing from the EU, but it applies for the entire flight. Which means that they are taxing operations in the United States as well as the EU. They aren't just applying it for the portion of flight within the EU.

EU-ETS is aimed at lowering carbon-dioxide emissions. Aircraft operators are assessed a per-ton cost for their CO2 emissions based on miles flown to and from Europe. Rather than calculating those miles from the point of entry into EU airspace, EU-ETS calculates them from the point of departure to the point of arrival, raising the ire of operators and governments, which say the European Union has no right to charge fees for flight segments that take place outside of Europe.

www.nbaa.org...
Pages: <<  1    2  >>    ^^TOP^^