How Palestinians Can Finally Achieve Independence

page: 1
5
<<   2 >>

log in

join

posted on Nov, 27 2012 @ 09:09 AM
link   
Here's a pretty shrewd article from Bloomberg, that proposes the best strategy I have heard for Gaza..

How Palestinians Can Finally Achieve Independence

The article begins by stating the obvious: Current strategy of Palestinian independence has been unsuccessful.


The Hamas prime minister in Gaza, Ismail Haniyeh, said in a televised speech last week that his group remained committed to a policy of indiscriminate murder. He gave this policy a different name, of course. “Resistance,” he said, “is the shortest way to liberate Palestine.”

So, how’s resistance working out for you so far, Mr. Prime Minister?



Crude military campaigns have been more counter productive than anything else for Palestinians.



The current strategy of the more moderate leadership of the Palestinian Authority, which controls the West Bank, is less bloodthirsty but is also grounded in unreality. Part of this strategy is to continue to argue against the legitimacy of the Jewish state -- against the idea that Israel is the historic home of the Jewish people. This argument, aside from ignoring archaeology and history, has failed to convince Jews that they are not who they believe themselves to be


They won't bomb Israel out, and they won't talk them out either...

So what should they do instead?



On Nov. 29, the Palestinian president, Mahmoud Abbas, is scheduled to make this appeal in New York, and he is almost certain to gain some level of heightened recognition for the Palestinians.



There is, however, a strategy the Palestinians could implement immediately that would help move them toward independence: They could give up their dream of independence.

It’s a very simple idea. When Abbas goes before the UN, he shouldn’t ask for recognition of an independent state. Instead, he should say the following: “Israel occupied the West Bank and Gaza 45 years ago, and shows no interest in letting go of the West Bank, in particular. We, the Palestinian people, recognize two things: The first is that we are not strong enough to push the Israelis out. Armed resistance is a path to nowhere. The second is that the occupation is permanent. The Israelis are here to stay. So we are giving up our demand for independence. Instead, we are simply asking for the vote. Israel rules our lives. We should be allowed to help pick Israel’s rulers



Yeah...that's the one!

Demand the right to vote....what country in the West can stand against this without sounding like a complete hypocrite?

And the implications?




The Muslim population is on the rise in the territory, and if it were to become an equal right democracy today, Arabs would outnumber Jews...

From Israel's Fading Democracy -NyTimes April/2012


If this trend continues, all vestiges of democracy will one day disappear, and Israel will become just another Middle Eastern theocracy. It will not be possible to define Israel as a democracy when a Jewish minority rules over a Palestinian majority between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea — controlling millions of people without political rights or basic legal standing.



Here is the chink in Israel's armor, and the best way for Palestinians to advance their cause. Argue in terms of fair governance and human rights, including the right to representative government.

What would the outcome be?

From the Bloomberg article:


Reaction would be seismic and instantaneous. The demand for voting rights would resonate with people around the world, in particular with American Jews, who pride themselves on support for both Israel and for civil rights at home. Such a demand would also force Israel into an untenable position; if it accedes to such a demand, it would very quickly cease to be the world’s only Jewish-majority state, and instead become the world’s 23rd Arab-majority state. If it were to refuse this demand, Israel would very quickly be painted by former friends as an apartheid state.

Israel’s response, then, can be reasonably predicted: Israeli leaders eager to prevent their country from becoming a pariah would move to negotiate the independence, with security caveats, of a Palestinian state on the West Bank, and later in Gaza, as well. Israel would simply have no choice.



According to this article, and I have to agree, a shift in strategy by Palestinians from independence to voting rights would handcuff Israel into granting them independence, for fear of a majority Arabic population gaining full control of the state that is now Israel.


Unfortunately for Palestine, this almost certainly won't happen.


And it isn't a fail safe strategy by any means. They could demand the right to vote, Israel could offer independence, then Palestine could say no we want the vote, then the war could become a winner take all...which Israel would win.

Conspiracy! Maybe that's what the author wants, I mean his name is Goldberg...


But yeah, I really agree, to summarize for anyone who detests reading a long post:


Palestinians would be best served by shifting their strategy to demanding equal voting rights in Israel. Fearing the Arab majority, Israel would likely concede territory to Palestine for an independent state.
edit on 11/27/2012 by PatrickGarrow17 because: spelling n stuff




posted on Nov, 27 2012 @ 09:14 AM
link   
ahem
Palestinians dont have a vote in Israel. Even Arab israelis might not be able to keep their not so equal vote for long, as the call to ethnically clense Israel of them grows with their numbers



posted on Nov, 27 2012 @ 09:17 AM
link   
reply to post by GeneralMishka
 


Yeah, that's why they would be best served by making their international rhetoric more focused on voting rights than Jewish occupation...



posted on Nov, 27 2012 @ 09:55 AM
link   

Originally posted by PatrickGarrow17
reply to post by GeneralMishka
 


Yeah, that's why they would be best served by making their international rhetoric more focused on voting rights than Jewish occupation...


If you are talking about a one state solution where Palestinians are given some type of citizenship, then OK. Otherwise, you are asking a soveriegn nation to allow voting from people who are not citizens. Thats like allowing Mexicans to vote in US elections, it aint gonna happen



posted on Nov, 27 2012 @ 10:45 AM
link   
reply to post by GeneralMishka
 


Yes, Palestinians theoretically could gain a lot of support by asking for full citizenship and voting rights within Israel.



posted on Nov, 27 2012 @ 11:29 AM
link   
reply to post by PatrickGarrow17
 


This is an awesome idea - I love it.

It is my hope that this becomes a reality and that we see a light at the end of the tunnel.

Enough is enough........drop the hate, give peace a chance.



posted on Nov, 27 2012 @ 11:33 AM
link   
reply to post by Sublimecraft
 


I think so too...and I hadn't really given it any thought before reading this article.

It would be a good way to reframe the issue as one about equal rights, as opposed to territorial warfare.



posted on Nov, 27 2012 @ 11:39 AM
link   
reply to post by PatrickGarrow17
 


Indeed, the whole ball-game changes if this is implemented.

It is the best solution so far - one that needs serious consideration

I am hopeful.

S&F (from earlier - well before my first post)

OT: Love your debates
edit on 27-11-2012 by Sublimecraft because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 27 2012 @ 11:41 AM
link   
reply to post by PatrickGarrow17
 


Outside the box thinking.

I don't see anything wrong with this, actually.

Its a lot safer then killing each other.

Great thread.






posted on Nov, 27 2012 @ 11:47 AM
link   
reply to post by sonnny1
 


Too bad it won't happen. The Palestinians refuse to accept any result that doesn't include the Jews up and leaving completely, ending the "occupation."

Israel to this point has similarly refused to seriously consider the two state solution, but if Palestine were to use their numbers and lack of citizenship as leverage, I think it could be accomplished.



posted on Nov, 27 2012 @ 11:52 AM
link   
reply to post by PatrickGarrow17
 



Its too bad that this cant be a solution. Too bad those willing to risk lives, are the ones calling the shots.



posted on Nov, 27 2012 @ 11:59 AM
link   
reply to post by PatrickGarrow17
 
If only real life was as straightforward as a game of chess. It does look like an appealing idea, but one or two issues stand out to me.

The first would be trying to unite Palestinians behind one leader and one cause. There hasn't been that much solidarity within the borders to favour a politically uniting sea-change. Divisive elements and foreign intrigues would make it problematic.

The second would be that diplomacy has to be bargained for and this plan would be so undeniably overt and known to the world that it would be tough to engage in fruitful talks. After all, what would the Palestinians really be offering that Israel wants?

Thirdly, the Israelis would be politically idiotic to walk open-eyed into a deal that would seal their fate as a nation. That would intersect with Western powers seeing political significance in the continued existence of an Israeli state. Palestinian autonomy isn't as valuable to the West as Israeli stability.

In all events, it would be likely that Israel would set unachievable goals to prevent circumstances gaining momentum. Who could blame them? If roles were reversed, how many of the world's nations would put their head in that particular noose?

FTR, I'm on neither side and am trying to look at it as politicians would see it.



posted on Nov, 27 2012 @ 12:08 PM
link   
reply to post by Kandinsky
 


All good points, and more reasons why this won't happen. Palestinians would have a hard time uniting for any cause that doesn't give them full control over all of Israeli territory, and expels the current regime completely...

It may be possible, though, for the UN address to include much more rhetoric about citizenship, human rights, and democracy as opposed to ending occupation and the never ending blame, finger pointing, and accusations.

Spokesmen should focus on the injustices served to the people in Gaza, and all Arab refugees in the territory..make the issue more about their own struggling people than the oppressors..that is how to gain sympathy and support.

Israel as an evil regime is debate-able, Palestinian people struggling is not.

Really, the Palestinian movement may already have more support now than ever globally.
edit on 11/27/2012 by PatrickGarrow17 because: spelling n stuff



posted on Nov, 27 2012 @ 12:30 PM
link   
reply to post by PatrickGarrow17
 
I agree. It'd be easier for some ME nations if they had the stability to put their own houses in order and help each other. Instead, they are in a constant state of instability and riven with divisions that spread into neighbouring nations - tribal, sectarian and cultural.

Of course, it's also not very helpful that Western politics (good and bad) have been tinkering away from within and without for centuries.

Perhaps a negative view? I can't see there being peace in the Gaza strip in my lifetime although it's something most people would want to see happen.



posted on Nov, 27 2012 @ 04:25 PM
link   
reply to post by PatrickGarrow17
 


Perhaps I should just point out that the author of this piece in this Jewish publication is (probably) Jewish. How strange that the solution it proposes seeks to effectively neuter the Palestinian cause. I can't imagine why that would be.

How does voting rights (which would never be full voting rights) achieve independence?

There is only one solution to Palestine. Palestine should be, and should always have been, a State and Israel should withdraw to the 1967 borders and stop stealing Palestinian land and water.

 

The author of that article


Goldberg was born in Brooklyn, New York, and raised in Malverne, New York.[3] He attended the University of Pennsylvania, where he was editor-in-chief of The Daily Pennsylvanian.[4] While at Penn he worked at the Hillel kitchen serving lunch to students. He left college to move to Israel,[5] where he served in the Israeli Defense Forces as a prison guard during the First Intifada.


Wikipedia

Not much bias there then.

edit on 27/11/2012 by PuterMan because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 27 2012 @ 04:28 PM
link   

How Palestinians Can Finally Achieve Independence


If they shake off HAMAS ... which hasn't been doing them any good ... and get a new third party to plead their cause with Israel and the world. I'm thinking King Abdullah of Jordan. (I mentioned this elsewhere here today). Hamas hasn't exactly been the best choice for the Palestinians. They should fire Hamas and get King Abdullah. He has a bond with the Palestinians, all his country does. He's very intelligent and he knows the art of politics and how to get things done. He is savy with both the West and with the Muslim world.

Shake off Hamas. Get King Abdullah to represent them.

It couldn't hurt.



posted on Nov, 27 2012 @ 04:32 PM
link   

Originally posted by FlyersFan

How Palestinians Can Finally Achieve Independence


If they shake off HAMAS ... which hasn't been doing them any good ... and get a new third party to plead their cause with Israel and the world. I'm thinking King Abdullah of Jordan. (I mentioned this elsewhere here today). Hamas hasn't exactly been the best choice for the Palestinians. They should fire Hamas and get King Abdullah. He has a bond with the Palestinians, all his country does. He's very intelligent and he knows the art of politics and how to get things done. He is savy with both the West and with the Muslim world.

Shake off Hamas. Get King Abdullah to represent them.

It couldn't hurt.


That's what democracy is all about !

Since the people of Palestine don't elect who YOU want, let's give them a king !



posted on Nov, 27 2012 @ 04:36 PM
link   
reply to post by PuterMan
 


From the OP:




And it isn't a fail safe strategy by any means. They could demand the right to vote, Israel could offer independence, then Palestine could say no we want the vote, then the war could become a winner take all...which Israel would win. Conspiracy! Maybe that's what the author wants, I mean his name is Goldberg...


The whole purpose of this shift in strategy would be to highlight the plight, oppression, and inequality of Palestinians.



posted on Nov, 27 2012 @ 04:38 PM
link   

Originally posted by samsamm9
Since the people of Palestine don't elect who YOU want, let's give them a king !

:shk:

Basic History 101 .... Listen and learn .... Obviously King Abdullah wouldn't be their king. He's the king of Jordan. However, there are times when countries will call in another party to represent them in political talks. This happens when there are stalemates. Israel and the Palestinians .. obviously they aren't getting anywhere with things the way they are. King Abdullah and his entire country have a bond with the Palestinian people and at the same time he's extremely intelligent and could represent them in political discussions with Israel. He'd probably get much further than Hamas ever could because he makes decisions without white hot rage and hate taking over.

Obviously the way things are now, it's not working. It would be nice to see the Palestinians shake off Hamas and give him a try in all the peace talks. It'll probably never happen, but It's a good idea and worth trying.




edit on 11/27/2012 by FlyersFan because: edited not to lower myself to troll level.



posted on Nov, 27 2012 @ 05:19 PM
link   

Originally posted by Kandinsky




In all events, it would be likely that Israel would set unachievable goals to prevent circumstances gaining momentum. Who could blame them? If roles were reversed, how many of the world's nations would put their head in that particular noose?



That`s an honest question to ask.

It is a fairly lopsided balance of power - who in their right mind gives up such an advantage indeed.


_______________________



On the question of one man one vote:

I believe there was a suggestion that the Jewish Diaspora would be given a vote to counter any potential majority that the Palestinians might have.




edit on 27-11-2012 by UmbraSumus because: (no reason given)





new topics
top topics
 
5
<<   2 >>

log in

join