Could the "Red Dawn" Scenario Actually Occur?

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posted on Nov, 24 2012 @ 02:24 PM
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Originally posted by cavtrooper7
Without WMDs to soften up our overwhelmingly armed populace any invading force would be quickly isolated and destroyed,the same would applied to anyone who would attempt to do any large offensive act.They could succeed in small increments if the federal government supported them,but once the cat was out of the bag,all hell would break loose.

As a member of an armed force for 43 years as either active duty or contractor, I can assure you active duty armed forces will not only NOT take part in an illegal offensive against the citizens (their own mothers, fathers, brothers and sisters), but there would be a lightnening fast re-organization to "arrest and bring to trial" those issuing those illegal orders. All have sworn to God to carry this out.




posted on Nov, 25 2012 @ 12:13 AM
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Theres also a video game called "Homefront" which is the same premise as "Red Dawn".
Except this time, its the North Koreans.

Heres the trailer.


Nobody likes to be invaded and have foreign troops on their soil. Which explains the situation in Afghanistan. However, one mans "freedom fighter" is another mans "terrorist".



posted on Nov, 25 2012 @ 12:50 AM
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reply to post by tkwasny
 

That's what I tell them but they don't believe me.You try,nobody listens to scouts do they?



posted on Nov, 25 2012 @ 01:54 AM
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There are many forms of artistic license that the producers took out in the making of the movie. There is really too many to mention, but the one that strikes me the most, is the same problem that existed in the first red dawn movie.

There is a logical problem with the way they believe people will react after a “lights out” event. They portray it as “everyone” sleeping or just thinking it’s a power outage, until the troops start falling out of the sky.

They portray the general population as totally unaware that there could be an event happening, or even suspecting that such event could happen.

Invasion forces don’t just appear. If they started moving out before they set off the EMP blast, then the government would see it, and notify the people before communications is cut. So everyone would know. If they set off the EMP before forces started moving, you would have many hours before the forces could reach the shores. Flight time for a subsonic aircraft from china to US is around 12 to 14 hours. So people would have over half a day to spread the word and get people prepared. That half a day time window is assuming they could amass the millions of troops and get them in the planes ready to take off without the US finding out about it some way. Which is not likely. So, real world EMP to drop time is over 24 hours.

Even if you did take a 12 hour flight time as the time before troop drop, and the EMP going off in the middle of the night, Most people would still know by drop time.

Not everyone sleeps during the night. There is three shifts in most factories. There will be a good portion of the population that will be up and awake during a lights out event. Those people will quickly figure out it’s not a power outage and will start spreading the word through the neighborhoods even before the sun comes up.

There will also be people that have access to hardened communications infrastructure and know the attack is coming will be spreading the word to all they talk to.

The word will be spreading from several points throughout the country wit in an hour or so of EMP time. Even if it happened in the middle of the night. It would quickly reach a boiling point where people are running and driving through neighborhoods screaming to warn people to prepare for an attack.

All that is also assuming that the people don’t just figure it out on their own, which is highly likely. If most things did stop working, People would quickly determine through discussion that it’s not just a power outage. They would most likely conclude that it was an EMP. Once they concluded that, the obvious result of that conclusion would be that there is probably an invasion, or other hostile action coming after.

There will be plenty of time for them to anticipate such an event and get the weapons out.

What will they do when they see thousands of troops parachuting to the ground?
I will just say this…. I would NOT want to be one of those troops.

It would be like jumping onto a big cactuses comprised of millions of guns pointed up at you. I would doubt that one tenth of them would hit the ground alive.

If they did hit the ground alive, they wouldn’t live long. People would be shooting that anyone wearing green.

So, in reality, what you would have seen at the opening of the movie is thousands of troops coming out of the planes. Then a short time later, you would start hearing the deafening sound of gunfire across the neighborhood as everyone was shooting at anything falling out of the air.

And that is assuming the planes would get far enough to drop the troops. They were flying a low altitude drop run. A low altitude drop run over hostile forces. Low altitude planes are vulnerable to small arms fire. Think of thousands of people pointing their rifles at the planes flying along and dumping mag after mag into the air. They would be Swiss cheese

Because, in reality, if an army was going to do an air drop like that…. They would drop out over unpopulated areas. That is so the troops can land, gather themselves, and join the armored divisions that were also air dropped, so they can make the push into the populated hostile areas. Dropping soft troops over a heavily armed hostile force is the stupidest strategic move you could do. As, has been proven time and time again in the past, your troops will become KIA before they hit the ground.



posted on Nov, 25 2012 @ 02:07 AM
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Originally posted by Mr Tranny
your troops will become KIA before they hit the ground.


Their planes would be taken out on their own runways.


I'm literally watching Red Dawn right now. I've been yelling and laughing at my screen for 50 minutes now.

We would watch their movements via satellite and blast them out of the Pacific.

In reality you'd have every able citizen in the first 10 minutes of the movie banding with every Armed unit across Western Washington.

And where is the rest of the country while this is happening?
Canada is right there, i'm pretty sure we wouldn't be sitting idly by watching it unfold on the news.

I can just imagine convoys of Texans flooding into the Pacific Northwest with double MG's mounted on the back of their GMC. You'd have a mobilization of millions if they made it on the coast.

Not to mention all of the technology this movie leaves out that we would have access to.
Infrared cameras, night-vision, heat sensors, rangefinders, motion sensors.



posted on Nov, 25 2012 @ 02:16 AM
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As I said, there is too many forms of artistic license taken in the move to mention. It is to the point that it is basically one big “jump the shark” movie.

I wish MST3K was still around. They would be just the ones to rip this movie apart.



posted on Nov, 25 2012 @ 09:05 AM
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Originally posted by smashdem
You didnt read the article you posted, did you OP?
It is 100% correct, all they talk about is how they need to stop remaking these old movies and screwing them up. Especially when they sucked in the first place. Where did your conspiracy come from? What makes you think it is an agenda to weaken us?
edit on 24-11-2012 by smashdem because: (no reason given)

If anything, they are trying to make us more fit by telling us not to watch crappy movies. Go work out or something next time, fatty.
edit on 24-11-2012 by smashdem because: (no reason given)


You do know the TnC says to not insult people correct? You might want to edit your post again. As for the scenario anything is possible if given a chance



posted on Nov, 26 2012 @ 02:19 PM
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I saw the trailer for this (which I looked up to get the quote below) and I thought, between laughing and barfing, - What a bunch of garbage...Not even intelligent propaganda...Don't any of the chest-thumpers who'll be going out to watch it, that I assume it was made for, think - "Well, wait, isn't this what we're doing in other countries? Doesn't that make US terrorists?!"

Isn't it counter-productive to remind people of this?
They really have become insulting in how stupid they think we are...


Jed: "This is war. You're fighting in your own backyard. You're fighting for your family. For them, this is just some place. For us, this is our home. It's up to all of us to fight for it."



posted on Nov, 26 2012 @ 02:37 PM
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How could it happen , well
First pass laws making gun owner ship illegal, ban certain makes, is this not being done now?
Second have an open border policy NAFTA ring a bell?
Third have trade treaty's with foreign Gov's, China Industrial complex in Idaho?
Fourth sit back and not do a thing to protect the US Constitution, all that is left is to have a country come in and say your now under our rule , not one shot being fired, if there is a shot NDAA will be used.
Is the US under threat?



posted on Nov, 26 2012 @ 02:58 PM
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thread: "The sports facilities are the detention/relocation camps..."


In this new Red Dawn [also in the original, but not as prominent] the townspeople (at least some of them) are put into a stadium. You first see it at about 22 minutes in. At about 43 minutes a girl mentions being interrogated there, which is something that's actually happened in stadiums-turned prison. At about 51 minutes in you see it being used as a reeducation facility. It's also a major part of the final scene of the movie.


There are examples from all over the world, including the US during WW2 [and during hurricane katrina] of sports facilities being quickly transformed into detention/interrogation centers. Some have been in use in libya, syria, and india within the past two years. Many were used in europe in ww2. Chile is one of the most glaring semi-recent examples.

A very poignant quote from a japanese man who was interned here during ww2 ;

"They didn't have the facilities to house 120,000 persons, so they took over racetracks, fairgrounds, places like that..."

For what logistical reasons would they use race tracks and fairgrounds, and what are their modern day equivalents? There are examples from the US in recent years of FEMA using fairgrounds and racetracks in emergency responses, busing people in between the two even, with many of the people they're housing complaining about the treatment they received...

Please look through that whole thread, if nothing else for the historical examples. Go ahead and ignore my hypothesizing about the future. Sports facilities HAVE been used the way we see in Red Dawn in the US, mexico, south america, europe, japan, and many other countries, and it CAN happen again. The places are inherently high-security, and are constantly being used in emergency/warfare drills, not to mention their use as refugee centers during storms, fires, and other emergencies...
edit on 26-11-2012 by 1825114 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 29 2012 @ 01:11 PM
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Using racetracks and fairgrounds would provide the invading army with the following advantages.

Fairgrounds - a locat communty source of involvement. Take away this monument of the community and much of the ability of the community to come together in a local place known by all would be taken out thus breaking apart any attempts by the defenders to gather in known place to plan their counter-attack against the invaders.

Keeping the fairground in enemy hands would keep the community from being able to gather in a known location to plan their counter attacks thus breaking apart any attempts by the local leadership to mount a resistence.

The racetracks would also serve the purpose of a gathering point for communities looking to mount a counter offensive operation against the invaders.

Both facilities would also be used by those leaders in the community who decide to betray their community and fellow Americans in order to save theirselves. Such community leaders would use these locations to gather all of the community together to then process them and hand the information over to the invaders.

Racetracks would have Internet access to local money networks that the Chinese could tap into to shut down or transfers the money of the racetracks holdings into Chinese Bank Accounts to continue to fuel their military machine by purchasing weapons from Russia as well as paying Mercenaries from the Middle East to fight on their behalf in America.

Both locations would also make excellent Command and Control facilities because of the large amount of land available that can be used to set up make shift barracks and vehicle shelters without first having to clear the land.

Because the wide open spaces that both of these facilities provide they would make excellent forward helicopter assault bases where the attack helicopters could park their helicopters in the center of the observation area where they would be protected from most land assaults because of the natural protection offered by the bleachers.

A Racetrack is usually open all year round as it will have some gambling machines on the property to augment its profits during the winter time when normal operations have halted.

This means that a staff will be present that will be able to prepare meals and render medical assistance if necessary. This also means that such a facility will have food supplies on hand during the summer time and will have vast stocks of food on hand during the wintertime.

Securing food would be one of the primary objectives of an invading army and is part of the objectives of any advanced force invading a country.

Secure the local food supplies, starve the enemy into submission or compliance to fight on your side as well as having a location already secured to feed the occupying army that will be arriving after an area has been secured.

Most of the times facilities such as a Racetrack of Fairground is located in close proximity to major road networks. Such a location will make it easier for the invading army to use our our road networks against us to rapidly deploy their ground forces as well as using them as landmarks to other major facilties that they would need to take and or control.



posted on Nov, 29 2012 @ 01:26 PM
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reply to post by bekod
 


There is no force available capable of forceably disarming the American people. There are literally 500,000 cops, and less than a million soldiers. Assuming every single one followed orders, it would take decades to go house to house, and the reaction by many would make Afghanistan seem tame by comparison.

This is conspiracy fantasy role-playing + cosplay. Red Dawn has no basis in fact.



posted on Nov, 29 2012 @ 01:39 PM
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Two new interesting facts that must be looked at.

The J-15 and China's new carrier.

A few days ago I was watching a spot on MSNBC about the Chinese landing their first plane on their brand new aircraft carrier. The plane that was landed was a J-15

The J-15 is a variant of the Russian SU type of plane that is designed as a primary ground attack aircraft with limited air to air combat abilities.

The Shenyang J-15 (Chinese: 歼-15), also known as Flying Shark (Chinese: 飞鲨), is a carrier-based fighter aircraft in development by the Shenyang Aircraft Corporation and the 601 Institute for the Chinese People's Liberation Army Navy's aircraft carriers. Rumors initially claimed the aircraft was to be a semi-stealth variant, yet later reports indicate the aircraft is based on the Russian-designed Sukhoi Su-33 and is fitted with domestically produced radars and weapons. An unfinished Su-33 prototype, the T-10K-3,[3] was acquired from Ukraine sometime in 2001 and is said to have been studied extensively, with development on the J-15 beginning immediately afterward.[1][3][4][5] While the J-15 appears to be structurally based on the Su-33, the indigenous fighter features Chinese technologies as well as avionics from the J-11B program.[2]

en.wikipedia.org...

In modern warfare when using carriers to mass an attack most of the planes housed in the carrier would be air to air interdiction and anti-ship interdiction with supporting ground-attack or multi-role fighters comprising the rest of the carriers attack wings.

You don't fill an aircraft carrier full of ground attack craft without having the ability to protect the rest of the navy that is protecting you and your aircraft carrier while it makes it way to the invasion point.

This can mean only one thing. The Chinese are building a system that will render American air to air defenses useless. Be that a virus or a EMP attack to knock out that ability to defend against an air attack using our own warplanes.

With our war planes not providing any resistence the Chinese could easily then deploy their troop transports and ground based attacked warplanes such as the J-15 against American ground forces both military and militia.

I would think that the Chinese would employ a tactic similar to the North Koreans jamming the GPS of civilian aircraft and vessels here in America.

www.gpsdaily.com...

With China having purchased land in America they would use a similar system to knock out the GPS system of local aircraft around our airports thus causing severe devastation as the first unsuspecting wave of commercial airliners and smaller aircraft lose the ability to control their planes and crash into each other and into the communties around them.

This would cause Americans to be feaful of using any type of aircraft to escape the area thus securing the airports for the Chinese to use in landing their troop transports and vehicle transports. The Chinese would be able to turn this device off or on to allow their planes in and keep all other planes out.

The Chinese would most definitely design a military version to knock the GPS system of our planes out as well. Hell they probably already have it. With our warplanes not being able to launch a counter-attack the Chinese could then employ their new aircraft carrier loaded with J-15's to knock out the ground resistence.



posted on Nov, 29 2012 @ 01:40 PM
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reply to post by 0zzymand0s
 


Was 9.11.01 fantasy roleplaying and cos play?



posted on Nov, 29 2012 @ 01:44 PM
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reply to post by Dryson
 


Did 9-11 disarm the American people and land a million or more enemy soldiers on our shores?

Do you have any idea how many planes China would need to land a million soldiers in North America?

The C-17 GLOBEMASTER III has a troop capacity of 103 soldiers. That's 10,000 planes, similar to the Globemaster, of which China has, what? None? Could they build them? Sure. Would we see them coming 15-20 years out? Absolutely.



posted on Nov, 29 2012 @ 02:10 PM
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The second fact is that Russia owns and maintains a large fleet of icebreakers.

December 2012 Popular Mechanics - Stuck in the Ice, pg 68.

Russia currently has 32 icebreakers in their fleet.The country that is closest to them is Finland with 8 icebreakers. America only has 2 icebreakers in our fleet.

So why does Russia have such a large icebreaker fleet? One does not go fishing with icebreakers. One breaks large amounts of ice with icebreakers.

It could be that Russia is using their large icebreaker fleets to break apart the frozen boundary between Russia and Canda to launch an over the top attack into Canda from the the North Pole. Keeping the North Poles frozen landscape constanlty broken up would allow their nuclear submarines and attack submarines access to America through Canada.

Russia could also use their icebreaker fleets to push large chunks of glacial ice into the shipping lanes to cause problems with allies such as England and France from sending in amphibious support as well as causing environmental problems that would raise the water levels around the coastal areas of America.

The main use of Russia's icebeakers would be to launch a submarine amphibious assault on America coming through Canada first. Russia could also effect the Allies communication grid by sending teams via submarines to remote locations in the frozen North where the teams would set up ECM Jamming stations of networks that would operate in the same manner as the North Koreans GPS Jamming Equipment.

These stations would be used to knock out the guidance of missiles and warplanes that were being sent over the top from Canada and America to defend against Russia's Over the Top military move.

So why does Russia need such a large icebreaking fleet?

Is the fleet meant to be used to break apart ice looking for natural gas and oil pockets for Russia to harvest or is their use military with the cover up being looking for natural gas and oil? With Russia having involvement with Iran and Syria that both have ties to large deposits of oil and natural gas Russia wouldn't need to spend the money on exploring for these resources as it would cost to much.

Russia would save more money by investing in buying Iranian and Syrian based oil and natural gas resources to fuel their economies.

So I would have to say with the rest of countries of Earth who have icebreaker fleets being small compared to the Russian fleet I would have to say that their icebreaker fleets are for military use disguised as natural gas and oil exploration.

While America played and worked 9.11.01 happened. Then America healed itself and went back to playing and working and forgot about 9.11.01.....then Red Dawn happened.



posted on Nov, 29 2012 @ 02:25 PM
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Well, it's impossible to argue with logic like that.

Best of luck!



posted on Nov, 29 2012 @ 02:33 PM
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reply to post by 0zzymand0s
 


Whose to say that China wouldn't employ the services of Russia along with other rogue nations that are against America?

I am certain that such nations would side with China and quite possibly already have. It wouldn't be to too difficult to encourage or force such nations to allow Russia or China to house their planes.

PLAAF Transport Aircraft
Y-5 - Licensed copy of Russian Antonov An-2, made since 1950s. Light utility/transport aircraft (Cold War) Sino Defense Today
Y-7 - Copy of the Russian An-24, Y-7H based on An-26 (Cold War) Sino Defense Today
Y-8 - Copy of the Russian An-12 (Cold War) Sino Defense Today
Y-8-F600 - Modernized Y-8 Transport (Modernized) Sino Defense Today
Y-9 - Multi-purpose transport aircraft under development (Under Development) Sino Defense Today
IL-76MD - The PLAAF imported a number of Ilyushin IL-76MD medium-range transport, and the IL-78 trankers in 1990s & 2005. (Modern) Sino Defense Today

China's invasion doesn't have to come from conventional troops transports.

The Y-5 is able to be converted into a seaplane which can be used in the North where after the icebreakers have broken apart the ice caps the Y-5 would be used to deploy Chinese or Russian troops brought into the area via submarine.

The Y-8 is another smaller version of a transport that can get troops into areas using sucluded landing strips.

With 120 Y-8 currently in use by the Chinese they could use thesee planes to launch upto 10,000 airborne paratroopers from along with using 10 of these planes as cargo planes that would bring 2000 tons of cargo along with them.

The Y-9 has even greater capabilities of ferrying 25 tons of cargo as well as upto 132 armed paratroopers to drop them into an area or 106 seats for troops transport.

With 50 of these planes the Chinese could land another 6000 plus airborne troopers into America with.

If you read about the II-76 it would be the workhorse that China and Russia would use to bring troops and equipment in from over the top of the North Pole. the Il-76 was designed for delivering heavy machinery to remote, poorly-serviced areas of the USSR.

This means that it was built to land almost anywhere where a flat area of land is present. The Midwest has alot of such and and long expanses of highway that would accomodate this aircraft very nicely.

Its also clear Ozzy that you do not have any clue about warfare other than from what you see in the movies. We'll all be laughing at you through our rifle scopes while you sit in the Chinese Internment camp.



posted on Nov, 29 2012 @ 02:58 PM
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Yes, of course. I am sure you will be laughing.

But -- in an effort to deny a little ignorance here -- I will point out that the Russians keep a large fleet of icebreakers because they have few ocean ports that don't "freeze over" during winter (warm water ports).

I'm sure you calculated for that though, right?



posted on Nov, 29 2012 @ 04:14 PM
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It could very well have happened during the height of the cold war, now the world has change slightly.

The Chinese have the numbers, but not the means to get across the pond, in large.

Who else do we got, that's about it,so I wouldn't worry about it too much.

Food for thought though.

SS





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