Why every Christian, Conservative, and Republican should support Embryonic Stem Cell Funding

The Christian church, most notably the Catholic Christian Church has defined research on embryonic stem cells as bad. Period. There is no discussion, there are no shades of gray. This sentiment has slowly crept into the political arena and forced most Americans to pick sides based on religion and political affiliation. "The church says it's bad, therefor I have to vote with the Republican ticket to be a good Christian" kind of thing.

I think this is the wrong way to go about it, and making that decision is only making the situation worse for those that do oppose the research. Those with moral problems with Embryonic stem cell research should be the first ones to step up and have the government be involved and fund this research.

Why in the world would someone opposed to embryonic stem cell research want their govenrnment to fund it? Because they get to have a say in what happens. Without Federal regulation or oversight, private labs and private companies have free reign to fund what they want, and do what they want with these embryos and their gold mine of cells. No one is there to draw a line, no one is there to make sure ethical or moral boundries aren't crossed such as using older embryos, and there is no balanced discussion. This research WILL happen with or without the consent of the church, but they can at least have a say and an influence in what happens instead of none at all.

If the church were to at least entertain the idea of discussing the matter, they could introduce many ideas that could make the science less offensive to Christians and perhaps add so many new ideas to innovation. It's the discussion that is so needed. Why in the world would the church choose to turn it's back completely on something so important to them?

The church might actually gain the respect of the scientific community who might actual give more spiritual thought to the experiments and research that is conducted. Even a second thought or hesitation might do the church some good when people are less against religion and it's cut and dry black and white stance.

The church needs to get with the times. There are concepts and ideas that stand the test of time, but when most of the dogmas of the Christian church were created, it was a few hundred years ago when Biology and Embryology wasn't much of a science, and we didn't know as much about the body and its potential. Those fields exist now, and church leaders pretend like they don't exist. The church is becoming outdated, and it's being abandoned by generations of people because of this. The idea of the "Buddy Christ" in the movie Dogma wasn't so off. It's hip and fresh, while sticking to the churches basic principles and teachings.

The church also needs to recognize that this issue is about more than just "life" and bring up many more issues from social to economic. There was an old test the church used when discussing economic decisions: "Does this improve the situation of the poor? If no, then we do not support it." That can be applied to medical science, too. Will this research be a benefit to everyone? How? That's not a question often posed by scientists, but perhaps could be with the participation of the church.

So to sum it all up, the best way for the church to have even a bit of control in scientific decision making and progress is to be involved and right up front. To be involved and right up front, research needs to move out of private labs into more public ones, and the church needs to be willing to at least talk about it. Otherwise, they will be forgotten and more and more generations of people will dismiss the teachings of the church as oldschool and not worth their time.

Anyway, this could be a political debate, a religious one, or a medical one. I chose political because it's become such a hot campaign issue. This problem will, however, outlast whichever administration is in power come 2005.

It's hard to believe in this day and age that anyone actually believes in a religion....Oh well maybe one day they will see that the world is round and not flat....

Well personally why I do not is that it is the same as Fetal cells were last time around, and that turned out to be not the best route.

As it is today, Adult stem cells show much more promise and we keep the ethical questions moot..about embryonic, plus there are already plenty of them around for years of study...it has been made a political issue.

Adult cells don't show as much promise though. More research is going that way because it's what we have to work with, but the embryonic cells are much more versitile and show greater promise for 'miracle' cures and treatments.

Adult stem cells do have great value and shouldn't be forgotten, but there is much more promise in the embryonic ones which develop in numbers at a much faster rate. Research will continue on them around the world and in private ventures in this country regardless of what our government says.

There are not plenty around for years of study - there is a limited number of lines and limited study and progress. Unfortunately, it has been made a political issue and a bad and uninformed one at that. I still think those against it have their politics all wrong, and should be fighting as much as possible for federal involvement and support.

Edsinger - not sure what you mean by "it is the same as fetal cells were last time around." What are you referring to, and what isn't the best route? Is this cord blood or am I thinking of something totally different?

Originally posted by RedBalloon
Adult cells don't show as much promise though. More research is going that way because it's what we have to work with, but the embryonic cells are much more versitile and show greater promise for 'miracle' cures and treatments.

Edsinger - not sure what you mean by "it is the same as fetal cells were last time around." What are you referring to, and what isn't the best route? Is this cord blood or am I thinking of something totally different?

No I have heard the opposite, that embryonic stem cells are not the most promising of the 2, the Adult ones are.

As for the Fetal, Fetal stem cells were a target a while back, but they did nt go far and the promise faded quickly, it was the original Stem cell and the parkingsons Cure to be, or so they claimed, they didnt work so we have moved on....


I think Adult stem cells are fine..


Plus, there are enough embryonic stem cells in existence that we could not use the supply we have now for years...

Originally posted by edsinger
No I have heard the opposite, that embryonic stem cells are not the most promising of the 2, the Adult ones are.

Depending on where you look, some say adult stem cells are better, some claim embryonic cells. Both are valuable, and great achievements have been made with adult stem cells. However, both are relatively new, and the field of embryonic cells is drastically behind the field of adult cells. The potential of embryonic cells is just now being discovered.

Originally posted by edsinger
As for the Fetal, Fetal stem cells were a target a while back, but they did nt go far and the promise faded quickly, it was the original Stem cell and the parkingsons Cure to be, or so they claimed, they didnt work so we have moved on....

Is this the cord blood and cells from pregnancies that were terminated by choice or not? They are similar to adult stem cells - cells past the rapidly dividing stage that the embryonic cells are from.

Originally posted by edsinger
I think Adult stem cells are fine..

Fine, and dandy even and there is a lot of potential here for medical wonders. Embryonic stem cells are also fine and do a lot. It's quite possible that the different types of cells will be used for different things. Currently, the embryonic cells have shown promise in diabetes and insulin regulation, and in repairing brain tissue. Adult stem cells seem to show promise in treating some cancers and nerve damage and injury.

Originally posted by edsinger
Plus, there are enough embryonic stem cells in existence that we could not use the supply we have now for years...

Well, not really. The more diverse the cell lines we have, the more valid research can be. Certain cell lines may carry specific genetic markers or variances that having a larger sample would dilute. Limiting research now pushes all the research overseas or into private hands. Once that happens, which is the point of this post to hilight, then all control of the government is lost and the church and those against the field have even less say and input. This research is going to happen - don't you want to be involved in the decision making even a little?

Hi,

As a Christian, I cannot endorse government funding of embyronic stem cell research because, no matter what I think I have in terms of say, it is still the government funding and promoting the destruction of innocent life on a large scale.

I love the country in which I live here in the US and do not want to see God's judgement fall on the government for its endorsement of the killing of innocent human life.

I'll go further, we should not have put ourselves in a position in fertility clinics where there are all these extra embryos that will be used or destroyed. These are children with souls and must now be given birth to make right that situation.

God gave mankind the gift of creating life and when we do, He imparts a soul to that new being. We have no right to end that life intentionally
before it has had a chance to live. President Bush's decision not to endorse the destroying of more innocent life was the correct one.

God, be merciful to we sinners playing with innocent human life like this.

There is no proof at all that embryonic stem cells will help at all here. There are many other lines of stem cell research that show lots of promise in the long run.

Why do we focus all our attention on this one line of research and federal funding for it?

I think that this is part of the evidence that is in the book of Ephesians that says that we fight not against flesh and blood, but spirits and powers of darkness. The devil wants more of God's children dead.

Look at the scheme. He gets people to rant and rave to destroy more embryos thus killing those infants in the name of research and then has legal cause to come into the court of heaven and accuse all of us of endorsing it and demanding that God show His justice by removing His hand of protection over the country so the devil has room to harm us. It's a total win-win for the devil. Don't fall for it! You're being played by him.

I have been noticing this fascination with the embryonic line and I don't think many of the non-Christian proponents of this federal funding program even have a clue about the plot behind the scenes here.

Some will say I am one of the flat-earth people. Keep in mind several things before you rant:

I am sure that there will be many in these threads who do not believe what I am saying, perhaps thinking I am a quack. If so, I am a highly
functional quack who has:

1. Earned an Engineering Degree from a top US engineering school, one of the top Science and Engineering schools in the country (in the league of CalTech Or Swarthmore).

2. Earned an MBA from UCLA, one of the top Business Graduate Schools in
The country.

3. Spent nearly 20 years in the Semiconductor Industry marketing and supporting some of the most sophisticated automated robotics in the world.

4. Worked on the Space Shuttle program at the beginning to redesign circuits In the avionics during college.

5. Developed a new technique for improving the resolution of CCD infrared cameras In Search and Rescue FLIR systems for Northrop Grumman.

6. Travelled and/or done business in 20 countries around the world.

I have spent most of my educational career arguing for the ways in which science and the Bible do, in fact, agree. So, be a little careful with the accusations about "old flat earth people", etc.

I don't care about being "right" here. I care that we do not go down this path and bring more harm on ourselves and others. Over the next few years, you will start to hear the words "unprecedented", "in recorded history", "in US history" more as the news reports wave after wave of natural disasters.

Sometimes, God's judgement affects others around people for the cumulative corporate sin of them all, even if some were not involved. When the government gets involved, the devil has cause to bring down that government by accusing that governement, that nation as a whole before God Himself, demanding that God bring justice, not mercy, on that people. The spiritual realm is extremely legalistic.

I implore people to get off of this fixation with government funding of embryonic stem cells. Other people's lives depend upon leaving it alone
and there is not even close to sufficient work done on the other lines which have seemed to show more promise in the early stages. These other lines are far from tapped out so there is so much empty rhetoric about "keeping the hope alive" with government funded embryonic stem cell research.

Originally posted by managerie
Hi,

As a Christian, I cannot endorse government funding of embyronic stem cell research because, no matter what I think I have in terms of say, it is still the government funding and promoting the destruction of innocent life on a large scale.

Well I agree with you. But since you have announced your faith, prepare to be attacked.....But I stand with you!

managerie - I respect your oppinion, but the God and Bible argument means nothing to me as I do not put my faith in either, and neither to many Americans. You could quote the book of "Sir Elton John" and I would accept it with equal certainty of fact. Anyway, there are still a few things that I would like to point out:

1) Not all people are Christian and believe in your 'God' as you do, or believe that the Bible is at all a valid document. This research WILL happen, and the best thing for those that believe in God might be to help put the breaks on research and at least do it in a way thats the least offensive possible. By refusing to even discuss the issue, good ideas are kept out of the debate, and private researchers do whatever they want with the embryos.

2) President Bush's decision might be the right one for him, but it might not be the right one for the nation by keeping us well behind other nations in progress here.

3) You believe that the embryos have a soul and a purpose given by God, but there are many that do not believe this to be true. I don't know who's right, and I won't pretend to know all of the moral implications of souls and life, but I do know that the more the church is involved in the discussion other than turning a deaf ear, the greater the chance that they will be heard and not dismissed. Just as you believe with certainty that destroying an embryo is killing a peron, there are an equal number of people that believe the embryo is a clump of cells that has not yet reached personhood and been given a soul of any kind.

4) You bring up the idea that embryos that are frozen should not be destroyed and they should be raised and adopted, but who has to carry these embryos to term? It could be argued that the parents that created these embryos were doing Gods work by doing everything possible to bring a child into this world, and through that work additional embryos were frozen. So who grows them? Do we force women to carry all these spare embryos? Who adopts the babies? You? Want a few? They are destroyed. They give nothing back, and wouldn't they be better honored as people by contributing something to society and perhaps helping another person with a disease? If I was an embryo, I'd at least want to make a difference.

5) Your resume is impressive, and I'm sure your mom is very proud Religion and science often conflict, and I admire your ability to embrace both. Is there no room at all for any grey on this issue of embryonic stem cells? Is it all or nothing, saint or sinner? I believe there is room for both points of view, but the church has eliminated itself from the discussion. Bad move.

Originally posted by edsinger
Well I agree with you. But since you have announced your faith, prepare to be attacked.....But I stand with you!

I have not attacked either of you here, I just pointed out than not everyone agrees and believes the same things you do. Religion of some should not dictate all decisions made in this country when it comes to science.

In my believe anything that has to do with finding cures to take care of the population and humans already in this world should be funded and religion should be taken out of it, I am not a religious person but I belive in a creator so to me religious myth has not room on scientific research to help humanity.

Originally posted by marg6043
In my believe anything that has to do with finding cures to take care of the population and humans already in this world should be funded and religion should be taken out of it, I am not a religious person but I belive in a creator so to me religious myth has not room on scientific research to help humanity.

This sounds very much like a principle taught in many philpsophy classes, and brings up an excellent angle: What decision does the greater good for the greater number of people? Would the death of relatively few embryos that save and/or improve the lives of millions of others be worth the sacrifice?