Wealthy Are Dumping Assets Fast Before Year's End... Including Their Business Or Maybe Your Job

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posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 02:25 PM
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Originally posted by jtma508
WTF people??? Look at what tax rates were in the pre-Bush years? This isn't tax armegeddon. Up to 39%. That's just over HALF what it was back in the 60's. The economy was booming during the Clinton years... the upper tax rate was 39.6%. Under Regan it started out at 70%. He lowered that percentage year by year from 70% => 50% => 38.5% => 28%. But he also lowered the floor of the top tier thereby pushoing the top tax bracket into the middle class $212K => $106K => $90k => $29,750. And then we had a recession.

Bush lowered the top tier from 39.6% to 35%. Where did THAT get us? A super recession. And during that time although the economy imploded, the top 1% accreted more wealth than at any other time in history. So much for lower top tier tax rates creating jobs.

Net Job gain/loss:

2001: -3.1M
2002: -432K
2003: +18K
2004: +2.1M
2005: +2.1M
2006: +1.7M
2007: +744K
2008: -3.6M
2009: -5.5M
2010: +1.3M
2011: +1.9M

So with the all-so-important Bush tax cuts helping businesses hire we only LOST 3.6M jobs.

Research it yourselves. Try and correlate top-tier tax rates with job creation and economic expansion. I dare you.



US population in 2000 = 281.5 million
US population in 2010 = 315 million

Net loss of jobs = 3.6 million
Net gain of lives = 33.5 million

total losses (lives added and jobs lost)= 37.1 million
total US population on welfare = 50.1 million

The math is simple.

In order to simply break even you must create as many new jobs as lives, neither plan has worked... unless the plan from both sides is a socialist financial slavery system.

God Bless,
edit on 13-11-2012 by ElohimJD because: (no reason given)




posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 02:36 PM
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reply to post by beezzer
 


How long must you keep

that avatar?

edit on 13-11-2012 by Kituwa because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 02:39 PM
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Originally posted by Kituwa
reply to post by beezzer
 


How long must you keep that avatar?



1 week.

(but if I were wealthy, I'd dump it fast! Just like my assets)

edit on 13-11-2012 by beezzer because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 02:42 PM
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reply to post by beezzer
 


That would be today then, right?




posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 03:12 PM
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Originally posted by Kituwa
reply to post by beezzer
 


That would be today then, right?



This is my second avatar of shame

(psst stay on topic)

Unlike the shame of those rich folks, right?



posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 04:01 PM
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reply to post by beezzer
 


Man, and I thought the last avatar was bad, this one takes the cake.
Learn not to bet yet? lol

On topic? Small businesses being sold might retain employees if they are not liquidated by the new owners. Corporations will most likely move their manufacturing overseas, leaving the American worker jobless.



posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 05:20 PM
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reply to post by davcwebb
 


Glad your thread is getting some traction Dav.. bump. Axed my thread
recently, got laid off the Friday after the election. It's not an excuse
for year's end accounting or tax breaks, it's a trend coming for months.
The cliff is real out there now and visible to even the psychomaths
(quote me) in the now not-so-cloistered financial community. The coming
second Big Dipper will be at LEAST as bad as the September of Fannie
and Freddie; just no big stockholder memo from the Royal Bank of Scotland
a month beforehand is necessary.
I'd like the name of the guy in the "Amityville Horror" who did the voice
warning Father Rod Steiger to "GET OOOuut." Watch your precious metals
stock kiddies.. would you rather eat the beans or the label to the can of beans?
I propose to sell my PA system for about a nickel on the dollar before Xmas
and feel good about it; too late to invite Alex up to Chicago and rattle the
Dirksen building now anyway LOL. /sarc/ After buying a little brass maybe
mill a few cigarette lighters.../sarc/



posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 05:26 PM
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Sell away. Enough selling will create a vacuum of needed services and products which the new companies can produce. Just because a rich person sells their business does not negate the demand needed in the marketplace for that product or service. And if they are selling, someone else is buying. While jobs may be shaky, in such types of selling and buying of business, it will eventually level out and create a huge boom of growth.



posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 06:14 PM
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I grant that they are partial numbers, but at least they are numbers provide by the Small Business Administration:


The rate of new startups is down over the past three years because of the recession.
From 2007 to 2010, employer establishment births dropped 12 percent from 844,000 to 742,000 (Source: BLS, BED). Of the total number of firm births, about 85 percent are new employer firms, or startups, that are small businesses while the remaining 15 percent tend to be new locations for existing businesses that expand their operations.

The recent recession hit startups of new employer firms particularly hard.
In the second quarter of 2008, the establishment startup rate (the percent of all firm establishments in a given quarter that did not exist in the previous quarter) fell below 3 percent for the first time since figures were recorded in the early 1990s, and has remained below 3 percent since. The latest startup rate for which data is available is 2.7 percent in the second quarter of 2011 (Source: BLS, BED).

Startups now accounting for fewer jobs than in the past.
While the number of establishment births by mid-2011 is at a similar level to the first quarter of 1999 (when employment from startups peaked), employment at startups in the current data is only about 45 percent of that peak figure (Source: BLS, BED). This means that the startups being created now are smaller on average than they were in 1999. This results in fewer new jobs being created by startups.

How does the startup rate affect the total number of employer firms?
The total number of employer firms delined significantly during the recent recession. However, as establishment deaths have been in steady decline since the fourth quarter of 2008, much of the decline in the total number of employer firms can be traced to the relatively low startup rate.
As you see, the blame is being put on the recession. It's hard for me to believe that it will be ending anytime soon. It doesn't look like businesses are going to begin springing up in our current situation.



posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 06:19 PM
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Still doesn't matter.
They could tax every rich person to the hilt and never cover the 1.5 trillion a year that is being spent over what can be taken in.
The spending is going to increase until the dollar collapses.
They have no control of themselves in DC but they blame it on people that actually make money instead of blaming it on the government that only knows how to print it and make it disappear.



posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 06:29 PM
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Originally posted by ExPostFacto
Sell away. Enough selling will create a vacuum of needed services and products which the new companies can produce. Just because a rich person sells their business does not negate the demand needed in the marketplace for that product or service. And if they are selling, someone else is buying. While jobs may be shaky, in such types of selling and buying of business, it will eventually level out and create a huge boom of growth.

Wow. Sounds like the free market capitalism that everybody hates.



posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 06:30 PM
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And so it begins....


(sorry, couldn't resist)



Seriously though, hard times be headed this way.

X



posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 07:34 PM
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May plan.....get as far off the grid as i can, and bury my wealth in metals......
the hell with the world...its too big NOT to fail.....
The end is nigh!



posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 07:45 PM
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Originally posted by LiveEquation
reply to post by davcwebb
 


It only shows how greedy the wealthy are, all they care about is their wealth. Their employees are just a means to that wealth


First let me say, I can't stand how greedy business people ship their companies over seas to generate more of a profit. But lets be serious, people start companies to make money for themselves. Why would anyone start a company and go through all that headache for any other reason than to make as much money as possible. The problem lies in the fact that there is so much variance from the life styles here in the US and every where else in the world. The world is only as strong as our weakest link. We have to bring up the entire world otherwise nothing will change.

There is no way to prevent a full scale collapse. We can continue to prolong it, maybe another 5-10 years but we can't keep paying almost $2 trillion a year in interest. After the dust clears maybe we can rebuild the society on a non-debt basis. But on the bright side, our lifestyles will be more like the other country's life styles so jobs will return.



posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 07:50 PM
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Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by davcwebb
 


Blame the rich because they (the rich) don't want to just hand over all their assets to the government for wealth distribution.

*shakes fist at the rich*

They don't want to hire people either....
They want to avoid paying ANY taxes period.

It's not about them handing over ALL their assets, its about them actually paying some taxes, giving their fair share. With all of the loopholes, Many corporations end up not paying any taxes at all.....

It wasn't Bush or Obama who caused the economic crash, it was the RICH who manipulated the rules and did very risky things with OUR money.

It is SOLELY the RICH PEOPLE'S fault! That's a #ing fact.
edit on 13-11-2012 by Ghost375 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 08:13 PM
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Originally posted by micmerci

Originally posted by detachedindividual

Originally posted by micmerci
...And they all said 'just tax the wealthy more, that'll fix the problem'. They wont sell off assets. They won't slow the economy. They won't hand out massive layoffs and take their businesses elsewhere. This will work trust me.

Yeah right




Oh, and BTW, blaming Obama for this is so asinine it's unreal! You do realize that Romney would have to face EXACTLY the same problem as president too, right? That was one reason I actually wanted Romney to win, because he would have enraged so many rabid Republicans with the actions he would have HAD TO TAKE regardless of the corporate idiocy of his party.


Ummm...I checked and double checked my post and for the life of me I could not see any mention of OBAMA in it.


Sorry, I was responding to the general feel of several posters, not specifically you. I should have added a dividing line somewhere to make the clear,



posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 08:35 PM
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Originally posted by DarthMuerte
I am personally aware of four businesses that have laid off employees since the election. Additionally, my partner and I have converted all of our employees to 1099 independent contractors. Only 2 did not want to make the change, so they now can go collect their unemployment for however long that lasts

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

I've had an employeer pull this crap on me before...
I don't know the specifics on your company, but I hope that you realize that if your employees do not meet the IRS set criteria of being a “contractor”, you are in legal violation for tax evasion and workmans comp fraud...


Independent Contractor (Self-Employed) or Employee?
Common Law Rules

Facts that provide evidence of the degree of control and independence fall into three categories:

1) Behavioral: Does the company control or have the right to control what the worker does and how the worker does his or her job?
2) Financial: Are the business aspects of the worker’s job controlled by the payer? (these include things like how worker is paid, whether expenses are reimbursed, who provides tools/supplies, etc.)
3) Type of Relationship: Are there written contracts or employee type benefits (i.e. pension plan, insurance, vacation pay, etc.)? Will the relationship continue and is the work performed a key aspect of the business?


Workmans Comp Scams
Stolen premiums

Dishonest business owners will illegally reduce the workers comp premiums they owe.

Premium swindles can be hard to discover. Businesses often hide their premium scams behind dummy companies, fake accounting, tax records and other coverups.

These cons often are complex and well-hidden. They can take much time, effort and financial expertise to discover, and convict in court.

If you are calling your employees “Contractors” and they do not meet those criteria, and NOT paying workman’s comp insurance, you can end up with serious fines and prison time in many states.

Any employees you terminated for refusing to yield to this have been wrongfully terminated, and can sue you for it. They are also entitled to a reward payment in most states if they report you for failing to pay your workman’s comp insurance.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.
edit on 11/13/2012 by defcon5 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 08:43 PM
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Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
By all means, PLEASE LEAVE, and prove that the rich are foolish as well.

To give up the open market is to leave the market to competitors. Capitalists are as expendable as any other corporate entity in USA.

You leave, another will take your place, and reap whatever you had foolishly or ineptly left behind. The world stops for no one.

And as you had been selfish in not paying your taxes and paying right to americans - GET THE HELL OUT!!!

And leave the new market opportunities for genuine americans to share wealth together, on american soil, with tax incentives, funding, innovation and international partnerships/protection.

FINALLY, the exploitive rich are leaving...never thought I would be alive to see this day.



Agreed

if they don`t want to pay their fair share of taxes and don`t want to pay their employees a living wage then should get their parasitic treasonous butts out of america,they aren`t real americans anyway.They don`t represent the spirit of america or the spirit of what made america great they are treasonous parasites who won`t heed their countries call for help in it`s time of need.



posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 08:51 PM
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Originally posted by DarthMuerte
I am personally aware of four businesses that have laid off employees since the election. Additionally, my partner and I have converted all of our employees to 1099 independent contractors. Only 2 did not want to make the change, so they now can go collect their unemployment for however long that lasts. Beyond that, I know one business that has already closed, the owner decided to just retire and shut his doors after selling all of the fixtures and inventory. That is another 60 people on the dole now. I also know of another business that is for sale with the owner very motivated to sell before December 31st. Good work electing the socialist people. I am willing to bet that these scenes are repeating in most communities all over the country.


Sorry, but this is just BS. If you pay these employees regularly the IRS will be up your bum in no time. You just can't overnight not consider people employees. I would bet one of them will cause you significant legal problems. The business that closed must not have been making money or it would be have sell-able as an operating entity for much more money. The laying off of employees likely has nothing to do with the election but more likely because of crappy current biz conditions (monopolies raising prices under low demand). The guy who is contemplating selling will just be exchanging ownership. The company will live on just with a different owner. I really fail to see how Obama winning the election is responsible for any of this or fear of taxes which hasn't yet materialized. Regardless these businesses will end up in the hands of those who care to pay their share and who take care of their employees which will mean a more positive economic environment for the future. How could getting rid of selfish, uncaring people who take advantage of their employees ever be a bad thing. We will be just fine without you - go live in a hole somewhere for all I care.



posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 08:52 PM
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reply to post by Ghost375
 


Actually its the fault of the government. With idiots like Barney Frank wanting lending requirements eased, so that every ghetto family with 10 kids and a net income of $8 a month can have a $300,000 house of their own.

Reckless governmental spending will be why this country collapses.





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