What the... Is this what Kindergarteners learn?

reply to post by mr10k


Can I come to your school?

My grandson who I'm helping raise - - - taught himself to read at age 3. (he's not 5 yet).

He just went through a bunch of tests and they're trying to figure out what to do with him.

I'd welcome that kind of a challenge for him.

Originally posted by Shaxuul
Wow, they're making my 5-year-old niece (whose in Kindergarten) practice memorizing her ABCs, and pronounce words. I dunno, that questionnaire about a book does seem a bit 'ahead' for Kindergartners. Maybe they should've re-wrote the questions with Kindergarteners in mind, and left out words like like 'proposed,' and 'alternative.'

edit on 12-11-2012 by Shaxuul because: (no reason given)

my 3 year old daughter knows her abc's can find all the proper letters on the keyboard at random their little brains just absorb anything and everything why not push them ( ETA Not to the point where they get frustrated still needs to be fun) . also I think a child should know their abc's before kindergarten.

I would chalk that up to typical lazy parenting and people expecting the schools to raise their children that seems to be on the rise in the last 2 decades

Originally posted by Shaxuul
Wow, they're making my 5-year-old niece (whose in Kindergarten) practice memorizing her ABCs, and pronounce words. I dunno, that questionnaire about a book does seem a bit 'ahead' for Kindergartners. Maybe they should've re-wrote the questions with Kindergarteners in mind, and left out words like like 'proposed,' and 'alternative.'

edit on 12-11-2012 by Shaxuul because: (no reason given)

I agree. I'd also be curious to know what the racial breakdown is of the children they're asking this sumnation of? I'd be pretty discouraged to find out that it's some "whiter" school district somewhere. If these kids are being asked these highly anylytical questions at such a young age, I would so hope that it was in a racially diverse populace.

The assignment doesn't seem that unusual to me.

Since it is Kindergarten, and the students are learning to read, my guess is that the assignments are possibly meant to be done with a parent. The wording seems directed towards an adult.

I would also venture to say these same reports have probably been modeled over and over in the classroom as a whole class. The teacher would have read a book and they would have filled out the sheet together. This way they knew how to do it when they got home.

The only problem with an assignment like this is lack of support at home. The amount some parents just plain don't care is astonishing. If you don't care about your child's school work, what makes you think they will? Even if you work and can't be home to do homework with your child you can make sure someone is helping them and you can even give it a glance over to see how they did.

reply to post by mr10k


Personally I think that those are awesome questions, and I applaud the school district that you have your child enrolled in. If they are truly asking questions of that caliber at such a young age then that is good for the child, it helps stimulate the mind at a early age which has been proven to make your brain develop and learn new things faster. Heck a new born fresh out of the womb will go from baby speak to speaking any language in the world in a matter of 2-4 years, and by the time they are 6 they have a general mastery of that said language and possibly more if they live in a bi or tri-lingual house. Kids brains are like sponges and absorb material like you wouldnt believe. My daughter just turned 4 and already she can recite her abc's, address, phone number, count to 100, and do simple math adding number single digit numbers together, she doesnt quite grasp subtraction yet lol but she will get there.

Also from my personal experience although i am 25, i still remember some parts of elementary school and I remember the kindergarden teacher reading to us and asking us questions after the story as a group, and then in 1st grade we learned multiplication, division, an how to write in cursive as well as do a basic general report on a country of our forefathers heritage... and that was 1st grade 19 or so years ago.

Anyways to make a long story short, dont teach your child the questions are hard, and think that the educator is trying to railroad your child. Instead help your child, and encourage them to value knowledge and watch them seek for more... the second you as a parent say this is to hard for you right now, its like a mental dam and could result in the child thinking that they are entitled to easier things because they are conditioned to be that way.... you dont become more intelligent by doing doing simple tasks, you become more intelligent when you challenge and stimulate the mind.

Also people talk about the dumbing down of america and while i agree with that statement when your child hits middle school and high school I dont think it has hit the elementary level. Because at that age you are learning fundamental things on which to build from, only later can they try and teach your children that the false hoods of the civil war, ww2, and american history.

/end rant

Yes I understand this is not that severe, but it's just when did they make it so intense for 5 year olds. I mean it's not bad to challenge them but I mean really. One of the questions was even "What can you describe as the beginning, climax, and winding down point in the story?". It's just I was never asked things like that until like 2nd or 3rd grade, and she isn't even 1st grade yet.

I don't mean it's bad. It's good, but I mean, when did this happen is what I'm saying.

Originally posted by QueSeraSera

Originally posted by Shaxuul
Wow, they're making my 5-year-old niece (whose in Kindergarten) practice memorizing her ABCs, and pronounce words. I dunno, that questionnaire about a book does seem a bit 'ahead' for Kindergartners. Maybe they should've re-wrote the questions with Kindergarteners in mind, and left out words like like 'proposed,' and 'alternative.'

edit on 12-11-2012 by Shaxuul because: (no reason given)

I agree. I'd also be curious to know what the racial breakdown is of the children they're asking this sumnation of? I'd be pretty discouraged to find out that it's some "whiter" school district somewhere. If these kids are being asked these highly anylytical questions at such a young age, I would so hope that it was in a racially diverse populace.

you know that most likely that it isnt, so why even ask the question....

Currently I live outside of detroit and i can tell you that their school district is horrible, and they do not ask much of their students and that is the ones who even bother showing up to class in the first place....

fact of the matter is statistics show that poorer communties such as the ethnic communites in detroit do not value education as much as richer less densely ethnic communities do. I grew up in a caucasin community, and went to a 98% caucasian school district in ohio. from my graduating year alone out of 852 students only about 19 of them did not graduate on time. Compare that number to detroit and youll see pretty much the reverse.

Parents need to teach child to value education, and the parents need to be home to parent their children.

I know that is hard in this current economy to have a stay at home parent, or to have the parents home when the child is there. Heck I work 10 hour days as a mechanic at a local airport, and then moonlight part time at a local machine shop just so my wife doesnt have to work so that she can be home with our daughter.

Originally posted by mr10k
Ok. My sister recently got a couple questions regarding a book she was supposed to read in class. Keep in mind this is Kindergarten....

1. What is the problem proposed in the story?

2. Can you name an alternative for the solution in the story?

3. What are the characters in the story?

4. What is the setting of the story?

5. Did you like this story? If so, what did you like about it? Would you recommend this to a friend?

Are these the questions K-ers are supposed to answer these days? Also, there are actually 12 questions in total, and she has to answer ALL of them. These aren't just her questions, they were given to the whole class. And I think she gets one like this every week, I believe.

I cannot for the life of me understand the response to this thread.

A child of kindgarden age is but a sprout that has recently sprung a small shoot, not a fully grown tree that can be admired for its years of living wisdom!

At this age children do not (and in my opinion SHOULD not) have to deal with words such as proposed and alternative, or concepts such as setting and recommendation. We push these kids to be little adults and thus they skip a most vital part of their lives: childhood.

Children are still coming into the world, learning about the ways in which this planet and relationships upon it functions and have not even fully discovered the self yet! A child of 2 starts to fully percieve the fact that he is apart from his mother and not the same as her. Coming into the self is a long process and definately not completed by kindergarden. It is a process that never completes itself till death as the human's main mission is to grow and change and learn about himself and his creator, but at kindergarden age it is not yet adequately developed to confront adult language and expressions as sophisticated as expressed in the questionair.

Why the rush?

Forcing a young plant to grow quicker than it's natural cycle, can only lead to damage and loss.

When will we start understanding that being a child to the full sense is a vital brick in the foundation of becoming a succesfull adult?

This is why I choose Waldorf education for my child.

Originally posted by UnlimitedSky

At this age children do not (and in my opinion SHOULD not) have to deal with words such as proposed and alternative, or concepts such as setting and recommendation. We push these kids to be little adults and thus they skip a most vital part of their lives: childhood.

Why would you think that learning concepts and words at a younger age is wrong? Children are not in school 24/7. When my children were in kindergarten it was for 1/2 a day.

That still leaves them plenty of time to be just plain old kids.

Originally posted by mr10k
Yes I understand this is not that severe, but it's just when did they make it so intense for 5 year olds. I mean it's not bad to challenge them but I mean really. One of the questions was even "]?". It's just I was never asked things like that until like 2nd or 3rd grade, and she isn't even 1st grade yet.

I don't mean it's bad. It's good, but I mean, when did this happen is what I'm saying.

edit on 12-11-2012 by mr10k because: (no reason given)

Dear Mr 10K

This is outragious! What can you describe as the beginning, climax, and winding down point in the story

For a 5 year old??!!

What are they trying to do to these kids?

I strongly disagree with you. You say you don't mean it is bad. It's good....................!

No Mr 10K, in reality, this is very very bad for kids. There is nothing good in it.
Expecting a young seedling to produce shade for 10 people is bad.

My heart cries for what they are doing to our kids.

They cannot possibly percieve climax or winding down yet and it can only lead to pretending they understand and actual confusion at a time when their perception of self is vulnerable. Perception of abstract concepts only start developing later and is not appropriate for a 5 year old. They are still finding their way into the concrete world and is not ready for any of these things. It is a shame.

Yes, I worked with small children for very long and truly understand them.

reply to post by Sissel


If my subsequent reply does not answer your question about why they should not learn these more sophisticated words please be patient, I will give a referenced reply later.

Here by me it is now 8:21 am and I must get myself off to work where I do not go on ATS. I will reply tonight or tomorrow moring.

Briefly: a very young child cannot percieve the abstract concept of climax, so there is nothing for him to connect the word with!

Originally posted by UnlimitedSky
reply to post by Sissel

 

If my subsequent reply does not answer your question about why they should not learn these more sophisticated words please be patient, I will give a referenced reply later.

Okay, thanks. I noticed that you said you worked with children so I am interested in your reply.

Briefly: a very young child cannot percieve the abstract concept of climax, so there is nothing for him to connect the word with!

A young child is also not sure how to perceive tying a shoe, either. They have to practice it over and over until they figure it out. Isn't learning anything the same, whether it's vocabulary, or math?

What about child prodigies?

Before kindergarden I was taught how to identify different trees. How to strike flint and steel to get a spark for tinder. Heck I even fixed a broken wind up clock after taking it apart to see how it worked with my own tools that Grandpa had given me. I could also read and write as well has purchase things with money and know how much change to expect in return. And even more complicated problem solving and simple mechanical properties like ropes and pulleys and why bricks and blocks are staggered on a wall.

Children are exceptional learners if you get them interested in something. In retrospect, Grandpa was probably very happy that he didn't explain exactly what tinder was when demonstrating the flint and steel, especially after the disassembling the clock episode. Because I did grasp the idea of how to pile up twigs correctly and would try to light them with the flint and steel on a regular basis.

reply to post by trollz


Says the kid with a supposed 142IQ

I'm not saying all kids should be held back because of the dumdums as was the case when I was in blue ribbon schools, but think kindergarten aged kids simply aren't this advancedin general.

The problem is the slight linear progression with each successive grade. Only the least bright need that much repitition to master the concept. I think our educational system should have more tiers than it currently does.

My district had at least three groups which were based on aptitude. The dumb, the average, and the bright. It seems many other districts didn't do this.

reply to post by obnoxiouschick


Just wondering, how do you expect us to advance if we don't require more knowledge from our children?

reply to post by UnlimitedSky

I hope you get many a star for your insight and I just couldn't agree more. The kids do need to have "childhood" for those who forget what that is and the idea of them being structured into formal teaching to the level the OP describes seems outrageous. Kindergarten was about learning to socialize, play, share and resolve conflict by trial and error. Things like motor skills with arts type stuff and generally very subtle structure to a fun type approach. 1st grade was where rows of desks and teaching as a structured "obey and that's the end of it" started.

No one does let kids just BE kids... They gotta know the environmental issues well enough to actually stress over it. Kids... stressing over something even adults can't do much about. They get everything else like sexual orientation well before they even have sex ed ...yet drivers ed is apparently a thing of the past. It just makes no sense. My son just entered Middle School and their statement during his IEP (He's special needs) was that Middle School is all about preparing them for High School. Well..what happened to focusing on just teaching the grades like they once did?

It's no wonder kids drop out at the rates they do. They're probably suffering stages of actual burn out before the end of 12th grade with the teaching to test approach these days.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000

My son just entered Middle School and their statement during his IEP (He's special needs) was that Middle School is all about preparing them for High School. Well..what happened to focusing on just teaching the grades like they once did?

I think I understand what you are saying, but, every grade that a child is in, is a preparation to advance to the next one. I'm well past general education, but even when I was in school, and my children were in school, this is the way the teachers always explained it at conferences.

It's no wonder kids drop out at the rates they do. They're probably suffering stages of actual burn out before the end of 12th grade with the teaching to test approach these days.

I had a child that dropped out because he was bullied so horribly. He finished school at home.

Oh, as to drivers ed? When my oldest son was ready to take it, the school had done away with it. When I inquired as to why, I was told that the expenses of insurance, vehicle maintenance, etc..were no longer in the budget. All my children had to enroll in driving schools, which was fine with me, because I didn't have to have much to do with it. For about $350.00 a pop, the driving school would come pick them up and take them to practice in their cars, and even went with them to take the written test. So be prepared to come out of pocket for that. By the way, my kids had to be enrolled in driving school to even get a learners permit, so, you can't just do it yourselves at home anymore, at least in the state where we lived at the time.

Anyone complaining that our children are too smart, or being asked too much in school should let the message of this song sink in nice & deep.

Posted the clean version to make sure I follow T&Cs.

reply to post by Sissel

Thats true on each being a preparation for the next, and I might have worded that a bit wrong. When I was in school, each grade was teaching and focused on the material at that level....not a rat race to meet the qualifications and benchmarks to look right for the next. The teaching to the testing ..which I know isn't the teachers fault by any means... has seemingly ruined what wasn't all that great a system in many ways to start with, IMO.


As far as drivers ed, it's not so much that I'd personally look at school supplied drivers ed for my son as any end point. It would be a starting point and I have no problem with cost. In fact, I really hope I can find a course he can go through for what would likely come under 'performance' driving. The training I got as a trucker for loss of control..deliberate..of a vehicle saved my life more than one time on ice and water conditions.

Drivers ed at schools simply gave a baseline standard taught roughly the same way as a uniform area of curriculum rather than the 'within regulations' versions offered differently by every private driving school out there. It's a pet peeve actually, because we have 4 Universities and more for other schools in this town and it's like Mr. Toads wild ride mixed with Driving Miss Daisy in some parts of town during the start of semesters, It's that common standard I think we've lost.

Originally posted by UnlimitedSky

Originally posted by mr10k
Yes I understand this is not that severe, but it's just when did they make it so intense for 5 year olds. I mean it's not bad to challenge them but I mean really. One of the questions was even "]?". It's just I was never asked things like that until like 2nd or 3rd grade, and she isn't even 1st grade yet.

I don't mean it's bad. It's good, but I mean, when did this happen is what I'm saying.

edit on 12-11-2012 by mr10k because: (no reason given)

Dear Mr 10K

This is outragious! What can you describe as the beginning, climax, and winding down point in the story

For a 5 year old??!!

What are they trying to do to these kids?

I strongly disagree with you. You say you don't mean it is bad. It's good....................!

No Mr 10K, in reality, this is very very bad for kids. There is nothing good in it.
Expecting a young seedling to produce shade for 10 people is bad.

My heart cries for what they are doing to our kids.

They cannot possibly percieve climax or winding down yet and it can only lead to pretending they understand and actual confusion at a time when their perception of self is vulnerable. Perception of abstract concepts only start developing later and is not appropriate for a 5 year old. They are still finding their way into the concrete world and is not ready for any of these things. It is a shame.

Yes, I worked with small children for very long and truly understand them.

I love how you equate a child to a seedling, go hug a tree hippy and actually learn something and be a parent. Dont tell me you're also one of those parents who dont punish their kids and make them sit in a chair against the wall for 5 minutes.... give me a break