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There are 30 manuscripts of Rigveda at the Bhandarkar Oriental Research Institute, collected in the nineteenth century by Georg Bühler, Franz Kielhorn and others, originating from different parts of India, including Kashmir, Gujarat, the then Rajaputana, Central Provinces etc. They were transferred to Deccan College, Pune, in the late nineteenth century. They are in the Sharada and Devanagari scripts, written on birch bark and paper. The oldest of them is dated to 1464. The 30 manuscripts were added to UNESCO's "Memory of the World" Register in 2007.[28]
Of these 30 manuscripts, nine contain the samhita text, five have the padapatha in addition. Thirteen contain Sayana's commentary. At least five manuscripts (MS. no. 1/A1879-80, 1/A1881-82, 331/1883-84 and 5/Viś I) have preserved the complete text of the Rigveda. MS no. 5/1875-76, written on birch bark in bold Sharada, was used by Max Müller for his edition of the Rigveda with Sayana’s commentary.
Max Müller used 24 manuscripts, while the Pune Edition used over five dozen manuscripts, but the editors of Pune Edition could not procure many manuscripts used by Max Müller and by Bombay Edition, as well as from some other sources; hence the total number of extant manuscripts must surpass perhaps 80 at least.[29]
Prof. Madathilparampil Mammen Ninan B.Sc., B.Ed., M.Sc., M.Ed., Ph.D.,
Web Site: www.oration.com...
Phone: (408) 448-3385
Email: [email protected]
Prof. Ninan was born in Kozhencheri, Kerala, India on 08/04/1934 in a Syrian Christian Family which claims descent from one of the four families to whom St.Thomas the apostle of Jesus entrusted the gospel. His father Late.M.M.Mammen, was a publisher Freedom fighter and Christian Reformer. His eldest Brother is the well known theologian Late Dr.M.M.Thomas, who was the Chairman of the World Council of Churches, the Governor of Nagaland, India and the Chairman of the Christian Institute of Study of Society and Religion. He belongs to the Malankara Mar Thoma Church, a reformed church holding the theology of the Eastern Churches which claims a 2000 year old heritage.
He is by profession a Professor of Theoretical Physics and had been a teacher in various universities around world including Ethiopia, Ghana, Jamaica, Sudan, Yemen, India and United States of America. He retired as the President of the Hindustan Academy of Engineering and Applied Sciences, Affiliated to University of Bangalore, India
He was the first Moderator of the International Christian Fellowship, Sanaa, Yemen and the Co-founder, Sudan Pentecostal Church. He has published several studies on the influence of Christianity in the formation of Hindu religion and religious scriptures.
Vedic Religion (13C BC)
Vedic Religion is what the Aryans brought into India from their original homelands.
Who were the Aryans? Despite the recent attempt by the Indian Hindu extremists to establish that Aryans originated from India, there is no evidence to indicate any such fact historically, linguistically or archeologically. The Aryans were nature worshippers. Zoroastrians –the sun and fire worshippers - claim themselves as Aryans. Cyrus, Darius, Xerxes, and other Persian Kings claimed that they were Aryans. (The Parsees of India are the descendants of these Kings who migrated to India under Islamic persecution). According to Zoroastrian Sacred book, “Zend Avesta,” the original abode of these people was the Polar Regions of Siberia. They moved to the Middle East because of increasing coldness of the region. Another group arrived in the region over the sea from Camphtor. Still another group arrived from Sub Saharan desert according to some scholars. This mixed race was known as Hittites. The Indian Aryans are the descendants of Hittites. They were warriors and had no written language. They were good at storytelling and worshipped the forces of nature. They retained there stories and ideals through songs and ballads. During the invasion of Canaan by Israel under Commander Joshua, these Hittites were forced to move out of their land. This is exactly the time (around 1300 BC) when Aryan migration to India took place. Just as Israelites massacred the Canaanites, Aryans massacred Dravidian Indians. The conquest of India must have taken several centuries. By the 7th C BC (or by 2nd C BC at least), they were even in Sri Lanka, conquering the Giant King Ravana. However, they were not able to control south India and only had a weak presence in those areas. Today the Brahmin families in Kerala can claim their descent only after sixth C. AD. Something happened to the Brahmins in Kerala between the second Century BC and sixth Century AD. The reason for their disappearance will be clear when the Thomas story unfolds.
Vedic religion was not Hinduism, as we know today. There are four Vedas (Sacred Scriptures) in Hinduism today. If which only the Rig Veda was in existence at the time Thomas entered India in written form. Additionally, the Rig Veda was not written in Sanskrit but in Vedic or Avestan, which is a form of Persian. These portions of Rig Veda were written down only by the 2nd C BC.
Chapters II and X and other three Vedas are written in Sanskrit and are of later Post Christian Period. We will deal with this later, as they are very important in our study.
The hymns of Rig Veda were simply psalms to their nature gods – 33 gods can be counted including the later Vedic gods. However, none of these gods are found among the gods of Hinduism today. It is thus evident that though in order to push the date of heritage, Hinduism claim that Vedism was the start of Hinduism, the fact remains that there is very little relation between them. This is a critical issue and the fact will emerge as we deal other areas of study. The Pre-Christian Vedic religion had absolutely no concept of a God of gods or of a supreme God.
There might have been other forms of local religions in various parts of India in addition to the three major religions as well. There are evidences that indicate the Dravids who were the creators of ancient Mohen Jodero civilizations and who today occupy the Southern part of India are the descendants of Abraham through his third wife Keturah. Bible indicates that these children were send to the East when Isaac was given his inheritance. DNA evidences do concur in this regard.
Parameshwara. [Iswara is God. Param means Most High.]
The prescript Param can be replaced with Maha meaning “The Great” to give Maheshwara – The Great God.
These words Parameswara and Maheswara occur in Indian religious scenario only after the first century.
This was very new to the Indian continent. It transformed all the religions of India – Vedism, Buddhism, and even Jainism to some extent. The idea that there is a Personal God who is Omnipotent and loving changed the whole theology of Indian continent as the later religious scenario shows. The extent of this impact indicates that Thomas established churches with Jesus as center of worship as the Parameshwara throughout India.
Originally posted by godlover25
reply to post by MonkeyFishFrog
Deceptions abound.
The NT was written between 40 A.D. and finished by 100 A.D. the Revelation being the last Book, written around 96 A.D. while John was in exile on the Greek isle of Patmos.
The manuscript evidence cannot be denied, and your ideas are just simply wrong.
Wrong, wrong, wrong.
Our latest findings regarding the early version of Mark show that this was written at about
the time of Claudius Caesar, by the grandfather of Arrius Piso. That version was apparently
only a bare sketch and most likely did not give a name to the 'messiah'. That appears to
have been done later by the person who actually played 'Jesus' in the Gospels - Arrius Piso
The version that we are familiar with was written about the year 73 CE by Arrius Calpurnius
Piso.
Arrius Piso was a Roman on his father's side, but a descendant of King Herod on his
mother's side and therefore he knew well about the Jewish religion. He was also a close
relative to the Flavians and even though secretly he could inherit and use the Flavian name
by his mother's descent from them, he gave a story about receiving it from the emperor
Vespasian (in his other identity as Flavius Josephus).
www.angelfire.com...
Originally posted by luciddream
reply to post by NihilistSanta
I always see that during discussion of Ancient India, the Tamil Language is overlooked, it is said that Tamil was the original Native language of India(south), but it has been argued by and forth between Sanskrit and Tamil scholars, but we do know both are Ancient language and Tamil being the only one alive right now.
Tamil is Dravidian group of language(south India primarily), unlike the Aryan's Sanskrit. However Earliest undestroyed document available in Tamil is 150 BC, The Sangam Literature. They also had their own gods which was integrated into Modern Hinduism.
i think Hinduism composed of multiple ancient Indian religions or philosophies, that why the religions such as Buddhism, Jainism and few others share 90% of the concept of Hinduism.edit on 11/9/2012 by luciddream because: (no reason given)
The main language of North India during the ministry of Thomas was Pali and Prakrit - the languages used by Buddhism and Jainism. Dravidian language of Tamil already existed in the south. Evidently, Sanskrit language was made by refining all these common languages.
One of the early exhaustive collections of languages can be found in the Buddhist edicts of Emperor Asoka. (268 -233 BC). His aim was to declare the gospel of Buddha to all his subjects and therefore, he presented this gospel in all languages spoken in the empire. It included Greek and even Aramaic (because there was a small group of Jews in the country). However, there was no Sanskrit in the group, indicating that the language Sanskrit did not exist at that time. We know that Buddhism and Jainism used only Pali and Prakrit languages. In fact, the earliest Sanskrit document ever found dates AD 150. It is evident therefore that Sanskrit came into existence during the period of AD 100 – 150 by refining the existing languages.
There are more than 2,500 Archaeological sites, two-thirds of which are along the recently discovered dried up Sarasvati River bed. These sites show a cultural continuity with the Vedic literature from the early Harrapan civilization up to the present day India.
Originally posted by halfoldman
Proving the claims of any religion can be very difficult, especially with archeology.
This site claims to present scientific verification of Vedic knowledge:
There are more than 2,500 Archaeological sites, two-thirds of which are along the recently discovered dried up Sarasvati River bed. These sites show a cultural continuity with the Vedic literature from the early Harrapan civilization up to the present day India.
www.archaeologyonline.net...
They also claim increasing proof of the ancient submerged city of Dvaraka.
Well, pretty ancient "phallic" Shiva-Lingams have been found, and despite the phallic focus on circumcision in the Bible, I doubt these were symbols brought by Thomas or Christianity, and they remain symbols of devotion by many Hindus to this day.
en.wikipedia.org...edit on 9-11-2012 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)
The mighty Sarasvati River and it's civilization are referred to in the Rig Veda more than fifty times, proving that the drying up of the Sarasvati River was subsequent to the origin of the Rig Veda, pushing this date of origin back into antiquity, casting further doubt on the imaginary date for the so-called Aryan Invasion.
Originally posted by NihilistSanta
Prof. Ninan was born in Kozhencheri, Kerala, India on 08/04/1934 in a Syrian Christian Family which claims descent from one of the four families to whom St.Thomas the apostle of Jesus entrusted the gospel.
His father Late.M.M.Mammen, was a publisher Freedom fighter and Christian Reformer. His eldest Brother is the well known theologian Late Dr.M.M.Thomas, who was the Chairman of the World Council of Churches, the Governor of Nagaland, India and the Chairman of the Christian Institute of Study of Society and Religion. He belongs to the Malankara Mar Thoma Church, a reformed church holding the theology of the Eastern Churches which claims a 2000 year old heritage.
He is by profession a Professor of Theoretical Physics
He was the first Moderator of the International Christian Fellowship, and the Co-founder, Sudan Pentecostal Church. He has published several studies on the influence of Christianity in the formation of Hindu religion and religious scriptures.
It is one of the oldest extant texts in any Indo-European language. Philological and linguistic evidence indicate that the Rigveda was composed in the north-western region of the Indian subcontinent, roughly between 1700–1100 BC[5] (the early Vedic period).