My first foe

Well I've been on ATS for a few years now, and received a message stating that I now have a foe. My first foe! I was sad, at first but then laughed a bit because of the situation. I'll explain...

I had entered a poem into the new writing contest....not for any intentions of winning, but mainly because I love writing and participating with all of the amazing people here. Well, after perusing the rules it struck me as sad how the "competition" was to be judged....not on the merit of the works themselves, but on how many flags each entry gets. So, basically it seems that no matter how good or bad you write the winner is judged by the amount of flags they get. Why not have a college english professor or something judge such contests instead? It makes no sense.

One of the reasons it makes no sense is because there are some really excellent writers whose prose may be so good and amazing yet not win because of this popularity contest.

Matter of fact, I have read some that are quite genious, intelligent, well composed, different, and yet do not recieve any flags...but some are, to be honest, really badly written, contain a, shall we say, dumbed down vocabulary for the masses yet receive tons of flags.

Are we then forced to begin dumbing down our writings, and purposely write badly in order to appeal to the crowd? It seems that way.

So I criticized one work in particular pointing out this fact and was foed by the author lol. I am not upset about that....however it did make me wonder why even hold such competitions if, instead of praising intelligent, unique, and well written works, the masses seem to gravitate towards dumbed down cookie cutter greeting card-esque works and praise those.

I am genuinely confused as to the why....are we that unintelligent? Will we constantly ignore that which we do not immediately understand? Do we not strive to better ourselves by helping those who have real actual talent? Or do we as a community continue to make everything only about popularity...

I hope that in the future we can encourage those who strive to become better, and not continue our current course of belittling those who may be different, or don't always agree with the "crowd".

I shall indeed welcome friend and foe alike equally for we are all riding this same ball of dirt, and share the same eventual fate.

/rant

reply to post by AutOmatIc

Personally, I really wish ATS would disable the Foe status from sending a U2U to the person it's being set on.

I simply use it as nothing more than a semi-public reminder list of who I've either had direct conflict with, and so want to avoid in the future.....or people I disagree with so strongly, not avoiding debate is very likely to be direct conflict. Either way...I don't figure many people read my profile anyway which is why I say Semi-public.

Since it does absolutely nothing else but add the name to that one place...with no consequence otherwise (am I missing something mods? Staff?) then the U2U almost provokes people where it's sometimes meant to be a note for quite the opposite. Just my two cents on how much Foe status means or should mean.

I wouldn't worry too much about the foe thing. He or she was probably hurt by the critique and hit the foe button in haste. It isn't school here and I wouldn't take it so seriously. Your idea of what's good might not be somebody else's and vise versa on what is considered bad.

I haven't read all these poems to judge for myself. I've seen a few because they keep showing up in the new topics stream. I wish it would say poem, to warn me it wasn't an actual discussion. They're popping up in different forums. Why aren't they all put into a contest one of its own?
I hope the contest is over soon. Good luck!

reply to post by AutOmatIc


Don't take it to heart. Having Rivals is awesome !!

From Profile:

My Rivals These are the ATS members who often disagree with me, but challenge me to think harder and push myself to learn more in my quest to deny ignorance..


That says a lot actually.

I know "someone" that uses it as their real friends list !!!!

Meh. The first one stings a bit. The next two or three hundred are much easier.

~Heff

It's funny how much we as a culture adore mediocrity. It's as if we somehow find excellence threatening. That's also the case at every job I've ever worked at, every school I've ever gone to....

Mediocrity is comforting; excellence is not. I was even severely warned, at one job I had, because I was making everyone else look bad. I was too scared to point out that it was everyone else that was making everyone else look bad. I had no choice but to curb myself. No one (above me) ever noticed--or at least never said anything. If they'd been awarding stars, I probably would have had a pocketful.

Anyway: Made a foe! Good work!

I've always thought of a foe as a compliment.

Those who foe you on a whim due to being annoyed, clearly don't know the purpose of it.

Think of them seeing you as a worthy adversary, then it's a good thing.

CX.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Got me thinking here
ATS is sending a u2u after someone add you has a foe
but no u2u when someone add you has a friend

WTH is wrong with ATS
someone has messed up the coding there .. it should be the opposite

reply to post by Hefficide




the first one is like a declaration of war ahah

reply to post by AutOmatIc


I agree with your critique of the poem, but disagree with the writer getting votes based on popularity. I never even knew his name until a minute ago when I figured out which poem you were talking about. He only has like 700 posts. I think he chose a great title and it caught on, nothing wrong with that, it's a good poem. When I read them I start from the bottom and work my way up. I don't read and or care about people names or status in the community, I just read.

I had some one 'foe' me, i didnt mind. I enjoyed our back and forth and total non agreement.

reply to post by AutOmatIc


Enemies are just people that have something to learn...

Don't take it to heart...

embrace them as just another person on his/her journey

reply to post by AutOmatIc


Yup, the competitions here are a popularity contest. Hey, it is what it is.
If I put something up now, it's just for fun.

I'm here for the chat, not for stars and flags.

If I put something up now, it's just for fun. I'm here for the chat, not for stars and flags.

reply to post by jiggerj


HAHAH I gave you a star anyway

Well get to it!! Write that #!


And with that i say, Good night

I agree with you that the boards can be very much like a clique ,some simply don't understand the meaning of the "FOE" button.
It is "respected foe".

reply to post by AutOmatIc


OP? Let me use myself as an example. In the political forums, I can and do get called every name in the book. My intelligence, my ethics, my values are always put in question. I am constantly being insulted.

And I laugh it off. *meh* It's politics.

But as a writer? One harsh comment will have me curled up in a ball. ATS is a stepping stone, a place for people to try out new venues, seek and explore different aspects of themselves and the world. As a long-time writer here, I try to encourage each and every person to write.

Just the attempt at writing merits a Star and Flag, in my opinion, because people are trying. They are putting a real piece of themselves on display.

If you're expecting erudite tomes of distinguished prose, you may be disappointed. People are writing for the first time, or for fun, or to test new ideas.

As for foes? I collect them like Michael Moore collects chins!

Anyway, just my take on it. It's all good.

beez

reply to post by AutOmatIc


So you make a post criticizing a poem written by a grieving father over the loss of his child but you get butt hurt you're foed?

No sympathy or support from me. Hey, I'm just 'being honest.'

Originally posted by AshleyD
reply to post by AutOmatIc

 

So you make a post criticizing a poem written by a grieving father over the loss of his child but you get butt hurt you're foed?

No sympathy or support from me. Hey, I'm just 'being honest.'

Wow lots of replies, I'll try to get to them all as I have time, but I'll start with this one.
If you had read any of my posts you would surely know that, no, I was not "butt hurt" in the slightest. I actually wasn't surprised and even a little amused. I was respectful to the person or "grieving father" and yes I did criticize his prose, here's why. He entered the poem into a contest. Had he just written it and posted it outside of the contest it would be different.

You can't enter something into a contest and not expect criticism as you are competing. I don't think people should just cast a sympathy vote without taking into account the fact that other works are much more deserving ( not talking about mine btw) .

Also if you paid attention, you would know that I myself am a "grieving father" as well. It's like people think I am heartless or something because I pointed out the flaws in the guys prose. I can tell you, I know exactly what it feels like to lose a child. But if you are going to enter a contest it should not be about sympathy votes. Or "my story is more tragic than yours" votes.

It was about the fact that it was a badly written grade school poem that should not win any contests based on sympathy alone. I mean if the prose sucks, well it sucks to be frank.

And lastly, I wasn't asking for nor do I need your sympathy, or support.

But thanks for the reply!

reply to post by AutOmatIc


"""You can't enter something into a contest and not expect criticism as you are competing. I don't think people should just cast a sympathy vote without taking into account the fact that other works are much more deserving ( not talking about mine btw) . """"

Yep. I wouldn't say the poem sucks, it wasn't bad. I'm not giving you any sympathy either, but I will give you my support!!

Here is how I'm doing things. I read about 5-10 at a time. I give out one flag for poem I think meets the task set, and are well written and unique. I star the entries that I like in ANY way.

It IS a popularity contest, pure and simple. So what's the alternative? You want someone to actually work at judging all these poems? Who will you get? How will THEY be selected? Will you be calling bias if they don't praise your "superior" work?

You're asking for the impossible. Over on slashdot.org, a geek site for Linux nerds and other computer pros they always have a "poll" with multiple choice answers. Some are fun; some are more serious. In the explanation they say,

If you're using these numbers to do anything important, you're insane.

Good advice.

Ok, here goes:

@Wrabbit2000 and Ben81

I agree I think there should be equal notifications of friends and foes.

@violet

Your idea of what's good might not be somebody else's and vise versa on what is considered bad.

That is indeed true, and goes for music and art. But in a competition there are technical issues as well that should be considered. And nah, I don't take it all that seriously, there's tons of more important things for me to dwell on in my life to be sure. Thanks for the reply!

@sonnny1

I know "someone" that uses it as their real friends list !!!!

Now that's funny, think I may have to do that myself. And I actually do like having people challenge me, it helps me to grow for sure. Thanks for the reply!

@Hefficide

Meh. The first one stings a bit. The next two or three hundred are much easier.

:O man, I can only imagine having that many foes lol ! Thanks for the advice!

@Ex_CT2

It's funny how much we as a culture adore mediocrity. It's as if we somehow find excellence threatening. That's also the case at every job I've ever worked at, every school I've ever gone to.... Mediocrity is comforting; excellence is not. I was even severely warned, at one job I had, because I was making everyone else look bad. I was too scared to point out that it was everyone else that was making everyone else look bad. I had no choice but to curb myself. No one (above me) ever noticed--or at least never said anything. If they'd been awarding stars, I probably would have had a pocketful. Anyway: Made a foe! Good work!

I totally agree with your sentiment. It seems as though if anyone excels in anything, or goes against the flow, so to speak, that we try to shut them down, attack them, or even ignore them. Yet some of the greatest artists, writers and musicians throughout history have not been mediocre in the slightest, and even ridiculed, and unrecognized until after they were gone. Such is the way of it, but when I write, paint, or play music, I just can't bring myself to follow the "norm"...though I know that if I do, I would probably be a lot richer for it. But would inevitably be unhappy. Anyways, thanks for the reply!

@CX

I've always thought of a foe as a compliment. Those who foe you on a whim due to being annoyed, clearly don't know the purpose of it. Think of them seeing you as a worthy adversary, then it's a good thing. CX.

That's a great way to think about it. Thanks for the reply!

@MidnightSunshine

I don't read and or care about people names or status in the community, I just read.

That's cool, and I think it is really good to stay objective like that when it comes to viewing art, reading prose, and listening to music. Thanks for the reply!

@Akragon

Enemies are just people that have something to learn... Don't take it to heart... embrace them as just another person on his/her journey

Indeed. I do think this is great advice, and will try my best to do just that, embrace them as we are all on our own journeys through this existence. Thanks for the reply!

@jiggerj

Yup, the competitions here are a popularity contest. Hey, it is what it is. If I put something up now, it's just for fun. I'm here for the chat, not for stars and flags.

Glad you do it just for fun! Me too, I don't even concern myself with "winning" or "losing", just thought that it was odd that I was the only one who pointed out that it is not about the works, but about the popularity...good to see I am not the only one. Thanks for the reply!

@AccessDenied

I agree with you that the boards can be very much like a clique ,some simply don't understand the meaning of the "FOE" button. It is "respected foe".

Yea I do understand the meaning myself, and I think it's great for people to agree to disagree, and to challenge each other to strive to grow as a person. It is true most social media is quite clique-ish for sure. Thanks for the reply!

...continued in next post...running out of characters

Continued...


@beezzer

But as a writer? One harsh comment will have me curled up in a ball. ATS is a stepping stone, a place for people to try out new venues, seek and explore different aspects of themselves and the world. As a long-time writer here, I try to encourage each and every person to write. Just the attempt at writing merits a Star and Flag, in my opinion, because people are trying. They are putting a real piece of themselves on display. If you're expecting erudite tomes of distinguished prose, you may be disappointed. People are writing for the first time, or for fun, or to test new ideas.

I think it's ok to receive constructive criticism, but it does take a bit of understanding to realize that the people who do that may just be trying to help you to be better at what you do, and build you up, not tear you down. I think it's great that people are trying, however, if you enter a "competition" you have to expect that there will be some form of technical aspect to your prose that will and should be looked at imho. If they are just writing for the sake of writing outside of a "competition" then it doesn't really matter as the work will be what it is, and is not "up against" other works. Just blindly handing out stars and flags to everyone, well, in my opinion defeats the purpose of having a "competition". It should then just be a "collective writing display" of sorts. Does that make sense? Thanks for the reply, and good luck! (also keep on writing, as we only improve the more we do)

@MidnightSunshine

Yep. I wouldn't say the poem sucks, it wasn't bad. I'm not giving you any sympathy either, but I will give you my support!! Here is how I'm doing things. I read about 5-10 at a time. I give out one flag for poem I think meets the task set, and are well written and unique. I star the entries that I like in ANY way.

I wasn't saying I thought that particular one poem sucked, in fact it wasn't that bad...yet I did voice my opinion on it in the appropriate thread. I do thank you for your support and applaud your way of going about voting. Thanks for the reply!

@shuyler

It IS a popularity contest, pure and simple. So what's the alternative? You want someone to actually work at judging all these poems? Who will you get? How will THEY be selected? Will you be calling bias if they don't praise your "superior" work? You're asking for the impossible.

I agree, and that's what I was disagreeing with, that it's supposed to be a POETRY contest, NOT a POPULARITY or sympathy contest.

And actually it's not impossible to have "judges" at all, I mean, take a look at American Idol (although I hate that show) they have judges, and many other competitions happen all the time all over the world and go smoothly.

The problem is, and I've always said this, that you can't truly judge art. I mean, sure if someone has raw talent it just shows. Either you can sing, or you can't. Either you can draw, or you can't. Either you're good at math or...wait, nobody's good at math lol ...just kidding. Let me ask you...who is a better artist, Monet or Van Gogh? Neither. They are both equally good and amazingly talented at what they did. So you see the problem? Who is a better poet, Edgar Allen Poe, or Ginsberg?

You see what I'm getting at?

I don't think anyone would yell bias, when the popularity (flag) system is already biased. Also, I never stated that I thought my work was "superior" in any way, in point of fact, there are several works I have read that I believe are much better than what I put out there. But, at the same time, I shouldn't be chastised by the group for expressing my opinion on one...because, after all, it IS a "competition"...just sadly not truly a writing competition, but a popularity competition for sure. Thanks for your reply!

Ok, I think I covered them all...whew...back to the grindstone!