What drives some to make the assumption that the U.S. is NOT as Militarily Advanced as it truly is?

Originally posted by SplitInfinityThe release of the FEL's existence to a visiting large Chinese Military Leadership group that was invited to watch U.S. Naval War Games out of Norfolk as well as this Chinese contingent was allowed to travel to many bases all over the U.S. At the time...the Chinese were making SERIOUS THREATS about reclaiming Taiwan. The U.S. Military Planners allowed the Chinese to witness the FEL. This put the entire Chinese Military Leadership contingent in A STATE OF SHOCK. A visiting Chinese Admiral stated to the World Press much to the dismay of the Chinese Communist Party...that the U.S. has nothing to fear from China's Military as the U.S. in his words was Multiple Decades ahead of the Chinese Military.

When the Chinese contingent went home this Admiral was almost arrested and if not for the rest of the contingent backing him up in what he saw...as the Communist Party Leadership did not believe him...he would most likely have been arrested. This placed the Communist Party Leadership in SHOCK. After that...China has no longer made threats about invading Taiwan. It also has helped get a reign on North Korea and has told Iran it will not get involved if the U.S. Military was to take action against Iran.

This is a complete 180 Degree turn on China's previous policies. It was also a BRILLIANT PLAN to show China U.S. Military Capabilities as the Chinese now understood the disparity between Military Power. This Plan most likely stopped the Invasion of Taiwan.

Thanks for the info, Split. As a Taiwanese this is news to me. When did this meeting occur? It makes sense since it seems China has decided to take over Taiwan though economic means rather through outright military conquest. Anyone can see that China could overwhelm Taiwan's military if they so choose. But if this were the case then why doesn't Taiwan declare independence? The only thing stopping Taiwan from declaring independence is the threat of military action from China.

reply to post by PotKettle

Here you go....www.washingtontimes.com...

This will give you what you ask. Split Infinity

reply to post by PotKettle

One other thing. The Chinese really were Hell Bent on reclaiming your Country. And I am sure you remember all the Talk by the Communist Leaderships Military Spokesman as he over several years on multiple occasions stated that Taiwan was a part of China and how China would reclaim her territory.

This visit to the U.S. that the Top Chinese Military Leaders took was a very big EYE OPENER. The actual Military Leadership and not the Communist Parties Military Mouthpiece was allowed to see for itself EXACTLY WHAT THEY WOULD BE GETTING THEMSELVES INTO if they attempted to invade Taiwan.

Such an invasion would be DISASTROUS to China and in particular the Chinese Military as the U.S. Military and especially the U.S. Navy would be easily capable of sinking every Chinese Landing Craft and Troop Carrier as well as OBLITERATING the Chinese Air Force at will.

This reality was a hard pill to swallow for the Chinese Communist Leadership as they had thought that they had such capabilities. They do not. Split Infinity

Here is some info read the posts by "STELLAR X" they are LINKS by U.S. Gov/Mil sources addmitting Russia's tech is just as good as advertised: www.abovetopsecret.com...&mem=StellarX

reply to post by ATSWATCHER

Yes...Russia does have several High Tech. High Velocity Anti-Ship Missiles. This would be prudent since the U.S. has MANY LARGE NUCLEAR CARRIERS. The thing is that these Russian Hyper-sonic Missiles will not have any chance of sinking a U.S. Carrier as the New FEL SYSTEM that is to be installed on all U.S. Carriers as well as come STANDARD on the New Ford Class Stealth Carriers...CVN-78 Gerald R. Ford and CVN-79 J.F.K. which will be put to sea in 2015 and 2020 respectively.

The Free Electron Laser or FEL will easily be able to Vaporize these Missiles no matter how fast or how low they cruise. Split Infinity

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by ATSWATCHER

 

Yes...Russia does have several High Tech. High Velocity Anti-Ship Missiles. This would be prudent since the U.S. has MANY LARGE NUCLEAR CARRIERS. The thing is that these Russian Hyper-sonic Missiles will not have any chance of sinking a U.S. Carrier as the New FEL SYSTEM that is to be installed on all U.S. Carriers as well as come STANDARD on the New Ford Class Stealth Carriers...CVN-78 Gerald R. Ford and CVN-79 J.F.K. which will be put to sea in 2015 and 2020 respectively.

The Free Electron Laser or FEL will easily be able to Vaporize these Missiles no matter how fast or how low they cruise. Split Infinity

You haven't read ALL those links have you, all this tough talk is just that, U.S. tough talk, U.S.A. always says "we've got the solution to the Russkie" problem, and time and time again it's been prooven false, IMHO, 10% of U.S.'s tech is better than Rus's tech, and the other 10% of Rus's tech is better than U.S.A's tech, while over-all 80% of each other's tech is on par with each other's, ;ook at how only 9% of the PAC-1/2 SAMs in Desart Storm did thier job, while 91% DIDN'T till this day the U.S. Mil still lies to the world about who much U.S.A.'s is so much ahead of Rus's tech:


We conclude that the body of video we have reviewed contains data on at least 22 to 23 out of roughly 47 Desert Storm engagements. Of even greater significance, the video appears to include 17 to 18 out of roughly 30 engagements in Saudi Arabia. This indicates that there is a very substantial base of video information from which an assessment of Patriot's performance can be made.

We have found no convincing evidence in the video that any Scud warhead was destroyed by a Patriot. We have strong evidence that Patriots hit Scuds an two occasions (in WSMR Events 8 and 13), but in both cases we found video evidence that the Scud warheads fell to the ground and exploded. These clips suggest that even when Patriots could hit Scuds they were still not able to destroy the Scud warheads. We also have several other clips where it is possible that Patriots hit Scuds without detonating their warheads. but the evidence in these clips is quite ambiguous (see, for example, Additional Event 3).

In addition, we have estimated minimum miss distances for all cases where we could clearly observe Patriot missing Scuds. We present our summarized findings in tabular and graphical form in figures 8, 9 and 1O. The median minimum miss distance was roughly 600 meters. This is much larger than the press video minimum resolvable miss distance of 35 to 70 meters. To achieve lethality against Scud targets, a system like the Patriot must routinely achieve miss distances of meters to tens of meters, not hundreds to thousands of meters as observed in the video. This result of the video review by itself indicates unambiguously that there was a serious problem with Patriot during the Gulf War: www.fas.org...



This new evidence reinforces longstanding concerns about systematic Soviet violations of the ABM Treaty. Battlefield management radars are
the long leadtime component of any ABM defense system and the Soviets seem to have gained a great deal of experience in this field since 1975 when they installed an ABM-X-3 radar in the Kamchatka impact area for their ICBM tests. Over the years, the Soviets have also been upgrading their surface-to-air (SAM) bomber defense systems--now presumed to perform an ABM role. Since the Carter Administration, the Soviets repeatedly have tested various types of SAM missiles in'a discernable ABM mode at altitudes above 100,000 feet and have deployed thousands of less capable SA-5 missiles around-Soviet cities. These illegal ABM activities and the development of an anti-tactical ballistic missle system clearly point to a Soviet decision to subvert the ABM Treaty shortly after signing it.

Refusals to acknowledge these Soviet treaty violations point to the perennial dilemma of what to do after detecting cheating. The Administra-. tion is doingitself and the country no favor by refusing to acknowledge the mounting evidence that the Soviets are developing a capability which seriously erodes strategic stability and will soon permit the Soviet Union to break out of the ABM Treaty. The Administration should document and publicize Soviet ABM activities and Treaty violations. It should accele- rate the U.S. ballistic missile defense (BDM) program. Unless Moscow can refute the evidence that its radar and weapons programs are not de- signed for an ABM role, the U.S. should abrogate the ABM Treaty.www.heritage.org...

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by charlyv

 

The U.S. is now OVERTLY building Direct Energy Weapons and the CVN-78 Gerald R. Ford and the CVN-79 J.F.K. which will be at sea in 2015 and 2020 respectively will have Nuclear Powered FEL's or FREE ELECTRON LASER systems built in to those carriers as well as their carrier groups Aegis Cruisers.

The Ford will replace Enterprise and the J.F.K. was supposed to replace Nimitz but as all other Nimitz class carriers are to be refitted with FEL's and two new A1B Nuclear Reactors...the Nimitz may also be refitted and tasked as the Carrier for a New Carrier Group for protection of Arctic Sea lanes which will be present as by 2015 to 2017 there will no longer be any Arctic Sea Polar Ice.

This will allow shipping to cross over the North Pole and thus the reason for Nimitz to be refitted rather than decommissioned. These New Ford Class carriers as well as refitted Nimitz class carriers along with their Aegis Cruisers will all have FEL's which is a Laser that acts more like a particle beam thus is not effected by atmosphere. Questions have risen as to if the current plan of the use of two A1B Nuclear Reactors will generate enough electricity to properly run the FEL system as for over the horizon targeting...a Specialized group of Satellites that do not use current Laser Reflection Mirrors and Optics as a standard Mirror is Vaporized when an FEL beam encounters it. The FEL Reflection Satellites use a Prism system of Insect Like Multiple Prisms that can turn and vector. They also allow for Multiple Split Beaming for Target and Acquisitioning of Multiple Targets.

This is but one Direct Energy Weapon that will no longer be secret and anyone here can look it up as you just google Free Electron Laser CVN-78 Gerald R. Ford. There is also the MEB...Microwave Emitting Beam which has just been made public in that it exists. The MEB is more secret than the FEL only in that the FEL will be deployed sooner.

The release of the FEL's existence to a visiting large Chinese Military Leadership group that was invited to watch U.S. Naval War Games out of Norfolk as well as this Chinese contingent was allowed to travel to many bases all over the U.S. At the time...the Chinese were making SERIOUS THREATS about reclaiming Taiwan. The U.S. Military Planners allowed the Chinese to witness the FEL. This put the entire Chinese Military Leadership contingent in A STATE OF SHOCK. A visiting Chinese Admiral stated to the World Press much to the dismay of the Chinese Communist Party...that the U.S. has nothing to fear from China's Military as the U.S. in his words was Multiple Decades ahead of the Chinese Military.

When the Chinese contingent went home this Admiral was almost arrested and if not for the rest of the contingent backing him up in what he saw...as the Communist Party Leadership did not believe him...he would most likely have been arrested. This placed the Communist Party Leadership in SHOCK. After that...China has no longer made threats about invading Taiwan. It also has helped get a reign on North Korea and has told Iran it will not get involved if the U.S. Military was to take action against Iran.

This is a complete 180 Degree turn on China's previous policies. It was also a BRILLIANT PLAN to show China U.S. Military Capabilities as the Chinese now understood the disparity between Military Power. This Plan most likely stopped the Invasion of Taiwan.

These are Weapon Systems that the U.S. will be using shortly and there are a few FEL's that are operational now...but it is clear to the Chinese and they even went so far as to verify the FEL's existence by asking Russia which attempted to build it's own FEL but failed...to verify this Quantum Leap in Military Capability. These are weapons we KNOW about. Now imagine the ones we DON'T KNOW about. Split Infinity

Failed, what are you talking about?, Russia help U.S.A. WITH DEW tech:

In 1994-1995, The High Temperatures Institute of the Russian Academy of Sciences sold the Pamir-3U mobile electric generator to the United States. The Pamir-3U had an output of 15 megawatt, dimensions of 2.5 x 2.65 x 10 meters, and weighed about 20 tons. The generator could be used in Russia (USSR) on the ground or in outer space for power supply to long-range laser and super high frequency weapon systems. www.fas.org...

reply to post by ATSWATCHER


Here's more: The Soviet response was immediate. Yuri Andropov ordered additional funding and implementation of Fon-2. At the same time Soviet diplomatic initiatives were undertaken. A proposal was made to the Unite States to ban all space-based weapons. Andropov declared a unilateral moratorium on testing of the improved IS-MU ASAT. As a 'warning shot' the Terra-3 complex was used to track the STS-41-G space shuttle Challenger with a low power laser on 10 October 1984. This caused malfunction of on-board equipment and temporary blinding of the crew, leading to a US diplomatic protest. www.astronautix.com...


We have right now, I believe, one weapons-grade laser operating in the United States. The Soviets have at least ten we have identified and there may be more. At Los Alamos right now our scientists are working on developing a very compact particle accelerator. This is vital work toward the development of something you have all heard about, a particle beam weapon of some kind. At the heart of that system is a Soviet invention dating back to the 1960s called a radio frequency quadrapole. Years ago, the Soviets mysteriously decided that there would be no more literature, open or semi-open, on this or any similar development. Such information suddenly disappeared from these vaunted scientific exchanges that we hear are so important. Of course, the Soviets exchange very little information that is vital to them in these so-called exchanges, anyway. www.heritage.org...

reply to post by ATSWATCHER


Here's more: The Soviets built high-energy laser devices in the 1980s and generally placed more emphasis on the weapons applications of lasers than did the West. The tactical laser program had progressed to the point that by the mid-1980s, U.S. analysts anticipated that laser weapons would be deployed with future Soviet forces.

www.dia.mil...

Particle-beam weapons inflict damage in a similar way. They emit beams of particles, perhaps hydrogen or deuterium ions, at near-light speed. Details remain sketchy, but the principle is essentially the same as in an ion-propulsion system (New Scientist, 21 November 1998, p 22). A working particle beam is believed to have been on board the mysterious Soviet "battlestar" Polyus-Skif, which was launched in May 1987 but crashed during take-off. Polyus-Skif also carried a prototype laser for destroying satellites. In the US, research on particle-beam weapons continues at the High Energy Research and Technology Facility on Kirtland Air Force Base, New Mexico www.jamesoberg.com...

U.S. Fears Satellites Damaged
Peter G. Neumann
Sun 24 Jan 88 14:10:34-PST

Subtitle -- Soviets used lasers to cripple equipment, sources contend.

Washington, by Richard Sale (UPI, 24 January 1988).

U.S. intelligence agencies are convinced Soviet laser attacks have damaged
supersophisticated U.S. spy satellites deployed to monitor missile and
spacecraft launches, administration sources said. These sources said they
believe the Soviets fired ground-based lasers to cripple optical equipment
attempting to scan launches at Tyuratam, the major Soviet space center, to
obtain a variety of sensitive military information. Administration
intelligence sources said they fear that other vital U.S. reconnaissance
satellites will soon be endangered because six new Soviet laser battle stations
are under construction... "There is no way you can protect the optical sensors
on satellites" from laser attacks, an Air Force official said. ...

Intelligence sources acknowledged that the Pentagon also has trained
ground-based lasers on Soviet spacecraft, sometimes in attempts to disrupt
their sensors. .. catless.ncl.ac.uk...

reply to post by ATSWATCHER


That's all of Russia's OLD stuff, guess what they got NOW

Originally posted by ATSWATCHER
reply to post by ATSWATCHER

 

That's all of Russia's OLD stuff, guess what they got NOW

I agree, I feel we are on par in most ways, still, with all of the funding..?

I don't know. Here's one time that I am certainly going to come to Split's defense. Being "blessed" (sic) to see some of the projects we have going on over here in the US, I can without a doubt argue with him that there are just some things that the Russian's do not have an answer for. I'll name two, maybe 3.

Yes, one is the laser. Another, is the plasma/electric weapon being retrofitted to launch vehicles that work on ionizing from the atmosphere of the globe, then accelerating particles/ripping them in half from heat (read: laser), followed by a stream of "lightning" from above. I joked about this once before but it's not really a joke. They proudly displayed this tech on a tank but before it can be fitted elsewhere there was a targeting issue.

A third, since Russia is the topic, is another D-rod accelerator coupled with a kind of rail-gun technology. Merging particles as they are shot out through the gun at high temperatures. As it reaches higher velocity, it cools down, whereas the stage one of the particle accelerator's part ends, as well as the gun itself, and the intended target is laden with high velocity molten materials at high temps. Rather than being just a rail-gun, it becomes a sonic shotgun, as it were. No explosives, no trail, no detonation able upon entering enemy's airspace. Is Russia capable of defending against this?

Anyways, all of these things are moot. Mutual destruction is assured if these two nations ever went full out on each other. One shot to a volcano, another to the tectonic line, another to the ocean. The earth is our weapon these days, and there will never be a defense against that.

Wars are waged differently these days. As with China's bold statement that if they could not take down Taiwan with military arms, they would do so with economics, this was seen too with the US' victory over the USSR as a new world power.

So the US plans to launch vessels soon(ish) that will be able to cope with missiles that the Russians could throw at them right now.....Pretty much demonstrates who has the initiative, doesn't it?

Wanna tell me how those ships will cope with supercavitating torpedoes?

Then there's orbital tech of course; 'rods from the gods' and so on.....The Russians can lift some really sizeable payloads, which is why the US pays them to lift all of theirs.....Wonder how many little surprises they might have left in orbit while popping another TV satellite into geosynchronous orbit over the states?

So.....Do you feel lucky Yanks?

reply to post by squarehead666


Anything in orbit isn't safe. That's the whole purpose of the Mach jets, and space plane research. Mobility. This is one area Russia is at least 10-15 years behind as they've stated themselves. He who rules the skies...

Originally posted by squarehead666
Wanna tell me how those ships will cope with supercavitating torpedoes?

Ah, the old "supercavitating torpedo" argument. There are two big problems with this one (not counting the obvious one of noise since it's possible that when they hear it it's too late). Range, and maneuverability. The current torpedo has a range of about 7 1/2 miles, as opposed to over 30 for the Mk48. There is a version that is supposed to be able to maneuver, but it has to slow considerably, and become basically a normal torpedo to do it.

Then there's orbital tech of course; 'rods from the gods' and so on.....The Russians can lift some really sizeable payloads, which is why the US pays them to lift all of theirs.....Wonder how many little surprises they might have left in orbit while popping another TV satellite into geosynchronous orbit over the states?

So.....Do you feel lucky Yanks?

The US only has to pay them to lift ours because the shuttle is gone. And no rocket in service could lift a payload like the shuttle could. Which makes you wonder, with all those classified payloads it carried up there, what could the US have left in orbit as a surprise?

Sorry to rain on your parade, but both the Russians and Chinese have demonstrated significantly superior orbital shootdown capability to anything we have seen from the US. Russia has always had superior missile technology.....Ask Gary Powers!

I've seen range reports of double that for the Shkval, but the main problem with your argument is the detection range for an attack submarine against that for any surface ship.....In this scenario the sub will almost always have the upper hand.

Even another attack sub would struggle to make a detection without coming within weapon range.....In the event of a near simultaneous launch, the Shkval is likely to destroy its target or at the very least force it to make a sharp evasive manoeuvre and cut guidance to its own torpedoes long before the conventional torpedoes arrive and possibly before they are in range to use their own guidance systems.

A second Shkval salvo or conventional torpedoes (Russian torpedoes are larger diameter and thus significantly more powerful than the Mk.48) launched in conjunction with the initial Shkval salvo would very likely finish the job.

The US has never stopped military launches into space. The only ones the the US uses for payload reasons are those the Russians now provide, but those are observed. Smaller loads launch on an fairly continual basis over here.

I defer to my earlier comment, however. Orbitals are target practice. Goes for both the US and Russia. Thus all the newer tech being used now that does not need GPS, or those larger satellites to work. Tactical is where it's at now. Small unobservables that work just as well, using ultra-frequency as well as just high frequency. These provide more options and will work even under the distress situations of nuclear strikes.

reply to post by SoulVisions


The US had the ability to shoot down satellites since the late 1970s with the F-15 ASAT program (ASM-135) before it was cancelled because it might violate an antisatellite treaty, that the Soviets had already violated at least four times.

The US philosophy in regards to ASAT programs is to use intrusion capabilities to interfered with the satellite from the ground, and disable it that way, instead of sending up dozens of ASAT weapons, and possibly triggering an arms race.

Another program the US has tested is Prowler. It was a classified launch on the shuttle, that put another satellite in front of the signals from the ground, and blocked them from the intended target satellite.

As for the Shkval, yes it's a dangerous weapon, but everyone seems to think it's the be all end all weapon, and it's simply not. If all your target has to do is turn, and you're going to miss, that's not the greatest weapon in the world, that people claim it is.

But I love how people point out Russian equipment and capabilities, and when it's pointed out the US has similar capabilities somehow Russia and China are far ahead of them.

Dude even the Chinese demonstrated a capability to destroy a smaller target than ASAT at at several times the altitude.....I recall jokes about ASAT being the ultimate missile, when what the US really needed was a hittile!

ASAT shot down a satellite in 1985. Long before China ever did. Do you really think the US has no ASAT program since then?

I'm quite sure they had/have a program, but it hasn't produced anything that demonstrably works.....Patriot, once the actual hit-numbers became available, was proven to be borderline useless.

You have been sold the idea that your military hardware is the best in the world, but unfortunately the people doing the selling are pretty much the same ones who run your banks.....They haven't been very honest in either role!

They've taken your money for shoddy gear and will send your friends/family to die in it.....Yet apparently you still believe in and defend these criminals!

So to sum up in a single word 'Dragonscale'!