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Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by frazzle
It's a simple thing in debating the electoral college and that system vs. a popular vote system when both sides are fully aware of how the system works. It's Liberty Vs. An idealized sense of Democracy we've never been.
Now, I don't have to tell you how it worked to help Ron Paul. I don't even have to be the one to say Ron Paul is 110% BEHIND KEEPING the electoral college in place, for all the reasons I've already outlined and more. I don't have to tell you any of that, because Ron Paul said it himself and his own words are far more compelling than mine could be. Lets see what Dr. Ron Paul said on the Electoral College and efforts to end it in December of 2004.
The problem, of course, is that our country is not a democracy. Our nation was founded as a constitutionally limited republic, as any grammar school child knew just a few decades ago. Remember the Pledge of Allegiance: “and to the Republic for which it stands”? The Founding Fathers were concerned with liberty, not democracy. In fact, the word democracy does not appear in the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution. On the contrary, Article IV, section 4 of the Constitution is quite clear: “The United States shall guarantee to every state in this Union a Republican Form of Government” (emphasis added).
^^ That is why it's not just a good idea to have it, it's the only way the United States can work...unless we want to just drop the States part of the name and use America from now on. (Those are HIS words..I didn't choose them)
Source
Not surprisingly, calls to abolish the Electoral College system are heard most loudly among left elites concentrated largely on the two coasts. Liberals favor a very strong centralized federal government, and have contempt for the concept of states' rights (a contempt now shared, unfortunately, by the Republican Party). They believe in federalizing virtually every area of law, leaving states powerless to challenge directives sent down from Washington. The Electoral College system threatens liberals because it allows states to elect the president, and in many states the majority of voters still believe in limited government and the Constitution.
Not my words, there. Although they easily could have been. The Electoral College is, as I said, too complicated an issue to explain and break down in one post. It WILL TAKE a couple hours of honest to goodness...no fun at all...research to learn for one's self and NOT the media tripe, what happens and how this works......since Paul was the ONLY campaign to be giving such training and it's too late for that now.
edit on 23-10-2012 by Wrabbit2000 because: minor correction.
Originally posted by frazzle
Can anyone honestly show how this analysis is wrong? Even in local elections the chamber of commerce has more impact on the final outcome than ordinary voters. Why do we continue on and on and on with the delusion that our votes mean something beyond our own, sometimes very uneducated, opinions?
Originally posted by frazzle
reply to post by Wrabbit2000
PURE popular vote is PURE mob rule on that national office election. No other way to put it.
Sure there is another way to put it. The electoral college is the sure fire way the two major parties have in keeping out third party candidates.
Until we can come up with a better system we're stuck with it.
Originally posted by Trexter Ziam
Originally posted by frazzle
Can anyone honestly show how this analysis is wrong? Even in local elections the chamber of commerce has more impact on the final outcome than ordinary voters. Why do we continue on and on and on with the delusion that our votes mean something beyond our own, sometimes very uneducated, opinions?
We don't have a Chamber of Commerce.
How does the Chamber of Commerce affect elections in areas that DO have one?
Thanks!
www.lewrockwell.com...
Versions of Communities 21 now reach from the change-agents all the way down into private households in many American cities and towns as the sustainability movement spreads. The change-agents’ aim is to bring entire communities into alignment with globalist goals, using whatever techniques of manipulation and behavior modification are necessary. ICLEI’s U.S. branch, based in Berkeley, Calif. (where else?), published a very detailed Local Government Handbook: essentially a guide for sustainability change-agents along the lines of Saul Alinsky’s Rules for Radicals on how to infiltrate towns and communities, win the support of local politicians, local media, business leaders, organizations such as the local Chamber of Commerce, other community leaders including ministers, and win as much support as possible from ordinary citizens by virtue of the bandwagon effect.
Wrong; the way we and States have allowed party politics creep into the electoral college system is what drives the two-party system. Sadly, I will have to say the People and the States are squarely responsible for the current system we operate under.
Luckily and hopefully the People of their respective States will change their electoral process to exclude party-politics; but that will take actual participation and responsibility of free-citizens.
Originally posted by AutOmatIc
reply to post by Wrabbit2000
I get it, but it doesn't work anymore the way it was intended to...which is why you will hear them say that "if you win Ohio you win the election". How is that fair to the rest if the states? The only way to fix it is to give every state the same amount of electoral votes...that way the candidates would be forced to campaign in ALL the states, not just the ones with the most electoral votes.
:also it serves to disenfranchise the voters from their individual votes making their vote in essence meaningless.edit on 23-10-2012 by AutOmatIc because: meaningless
The electoral college was put in place to stop fraud, or make it less easy to fraud.