Or, you know, you could not do that, because you can't because you don't actually know anything about the subject.

i want YOUR answer

Originally posted by boncho
reply to post by Sly1one

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The laws of thermodynamics in regards to perpetual motion machines (or the idea thereof) are clearly referencing usable energy. I had a good article earlier I wish I bookmarked it. Showing how some are negative, positive energies, in relation to the energy we use or how we use it.

It's like how you can create electricity by pouring water down hill with resistance.

the hill would be +1 the water being -1.

At the end you have 0.

If the water could get back to the top of the hill without using a -1 to get there, you would have perpetual motion.

But the only way you are getting it back there is by doing -1 of work. Whether that is you carrying a bucket back to the top of the hill, or the sun's heat evaporating the water to get it there. No matter what, -1 is needed to get usable energy out of the system.

The total energy of the universe consists of the energy due to the motion of all the particles (called kinetic energy), the energy that is stored because of the gravitational forces between the particles (called potential energy), and the energy associated with the mass of all the particles (usually referred to as rest energy).

The key feature to bear in mind is that the gravitational potential energy is a negative quantity. You can see this by realizing that in order to separate two objects, one has to overcome the attractive gravitational force and this requires one to supply positive energy from outside

Originally posted by boncho
reply to post by Sly1one

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I believe this was the article (Found here.):

The total energy of the universe consists of the energy due to the motion of all the particles (called kinetic energy), the energy that is stored because of the gravitational forces between the particles (called potential energy), and the energy associated with the mass of all the particles (usually referred to as rest energy).

The key feature to bear in mind is that the gravitational potential energy is a negative quantity. You can see this by realizing that in order to separate two objects, one has to overcome the attractive gravitational force and this requires one to supply positive energy from outside

Those for, still saying " there have been countless times in history that all those "brilliant" scientists said it was impossible, and they were wrong, flight, telephone, radio, moon landing, orbit, celphone, home computer, internal combustion, electricity, nuclear fusion, nuclear fission, television,organ transplants,remote control,electric motors,satellite communications,etc...

Saying "X" is impossible, is an impossible position.

Originally posted by Chadwickus
reply to post by hawkiye

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No need to call people names, you call people who aren't completely convinced by perpetual motion devices a cult, yet a broad definition of "cult" is a group whose beliefs or practices are considered abnormal or bizarre.

Perpetual motion, whilst not bizarre is as of today abnormal.

You are part of the cult my friend, not them.

But I digress, you need to bring the beef, as it were.

All someone needs to do is bring forward a device that can run an alternator or similar, it truly is that simple.

Torque is the key here, it's the beef your cult needs.

Those who claim it is impossible deny that electrons of rock formations that have been spinning in motion for millions of years are perpetual motion, refuse all reason and logic and stick to a narrow definition are closed minded etc. are a cult they are religious fanatics.

The impossible kinds of perpetual motion machines are those from which you can extract usable energy and the system continues exactly the same way as it did before the energy was extracted, providing an infinite supply of energy. These certainly don't exist. But systems in which the components are constantly in motion and never slow down do in fact exist. The electrons in orbit around the nuclei of atoms are in effect little perpetual motion machines, at least in one construe of what those words mean, because they are perpetually in motion. But energy cannot be extracted from motion of such electrons if they are in the "ground state" (and most atoms are) because there are no lower-lying energy states allowed by quantum mechanics. If the electrons are not in the ground state, you can extract useful energy, but then the atoms go into lower energy states until they reach their ground state, from which no further energy can be extracted.