The Anti Perpetual Motion Conspiracy

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix
reply to post by Moduli

 

I don't claim to be any kind of scientist at all you snake oil salesmen. Thank you for proving me right by your post.

He didn't prove you right. He addressed everything you said and actually countered everything you said without name calling or anything else.

Essentially, you were proven wrong multiple times.

reply to post by hawkiye


Boncho has a good point you know.

Here you are saying how great perpetual motion machines are, yet you haven't built one and are still paying for electricity...unless of course you've spent tens of thousands of dollars to buy solar/wind turbines and batteries, in which case it would seem to be a monumental waste of money since apparently you are aware of several devices that are much cheaper that meet your electrical needs.

Anyway, point of all this is that you're the one looking like a mug here, you know of and believe in a device that can provide free energy to you, yet you don't use it...

What more can be said really?

Originally posted by Chadwickus
reply to post by hawkiye

 

Boncho has a good point you know.

Here you are saying how great perpetual motion machines are, yet you haven't built one and are still paying for electricity...unless of course you've spent tens of thousands of dollars to buy solar/wind turbines and batteries, in which case it would seem to be a monumental waste of money since apparently you are aware of several devices that are much cheaper that meet your electrical needs.

Anyway, point of all this is that you're the one looking like a mug here, you know of and believe in a device that can provide free energy to you, yet you don't use it...

What more can be said really?

Actually no he has not made any good point at all since i have made no such claims, I have said what I have built, and if you had read my op and subsequent posts you would realize how ridiculous your statements are. But since you guys are too lazy to actually read what I have said or the site I have referenced you continue to make foolish uninformed accusations from your ignorant biases.

I have gotten as far as to buy some magnets off of eBay.

I have spent a lot of time pondering this subject.

I am convinced that we need to get away from the traditional ball bearing. This is causing too much friction and robbing much needed energy.

The problem is that I am to lazy.

There needs to be some sort of magnetic levitation instead of a bearing to support a rotating assembly.

I probably just gave up the secret and made someone rich. Good luck.

reply to post by hawkiye


No agenda here my friend.

Just pointing out how silly it is to push something so hard yet not actually doing it yourself.

I didn't see anywhere in your OP where you stated what you built, you said you dabbled in the other thread though.

Why haven't you built a device that can power a house?

Did you not say this in that thread?

there are several devices out there that can be built and that do work etc. that could power you home or at least substantially reduce your power bills.

So have you built one or not?

If so, why not share it with us here at ATS, why the censorship and secrecy?

If not ,why not? Aren't you sick of paying power bills created by those evil cult people you keep mentioning?

reply to post by liejunkie01

I probably just gave up the secret and made someone rich. Good luck.

Too late...

Magnetic Bearing

reply to post by boncho

You do remember the amount of time I put into Rossi when he first came on scene, many and many hours, and what came of that exactly. Where's everything he promised? Where's everything you promised out of that whole fiasco? Just a few more months I bet...

Rather then continue to answer your regurgitated tripe over and over I will just prove how full of it you are by posting the quote above and challenge you to post a single quote of me promising anything about Rossi. All I have ever done is intimate we should remain objective till we have reason not to.

You can't because there isn't one and this illustrates how you just pull things out of your ass and try and associate them to others and then attack your own false construct to try and discredit anyone who blows your BS out the water routinely.

You put some arbitrary time limit on Rossi and if he does not perform within it you label him a fraud which is ridiculous. He may or may not come through for any number of reasons. 80% of all businesses fail within the first year many before they even open the doors would you label them all frauds? Rossi could very well be a fraud as I have said from day one but there is simply no evidence yet to support that and failing to meet a deadline or coming to market does not prove fraud or every business that has ever failed is a fraud then. But if course you never hesitate to jump to a conclusion evidence be damned. My position has always been to let things play out and lets see rather then just dismiss things out of hand as you do.

There is no point in me continuing to respond to your regurgitated tripe over and over I have already done it more then I should have I am done with you...

Originally posted by liejunkie01
I have gotten as far as to buy some magnets off of eBay.

I have spent a lot of time pondering this subject.

I am convinced that we need to get away from the traditional ball bearing. This is causing too much friction and robbing much needed energy.

The problem is that I am to lazy.

There needs to be some sort of magnetic levitation instead of a bearing to support a rotating assembly.

I probably just gave up the secret and made someone rich. Good luck.

edit on 23-10-2012 by liejunkie01 because: (no reason given)

There are several magnet generators on the site I referenced some of which have no moving parts. Take a look and maybe one of them will inspire you.

reply to post by Chadwickus


You stiil have not read what I have already wrote... Sigh!

reply to post by hawkiye


I like ideas that are backed with evidence, that are not sales pitches aimed to steal money from the witless. Example can be found as recent as tonight in a research study done on sustainable farming. I'm not necessarily against GMO or modern farming practice, which this has been cantered around, but I really enjoyed reading the paper and the ideas therein.

Link

In some other threads, myself and other posters discussed possible means of alternative energy. *. There are others too, and in my personal time my friends and I kick ideas around. But we do it while trying to stay within the confines of reality.

All I have ever done is intimate we should remain objective till we have reason not to.

There were plenty of reasons in the beginning. Improper calorimetric readings, lying about someone on his board that didn't exist or was dead, an engineering degree from a diploma mill (he was a philosopher in actuality-I concede, in science) and then his history of shady dealings, among other things.

As it progressed, he lied about seeking investor, customer funds, claimed to sell licenses only months after stating he didn't want money until contracts were satisfied, failed dates which he promised to deliver on.

Then more recently the shenanigans in Florida. Lies upon lies upon lies. His updating blogs (at least 20 of them) which are updated every few days to keep them on top of google search returns is suspect, as well as his online presence being that he should be busy bringing his device to market.

A new site has come about, one of the first to actually be critical of him and his antics.

I haven't gone through it because I feel I discovered enough on my own to disregard him awhile ago.

You can't because there isn't one and this illustrates how you just pull things out of your ass and try and associate them to others and then attack your own false construct to try and discredit anyone who blows your BS out the water routinely.

Not sure what BS of mine you have blown out of the water. Your OP was loosely based on a few different ideas and didn't really make sense. It was ambiguous, and any argument you were making was not clear. If you wish to have a discussion on the idea of perpetual things in physics, at the micro and macro level, I'm sure many would be willing to discuss it with you. As far as perpetual motion machines, we are left with the same argument over and over again.

"Perpetual motion machines exist!"

"Where are they?"

-silence-

-

The next argument will be anecdotal claims and a spam of links to multiple crackpots claiming to have discovered free energy. But as Chadwickus, myself and others have clearly stated, if you know these free energy systems exist... And they are so easy to build. Why do you not have one?

I would if I knew them to be real, or feasible. However, I would not make this claim lightly. Which it seems you and many others do. As you have no real proof to substantiate your claims.

You put some arbitrary time limit on Rossi and if he does not perform within it you label him a fraud which is ridiculous.

He put it on himself. Not me.

Blackberry recently put a limit on the release of the new generation of handhelds. They didn't meet the deadline, got hammered by shareholders and spurred lost confidence in their business model. They had to fix it by updating people with design progress and are currently slated to release in the new year. That's business.

Rossi hasn't done it just once, he's done it multiple times, on something that hasn't even been proven to work yet.

80% of all businesses fail within the first year many before they even open the doors would you label them all frauds?

I will assume you haven't finished your MBA program yet. No worries. Either you have a viable business model or you don't. Rossi claims to have a heater that costs nothing to run, and changed over to electricity via turbines, can essentially produce unlimited electricity. That's a damn profitable business model...

there is simply no evidence yet to support that and failing to meet a deadline or coming to market does not prove fraud

There is plenty of reasons beyond his failure to meet his own promises that paints him the way he is seen.

reply to post by boncho

The next argument will be anecdotal claims and a spam of links to multiple crackpots claiming to have discovered free energy

It's statements like this that make you the crack pot. This statement automatically states the anyone making a claim is a crackpot in your mind before you even examine their claims. But you say you are seeking evidence yeah right and you expect anyone with a brain to believe that after such statements as above.... Sigh!

reply to post by hawkiye

It's statements like this that make you the crack pot. This statement automatically states the anyone making a claim is a crackpot in your mind before you even examine their claims. But you say you are seeking evidence yeah right and you expect anyone with a brain to believe that after such statements as above.... Sigh!

A ball is round.

Mathematics or science

The shape of a closed curve with no sharp corners, such as an ellipse, circle, rounded rectangle, or sphere

en.wikipedia.org...

round/round/
Adjective:
Shaped like or approximately like a circle or cylinder: "she was seated at a round table".

See what I did there? It's pretty easy because we are familiar with balls being round. But I made a statement, and backed it up by supporting evidence, with linked sources so anyone can do the same. A ball is round. You can see for yourself the ball is round. And you can look up the definition, and look at the picture.

I never said anyone making a claim is a crackpot, I was referring to the long history of perpetual motion machine, free energy threads which are created, which simply link people to the websites of crackpots, and provide anecdotal accounts of something that works, with no real supporting evidence.

Why don't you take the time, with just one device which you fully believe to be real, in existence, operational, and formulate a thread. If it is something I haven't seen before I will look into it, as I'm sure many others will.

The problem with doing so though, is you won't find information to support it, because as we've discussed earlier, simple logic somewhat negates the possibility of the existence of such a device, or such an argument.

And I'm not even taking physics. -Lets not even address physics for a moment-

I'm talking about evidence that supports a working model you and others claim to exist. Evidence like someone powering a house, business, or damn near anything off one of these devices. The latest claim was Rossi who said he powered a factory for three years off an e-cat, yet, somehow hasn't been able to bring a working one to market. Why didn't he just use that one he was running for so long?



Food for thought.

Well, as ive stated noumerus times im no scientist..
What about "Heatpumps."

Toshiba has an incredible COP temperatures below freezing. It has an energy factor that far exceeds most air heat pumps on the market. This makes a noticeable difference on your energy bill. At +7 degrees gives Toshiba RAS-10-ND PAVP over five kilowatts of heat for every kilowatt-supplied electricity.

How can i get 5kW of heat from 1kW supplied??

You say "Cant get more Out than In"...

Isnt that what Heatpumps do...
Anyhow, i pay for 1kW and get 5...Thats a good bargin right?
No?

reply to post by Miccey


There is a picture description at the bottom of this page.

Not breaking the laws of thermodynamics. Not over unity, or a perpetual motion machine... But very efficient for the home nonetheless.

reply to post by boncho


Ok...I think i understand that picture...
BUT, it still 1kW in and 5 out...

Why do you guys keep pressing that its IMPOSSIBLE for
ANY other device to do the same..
I know i havnt seen any other that does..But WHY impossible?

Originally posted by Miccey
Why do you guys keep pressing that its IMPOSSIBLE for
ANY other device to do the same..
I know i havnt seen any other that does..But WHY impossible?

I'm going with the "where's the beef" argument, not "it's impossible" argument.

I had a heat pump once and that thing ran up a huge electric bill because it only warmed up the air so much, then heating elements kicked in to make up the difference. You could disable the heating elements but then it never really warmed up the house.

I think it was cheaper to just heat with natural gas.

If I use your math, a 5 KW solar panel array is zero KW in, and 5KW out, even better than 1KW in, right?

But engineers don't do math that way. The diagram you refer to shows 5KW in and 5KW out.

And the solar panel array is maybe 40KW in, and 5KW out of electricity, it's just that the 40KW comes from the sun. The other 35KW is probably mostly given off as heat.

Michio Kaku (who graduated first in his Harvard physics class, received his doctorate from Berkeley, and taught at Princeton) addresses perpetual motion machines in chapter 14 of his excellent book Physics of the Impossible. In his book, Kaku breaks down “impossible” into three classes (summarized below):

Class 1 impossibility – impossible today but do not violate known laws of physics
Class 2 impossibility – technologies that sit at the edge of our understanding. If possible, they may be realized thousands or millions of years in the future
Class 3 impossibility – technologies that violate the known laws of physics. If possible, these technologies would represent a shift in our understanding of physics
Kaku labels perpetual motion a Class 3 impossibility (teleportation and telepathy are Class 1, time machines are a Class 2). He states in the closing of chapter 14 on perpetual motion:

Because creating a true perpetual motion machine may require us to reevaluate the fundamental laws of physics on a cosmological scale, I would rank perpetual motion machines as a Class III impossibility; that is, either they are truly impossible, or we would need to fundamentally change our understanding of fundamental physics on a cosmological scale in order to make such a machine possible.

If you think you know more about physics than Michio Kaku good luck to you but you probably don't in actual reality.

Originally posted by liejunkie01
There needs to be some sort of magnetic levitation instead of a bearing to support a rotating assembly.

I probably just gave up the secret and made someone rich. Good luck.

I've been using magnetic bearings in the fans that cool the PCs I build for six years, since 2006:

www.extremeoverclocking.com...

They are probably more efficient than ball bearings while they last, but they don't tend to last as long as the ball bearing versions so some people don't like them, as it's a pain to open your PC just to replace some dead fans.
People don't seem to realize that permanent magnets aren't so permanent, especially when you make them do work, like suspending a rotating shaft with various forces applied to it.

Originally posted by JimTSpock
He states in the closing of chapter 14 on perpetual motion:

Because creating a true perpetual motion machine may require us to reevaluate the fundamental laws of physics on a cosmological scale, I would rank perpetual motion machines as a Class III impossibility; that is, either they are truly impossible, or we would need to fundamentally change our understanding of fundamental physics on a cosmological scale in order to make such a machine possible.

I can't say I agree with everything Kaku says, but that sounds logical enough to me.

Please edit your post to show what you quoted as I did in my reply, otherwise it's considered a form of plagiarism according to this site.

Are any of the perpetual motion proponents in this thread powering their house using over unity energy sources? If not, why not? Why are you paying for electricity when you could be getting it for free? Seems completely nonsensical that people who are oh so sure that these "over unity" devices are real (and so obviously real, you have the "science" to prove it after all, right?) are paying for something that could "easily" be 100% free.

It's like me claiming I know of a device that magically generates money yet conspicuously fail to own or use one myself.