Will You Change, if Jesus Is Found NOT To be Real?

Can we please just get along ?

John Lennon knew the power of Love



The spirit of Jesus is in all of us weither you like it or not

when you LOVE .. that mean you have Jesus in you
when you Hate .. that mean you have the opposite of Jesus in you

When you have unconditional Love in you .. you become FEARLESS
when you have hatred in you .. you become FEARFULL

reply to post by Ben81


Sorry, but I don't call my compassion and love 'Jesus'. Only a fool relies on a mythological being to define the positive forces inside them.

Besides, that wasn't the question. I am dumbfounded how the OP asked a question and everybody did the cha cha to avoid it because they can't even wrap their minds around the idea that THEY'VE BEEN LIED TO. I'm not saying it's a lie, I'm saying it's a possibility, and you would all rather stick your heads in the sand and pretend the revelation never happened, than start from scratch.

At the very least, if Jesus is found not to be real, then we still have those stories to make an example from. Just because he might not have been real doesn't mean there isn't a moral to the stories.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by Ben81

 

Sorry, but I don't call my compassion and love 'Jesus'. Only a fool relies on a mythological being to define the positive forces inside them.

Besides, that wasn't the question. I am dumbfounded how the OP asked a question and everybody did the cha cha to avoid it because they can't even wrap their minds around the idea that THEY'VE BEEN LIED TO. I'm not saying it's a lie, I'm saying it's a possibility, and you would all rather stick your heads in the sand and pretend the revelation never happened, than start from scratch.

At the very least, if Jesus is found not to be real, then we still have those stories to make an example from. Just because he might not have been real doesn't mean there isn't a moral to the stories.

For me... I KNOW I have already been lied to and continue to be lied to on a daily basis from the culture makers of today. Back in the day there was not as much power the elite held therefore I can go back to the era and find some mysteries to uncover, reflect upon and make MY own conclusion to date.

I can find the Story of Jesus in the heavens. I can read the Bible and get an idea of the stars position at the time. Everything happens in the heavens as well..... this is something we are not aware of as a whole. We are in a lost age whereby all we have available to find the truth is via the net and books. We could study the heavens, the human body and SEE the stories in real time though.

The Human Species IS INDEED becoming more aware in this "information" age/Iron Age.

I hope in the near future we get away from religion.

Here are a few videos Im offering that may or may not fit your need right now. For ME, science, philosophy, metaphysics, cosmology, astrology is very important when understanding our self and or God. For me.

I don't call my compassion and love 'Jesus'. Only a fool relies on a mythological being

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Why be mean though... calling another idea a fool and yours not ??

Why?

Please.... why can't we all share ideas and thoughts and not shun another down because their idea is not ours?

You know I love ya....

The three videos I posted is right up your alley, I believe. I know I LOVE THEM! The different ideas in the videos are given by men who are very well studied in theology and astrology. Astrotheology is pretty cool in my eyes and hope you will watch them so I can hear your thoughts as well.

reply to post by MamaJ

Why be mean though... calling another idea a fool and yours not ??

Why?

Please.... why can't we all share ideas and thoughts and not shun another down because their idea is not ours?

Because you're looking at how you feel about it, and not why I said it...allow me to explain.

When people base their beliefs and philosophies on someone from history, it's not just because of who that person is - it's also because those ideas ring as true. The historical figure takes on the veracity of the philosophy. Unfortunately, that's changed...suddenly, the philosophy takes on the veracity of the person, which is foolish because should that person be found to have not been accurately portrayed, that means the philosophy suffers with that revelation, despite being tried and proven.

That's why I say that anchoring a set of beliefs with a historical figure is foolish, because such beliefs shouldn't need an anchor unless they are meaningless by themselves. And more and more often these days, I'm getting the impression that if Jesus had never existed, or is proven to have never existed in such recorded capacity, those values we hold dear today won't mean nearly as much.

And if that does hold true, what does that say about us and the virtues we uphold?

You know I love ya....

It's mutual. We have our disagreements, but I have a deep admiration for your particular "window" in live, and how it interacts with other views - not to mention just you as a person.

The three videos I posted is right up your alley, I believe. I know I LOVE THEM! The different ideas in the videos are given by men who are very well studied in theology and astrology. Astrotheology is pretty cool in my eyes and hope you will watch them so I can hear your thoughts as well.

I'll have to check them out. Might as well do it now, actually.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

reply to post by NoRegretsEver


Considering that the tombs of his apostles who were written of in the new testament have been found with his name and crosses etched into them, i highly doubt it will be found he is not real. Archeaologists are working hard day and night looking for everything they can find in the ruins of ancient cities he preached in for evidence of him. The discovery of the tombs of his own apostles who walked with him are the hugest find. In tandem with writings from Tacitus, Pliny the Younger, Marabar Sarapion, Josephus and some 70 other nonbiblical references to him, inculding the jewish talmud scriptures. He will not be found to not be real. It will be archeaology that proves him.

Originally posted by NoRegretsEver
IF JESUS WAS FOUND TO BE A FALSE STORY , HOW WOULD YOU FEEL ABOUT RELIGION?

It would totally change my prayer habits. It would totally erode my view that there is a 'loving God'. No 'loving God' could make people and then not teach them truth. But it wouldn't change my basic beliefs about right/wrong and it wouldn't change my beliefs that there is an afterlife.

BTW .. my personal experiences prove to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that the spiritworld is very real; that there is life after death; and that those good people who have passed on before us are VERY active here on earth. I also had a couple of experiences where the divine has actually touched my soul (and no, not during some whoopitup Christian revival, they happened at unexpected quiet times) .. so I know that Jesus is real.

reply to post by FlyersFan

I also had a couple of experiences where the divine has actually touched my soul (and no, not during some whoopitup Christian revival, they happened at unexpected quiet times) .. so I know that Jesus is real.

I can totally relate to that statement, because I have experienced that in very quiet moments as well. It brought me to tears to experience such a gentle, tender, pure love.

Unfortunately I have a very hard time emulating that love in real life , as I'm sure many Christians do...and our souls are constantly at war with the powers of darkness, which love to play with our egos.

We dont need Jesus to change us we need only free will.

reply to post by NoRegretsEver


For myself, I don't consider this a "what if?" In 1999 I considered myself a conservative Christian, however, I was concerned that much of Christ's message had been corrupted over the centuries. I saw the multitude of Christian denominations that we see today as the clearest evidence of this corruption, so I began a "spiritual" quest to find the purist form of Christianity. I initially began by reading the entire Bible from cover to cover and referring to modern Christian apologists to help to explain the difficulties that I encountered, however, I quickly found that their logic and arguments were rather weak and unconvincing, and in some cases, even laughable. I therefore shifted my attention to ancient works that were much closer to the time of Christ. As I progressed in my study, I found numerous indications that something was not right in the way I was attempting to understand the Bible. I found a number of apparent "parallels" that appeared to send discernible messages which could only be explained if the Bible was actually allegorical in nature. This was quite a shock, but once I began to accept this possibility, I began to find evidence as to the allegoric nature of the Bible nearly everywhere I looked. I was even able to decipher enough of this allegory to realize that God and Christ are nothing but metaphors representing knowledge hidden by allegory and religion is nothing but a Sophist creation designed as a cover for their conspiracy.

I also found that Christianity began as an interpretative sect closer to Gnosticism which went too far in their interpretations and ended up "crucifying" "Christ". As a result, there was an attempt by others to erase all vestiges of their existence, however, the Gnostic Christians were also infiltrated from within by interpreters influenced by the Jewish philosopher Philo and transformed into a less threatening sect and therefore allowed a form of "resurrection". (Thus, I was dumbfounded to realize that I had completed my quest and accepted Christianity in its purist form.)

I have naturally considered sharing this knowledge with others, however, I feel inadequate to the task. This is the greatest secret in the world and if I were able to convince others that I am correct, it would change the history of the world as we know it. I also know that there are defenders of this secret that will make every effort to prevent my ideas from taking root and thus my efforts would be a waste of time.

Part of my conviction that my findings are correct lies in the fact that my approach brings together multiple mysteries and conspiracies like pieces to a massive puzzle. Alchemy, Kabbalah, Aristotle, Free Masonry, etc. are not mysterious to me; they are all part of the same puzzle. I do not see the "Blond, Brunette, or Redhead." In a sense, I am an Anti-Neo, looking for my Anti-Morpheus.

Then ill stay praying to you

Originally posted by AthlonSavage
We dont need Jesus to change us we need only free will.

Here are some men and women who also used to believe the same thing:

Marilyn Monroe (Actress):

She was visited by Billy Graham during a presentation of a show. He said the Spirit of God had sent him to preach to her. After hearing what the Preacher had to say, she said: "I don't need your Jesus". A week later, she was found dead in her apartment .
LINK

John Lennon (Singer):

Some years before, during an interview with an American Magazine, he said:

"Christianity will end, it will disappear. I do not have to argue about that. I am certain. Jesus was ok, but his subjects were too simple. Today we are more famous than Him" (1966).

Lennon, after saying that the Beatles were more famous than Jesus Christ, was shot six times.
LINK

Tancredo Neves (President of Brazil ):
During the Presidential campaign, he said if he got 500,000 votes from his party, not even God would remove him from Presidency.

Sure he got the votes, but he got sick a day before being made President, then he died.
LINK

Cazuza (Bi-sexual Brazilian composer, singer and poet):

During A show in Canecio (Rio de Janeiro), while smoking his cigarette, he puffed out some smoke into the air and said: "God, that's for you." He died at the age of 32 of AIDS in a horrible manner.
LINK

In Campinas, Brazil a group of friends, drunk, went to pick up a friend. The mother accompanied her to the car and was so worried about the drunkenness of her friends and she said to the daughter holding her hand, who was already seated in the car: "My Daughter, Go With God And May He Protect You." She responded: "Only If He (God) Travels In The Trunk, Cause Inside Here....It's Already Full "

Hours later, news came by that they had been involved in a fatal accident, everyone had died, the car could not be recognized what type of car it had been, but surprisingly, the trunk was intact.

The police said there was no way the trunk could have remained intact. To their surprise, inside the trunk was a crate of eggs, none was broken. LINK

Christine Hewitt (Jamaican Journalist and entertainer) said the Bible (Word of God) was the worst book ever written. In June 2006 she was found burnt beyond recognition in her motor vehicle.

"Whoso despiseth the word shall be destroyed" ~ Proverbs 13:13

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" ~ John 1:1

LINK

reply to post by Murgatroid


So basically, you're saying that there's a long and brutal history of "Believe or die!!!!"

Nicely summarized. This is the reason I'm not a Christian.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
So basically, you're saying that there's a long and brutal history of "Believe or die!!!!"

Nicely summarized. This is the reason I'm not a Christian.

INCORRECT X 2...

Basically I'm saying that ALL of us are being warned but we are refusing to LISTEN to the warnings.

We are judging OURSELVES by refusing God's help.

People are listening to and believing the lies of the god of this world instead of listening to the TRUTH.

This is the REAL reason you not a Christian.

All the answers to the entire meaning of life and the universe ARE sitting there...

But thanks to the massive lies of religion, education, science, and media, VERY few believe them.

"You are not of this world. You are going to die in about 50 years, for real, maybe sooner at best. Life is a vapor. You are going to die, sooner then you think. You are going to face the uncreated One, in your barrenness, in your raw self, you are going to face the uncreated One.

But what you do in this age with your heart response in love is the only thing, the only thing, the only thing that matters. In the truest sense of the word. Why are you here? To choose love.
Set your heart on a pilgrimage to be great in eternity. You are going to be there in just a moment, you are going to be there in just a moment. And what you have done in love and service is what is going to stand in that day."

Eternity Speaking /////// Eternity - YouTube ////// MP3

This is how to be ready for eternity:

“Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.” Jesus

What REALLY happens when a person is born again?

How One Is Saved

reply to post by Murgatroid

We are judging OURSELVES by refusing God's help.

I believe the actual punishment is supposed to be enacted by "God", who also issued the rules, and is proclaimed to be the ultimate judge of this world, so it stands to reason that he's the judge, jury, and executioner. This is all according to scripture. Any Christian will tell you the same.

As to the rest of your post... no wonder everyone's atheist. I can't think of a single person who adheres to idiocy as a philosophy. Actually, that's a lie. I see them every Sunday walking in the opposite direction as me. Maybe if there was a better story concocted for your "God" and the leaders of modern Christianity weren't so obsessed with material perfection, you'd be getting somewhere by now. But you can only lead a horse to water...so that leaves us at an impasse. I'm done here - with you, at least.

Anyway, I'm out to dinner. Have a nice day.

reply to post by NoRegretsEver

IF JESUS WAS FOUND TO BE A FALSE STORY , HOW WOULD YOU FEEL ABOUT RELIGION?

The story of Jesus is but the newest iteration in a long line of iterations representing this existence its overcoming and shortcomings. It in itself has very little to do with religion other then the fact that people tend to group themselves into such categories.

Believe is a categorical function of the denotational mind which tries to categorize abstracts purely for the purpose of categorization, compacting and compressing the data it receives daily from external input into metal boxes it can more easily grasp which are then turned into practices that it can more easily cope with. It is merely a function of the binary process of this universe and existence. And as such you question is illogical.

reply to post by galadofwarthethird


It's not illogical. Let's state it more simply: if the parameters for certain practices were revealed to be invalid, would those practices still be worth the values they represent?

reply to post by AfterInfinity

Well assuming they had any intrinsic value in the first place, and it was not all just in peoples minds. Well then NO it would not matter if the parameters changes as its all just in peoples heads, the are not doing it because it has any value to you, there doing it because for them it has some perceived value to them, while for others it may even have some received value. But most I think just follow the herd as its in there nature. So then it just becomes a matter of convenience, that convenience we call religion. The question then would become why would it be convenient for them to change there minds and perspective on such a thing?

The answer is that it would not be convenient. As it does not matter unless it matters to you. So why does it matter to you?

reply to post by galadofwarthethird

Well assuming they had any intrinsic value in the first place, and it was not all just in peoples minds.

Actions, such as speaking, kneeling, and consciously directing emotion, are our way of giving thoughts substance. In giving thoughts substance, we amplify the energy that imbues them, thereby empowering the ideas we hold and giving them the ability to shape our personal world. Get an entire community to join in, and it's a giant community bubble of serenity.

The opposite holds true as well, of course. If actions are imbued with the power of fear, then an apprehensive atmosphere will take hold and amplify every demon that passes through the hearts of those within the bubble. This is exemplified in "The Crucible".

And as Dumbledore once said, quite wisely:

"Of course it's happening in your head, Harry. But why should that mean it's not real?"

And finally, but certainly not least, there's solipsism. I recommend you take a peek at it, because the best answers are the ones you find on your own - assuming you're willing to accept truths you may not like.

Well then NO it would not matter if the parameters changes as its all just in peoples heads, the are not doing it because it has any value to you, there doing it because for them it has some perceived value to them,

You cannot help others without helping yourself. And in helping yourself, you give yourself more time to help others. It's all about balance. Unfortunately, you are correct to a degree - our society is exorbitantly focused on serving itself, due to the fearful atmosphere our leaders have decided is more beneficial in existing than being abolished.

But most I think just follow the herd as its in there nature. So then it just becomes a matter of convenience, that convenience we call religion.

This only shows that religion does have that potential. But just as medicine can be administered in many different ways, so religion can be studied in many different ways. Because we are prone to "group survival", we are also prone to "group think", which means we will come to one conclusion that satisfies the masses, and anyone who disagrees will either swiftly change their opinion or be ejected from the group for the sake of the rest.
It's a survival technique - if the entire group isn't of like mind, that increases the likelihood of strife and weakness, something that can generate a crucial oversight and put the population at risk.

The question then would become why would it be convenient for them to change there minds and perspective on such a thing?

Abolish fear of change. There's your simple, and yet not so simple, answer.

The answer is that it would not be convenient. As it does not matter unless it matters to you. So why does it matter to you?

In accordance to the statement above, I believe that unless fear of change is repealed, we will forever fight amongst ourselves until change is forced or we lose momentum entirely and collapse into the stone ages once more. As a lightworker, I care for the progress of this world and its inhabitants. I would rather not see such potential get sucked into the swirling void of chaos and reduced to square one all over again. We've come too far to lose now. However, there may not be a choice in the matter. I can only hope.