I have seen many pictures of this wierd Russian built fighter...the SU47. Featuring forward swept wings, this thing looks like it is a badass. What are its capabilities, and have the Russians began production?

Originally posted by Raptorkiller3334
I have seen many pictures of this wierd Russian built fighter...the SU47

What are its capabilities

have the Russians began production?

agree, Su-47 BERKUT definetely is weird looking


1. ultra-maneuverability, a must for a dogfight
2. more than 90% composite materials, which make berkut VERY strong

"Su-47 was originally built as Russia's principle testbed for composite materials and sophisticated fly-by-wire control systems"

technology demonstrators usually don't go into serial production, but berkut was such great of a demonstrator that "Sukhoi is now attempting to market the Su-47 to the Russian military and foreign customers as a production fighter in its own right. "

Hmm interesting. So I am assuming that it is expensive and that it probably won't be produced in quantities that would threaten US airpower.
I wonder how it would perform against the F-16 or F-15, I hear that the Fighting Falcon is extremely maneuverable and deadly with amraams or aim 9s.

Originally posted by Raptorkiller3334
I wonder how it would perform against the F-16 or F-15, I hear that the Fighting Falcon is extremely maneuverable and deadly with amraams or aim 9s.

it would wack both in dogfight, as for maneuverability of berkut - try moving paper through air backwards... get it?
but otherwise it depends on the training of pilot and avionics in the aircraft.

It has been my humble impression, from both personal experience (research, more or less) and from the posts, that dogfights are not really an important part of aviation combat. Mainly because it's hard to get into one before either getting a kill or becoming one. Current tech has made dogfight capability great for bragging rights (India vs Us 9 to 1, lol) but other than that (Us vs India, wins vs nuclear wasteland, in a real combat scenario). Although it does look cool. also in the field of aviation obsolescence railguns with advanced enough targeting will be able to shoot down any aircraft that can be detected at ridiculous range (pre-threat).

Yes, I agree that modern jet fighters would never end up dogfighting, and if so it would be in very limited terms. Most US fighters, the Tomcat for example, have an extreme advantage in their missiles, like the Phoenix missile. Its got longer range then most MiGs!
So even if the Russians build a better dogfighter, I think the US will still have the advantage because of long range missile technology.

Originally posted by Raptorkiller3334
like the Phoenix missile. Its got longer range then most MiGs!

dont worry, russia has missiles in its arsenal that have even longer range

My bet is that it is an interesting experimental plane and that's all it'll ever be.

As for FSW? Well conventionally swept back wing designs can easily be made more manoeuvrable than the human body can withstand. So what? It has it's own area of favourable circumstances at certain speeds but then so does the more usual conventional sweep at other speeds.

If FSW was all that the US and everyone else would have incorporated it into their designs as it was a bit of a fad in the early - mid 1980's. Grumman even designed built and flew the X29.

It took composite materials to make the thing reliably workable but the idea has been around since WW2.

Junkers even had several designs based on it at the end of the war using engines (singley or in clusters) as weights to counteract the twisting forces unique to the design. Try googling the Junkers Ju287 (the one they actually built and flew...which subsequently was captured by the Russians), the Junkers EF122, EF125 or BMW's 'High Speed Bomber Project 2'.

Russia is supposed to be developing the new (conventionally swept) Pak FA plane. The indians and Chinese are said to be coming in on this one. If so there'll be no money from them being diverted into the Su-37/47 cos they aren't countries endowed with large amounts of surplus cash.







[edit on 19-10-2004 by sminkeypinkey]

The S-47 is a testbed, nothing more.

And while we are talking about it, it wouldn't hold up to fighting western fighters because it was designed around dogfighting not BVR combat.

That is akin to coming to a gun fight with a knife.

Man I love the looks on the SU47 its just beats out the Black Widow for best looking non production plane in my book.

The SU-47 seems to me to be a major step for Russia trying out western type stealth in a fighter. The first Russian mig design with a internal weapon bay if I am correct, great for a stealth plane.

A rotary internal weapon bay at that very interesting design.

Sukhoi is now attempting to market the Su-47 to the Russian military and foreign customers as a production fighter in its own right

Sure they are and rightly so...as such, till the price tag drops (ie: which I understand to be in excess of 70 million a plane) or the Russian economy gets to the point where such funding is feasible, the Su-47, like other type Russian projects (ie: MiG 1.42-44, etc.), will continue to be prototypes and test bed (technology demonstrators for 4.5 to 5th Gen fighters, such as the LCA, LFS, etc.) aircraft(s).



seekerof

"The Su-47 is the first Russian MiG design with an internal weapon bay......" are you sure about that?

Originally posted by waynos
" an internal weapon bay."

- What's the big deal about this.

Yeah yeah, obviously it helps with a planes' stealth characteristics but it's hardly anything revolutionary (lol) or new.

F101 Voodoo's, F102 Delta Dagger, F106 Delta Dart and the UK's Buccaneer all had them.....30 - 40yrs ago and more!

Big deal.

[edit on 20-10-2004 by sminkeypinkey]

Originally posted by waynos
"The Su-47 is the first Russian MiG design with an internal weapon bay......" are you sure about that?

Actually Im not sure, please correct my if im wrong. Im not a expert in mig design.

I never new older migs carried Air to Air missiles in a internal bay

I wasn't on about the design, only that its a Sukhoi not a MiG

Originally posted by waynos
I wasn't on about the design, only that its a Sukhoi not a MiG

My bad I should have said Russian fighter, wasnt there plans awhile ago to merge VPK Mapo and AVPK Sukhoi?

The su-47 can "dodge" incoming missles.

Originally posted by ShadowXIX

Originally posted by waynos
I wasn't on about the design, only that its a Sukhoi not a MiG

My bad I should have said Russian fighter, wasnt there plans awhile ago to merge VPK Mapo and AVPK Sukhoi?

I don't know but the name 'Sukhoi-MiG' does have ring to it.

Originally posted by DrHoracid
The su-47 can "dodge" incoming missles.

HAHA maybe in your dreams. No manned aircraft is able to dodge todays advanced misilles.

does it have a defensive laser like the JSF ??? to get rid of missiles