Christians, do babies that live a short life go to heaven?

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posted on Oct, 17 2012 @ 03:39 PM
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reply to post by chelle21689
 


So do babies not get another chance at life?




posted on Oct, 17 2012 @ 04:15 PM
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reply to post by chelle21689
 


If you are refering to being reincarnated, from a Christian perspective, Christian's do not beleive in reincarnation. So no. Although, I don't know off the top of my head if it's addressed directly in scripture. I beleive Psalms states, "it is appointed once for one to be born, live, and die" or something to that effect, (paraphrased).



posted on Oct, 17 2012 @ 04:54 PM
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reply to post by SrWingCommander
 

Ohh, okay. What do Christians think about those who "remember" past lives? A lot of people on here seem to think it's proof and that there are documents.

Just curious. Seems like every religion has their "proof" so it's hard to believe which.

Thank you for answering.



posted on Oct, 17 2012 @ 06:18 PM
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Originally posted by chelle21689
reply to post by chelle21689
 


So do babies not get another chance at life?


Their spirits go back to God, for all intents and purposes they are not dead. Their bodies are dead but not their spirits. They will recieve new and indestructible bodies at resurrection day, bodies that cannot die, like the angels have and they will not be babies but fully grown.



posted on Oct, 17 2012 @ 07:00 PM
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Originally posted by chelle21689
If they're in heaven, do they stay in the mind-state of babies? What was the purpose of having such a short life? I think it's sad to think that if they didn't have the chance to experience life. =(




If I were to guess they would never leave heaven if given the choice. And babies or children who die before they reach an age of reckoning go to heaven. As well as mentally challenged adults who cannot understand sin and unrighteousness.



posted on Oct, 17 2012 @ 07:09 PM
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reply to post by chelle21689
 


It isn't polite to speak or write of the dead in a public forum like this. That's all I have to say.



posted on Oct, 17 2012 @ 08:25 PM
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Originally posted by IkNOwSTuff

Originally posted by icepack
reply to post by IkNOwSTuff
 

yes, they do. the catholic church changed the dogma a couple of years ago. now, the souls of unbaptised babies go to heaven.



So just like that they changed their minds


Limbo (not Purgatory) came out of the writings of St. Augustine against the heresies of Pelagius (essentially, the argument about whether a legitimate baptism was necessary to remove original sin, which needed to be gone for salvation,) and was never really official church doctrine.


So is this ruling retroactive?
did all the babies who died unbaptised before the change now get to leave hell or purgatory and get to heaven?


It's a little silly to believe that man's theology somehow dictates terms to God, isn't it? If Limbo doesn't exist, it never existed, and all that speculation about it was just that -- speculation.



posted on Oct, 17 2012 @ 11:41 PM
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My reply is going to be from what I understand the bible to say about this subject. The bible does not support that anyone goes to heaven as an immortal soul directly upon their physical death. The bible tells us that death is like sleep, the “dead know nothing", or it refers to "entering into their rest."

Numerous scriptures foretell three resurrections that will take care of all situations. There are direct quotes from Jesus concerning multiple resurrections. The bible tells us the first resurrection is when those “dead in Christ” (the "elect" who have died) are resurrected and changed into immortal spirit beings at the return of Christ, in the future. At this time the living “elect” are also changed and given eternal life. This first resurrection is plainly discussed throughout the bible. If the "saved" went directly to heaven after death, why would they need to be resurrected from the dead when Christ returns?

In Revelation after 1000 years of Christ’s reign occur, we see another resurrection occurring of the “rest of the dead.” It appears those who died not hearing or understanding the truth during their lifetime will be resurrected during this time, getting their fair chance to comprehend and accept or reject the truth. Babies who died may be in this resurrection to physical life to have their opportunity to understand and accept salvation and then be changed to immortal spirit beings.

The third resurrection is described as the judgment to condemnation where those who knowingly reject the truth and salvation, their souls being totally evil and corrupt with no hope of repentence will finally be permanently destroyed by fire.

I don’t understand why so many Christian churches keep their members in the dark about these scriptures and allow the heaven/hell right after death myth to continue to make people feel confused or depressed about the death of babies or other people who die and were not committed to any religious beliefs. Some churches have their members believing only their members are going to heaven when they die and the rest of the world is going to hell even if they have not heard of Jesus. They are not teaching what the bible actually says.

I don’t belong to the church that I am providing a link to, but their article on the subject is a good explanation with scripture references to what I have found to be in the bible concerning the resurrections.

www.eternalgod.org...



posted on Oct, 18 2012 @ 03:14 AM
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Originally posted by chelle21689
reply to post by SrWingCommander
 

Ohh, okay. What do Christians think about those who "remember" past lives? A lot of people on here seem to think it's proof and that there are documents.

Just curious. Seems like every religion has their "proof" so it's hard to believe which.

Thank you for answering.


Possession
A spirit of evil uses the person as a channel of past lives



posted on Oct, 18 2012 @ 03:22 AM
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Originally posted by IkNOwSTuff
Nope no heaven for unbaptised babies.

I cant remember if its purgatory or hell they go to.

Another reason I cant understand why anyone with a brain chooses to subscribe to the complete and utter nonsense that is organised religion


This is the most stupid nasty and horrible answer I have ever seen given on ATS ever. Empty of compassion and full of hate anger and vitriol. I pity this poster seriously I do.

As for Babys in heaven.
In Hebrew religion children are not fully responsible to 13 yo. What does that mean, I am not sure.
As for children and Jesus

Well Jesus stated this
>

New International Version (©1984)
Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these."

Thats interesting, the Kingdom belongs to them. The children wont be hindered from Christ. Nothing can stand in their way to Jesus. Nothing it seems.
They dont belong to heaven, Gods Kingdom. In fact Gods Kingdom belongs not to God as explained here, but to the children. Interesting.


And NO they cant be in relationship with God if they are just babies, they will be eternal and alive as people. Not baby's, not helpless.

Please dont listen to some poor bitter twisted soul who thrives on negativity.
Jesus is not hate or anger, He is love and peace, and clearly for restoring children to their place in the Kingdom of God.


edit on 18-10-2012 by borntowatch because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 18 2012 @ 03:25 AM
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Originally posted by chelle21689
If they're in heaven, do they stay in the mind-state of babies? What was the purpose of having such a short life? I think it's sad to think that if they didn't have the chance to experience life. =(




the purpose is a lesson for others...




posted on Oct, 18 2012 @ 05:28 AM
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Originally posted by Murgatroid

Four year old met his mother’s miscarried child in Heaven

"Colton, still 4 years old, told his mother “you had a baby die in your tummy didn’t you”, which completely shocked them both because they had never told him about their miscarriage. They asked him how he knew and he said that he met his sister in Heaven and she told him what happened."

"Well he’s 7 years old now and it took a couple of years for his parents to really understand what happened, but when Colton Burpo was four years he was having surgery in the hospital for a burst appendix. While he was in surgery he apparently had some sort of out of body experience and could see what his parents were doing. He witnessed that his dad was praying and his mom on her cellphone. Both parents say they have no clue how he knew that, but that it’s absolutely true. And the story just gets more interesting from there.

Apparently during the same surgery Colton went to Heaven where he recounts how he met his grandfather who he had never known, who he later recognized in photos. The interesting thing is that he didn’t recognize photos of his grandfather as an old man with glasses, which is how everyone knew him, but rather as a young man. Colton’s father literally had go find a photo of ‘Pop’ as a young man before Colton was able to recognize him. Now that’s pretty wild.

Link

Wait wait... what would it look like to him then? I mean supposedly people in heaven look like who they were in this physical world, right? So when Colton went up to heaven and met his miscarried brother was it just a pool of blood he was talking to?



posted on Oct, 18 2012 @ 08:27 AM
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Originally posted by Xaphan
Wait wait... what would it look like to him then? I mean supposedly people in heaven look like who they were in this physical world, right? So when Colton went up to heaven and met his miscarried brother was it just a pool of blood he was talking to?


Yeah, that's exactly what she would look like.


Even a limited understanding of biology and genetics would have told you that all the parts that will essentially determine what someone is going to "look like" are present at conception.



posted on Oct, 18 2012 @ 09:55 AM
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Originally posted by TZela
My reply is going to be from what I understand the bible to say about this subject. The bible does not support that anyone goes to heaven as an immortal soul directly upon their physical death. The bible tells us that death is like sleep, the “dead know nothing", or it refers to "entering into their rest."

Numerous scriptures foretell three resurrections that will take care of all situations. There are direct quotes from Jesus concerning multiple resurrections. The bible tells us the first resurrection is when those “dead in Christ” (the "elect" who have died) are resurrected and changed into immortal spirit beings at the return of Christ, in the future. At this time the living “elect” are also changed and given eternal life. This first resurrection is plainly discussed throughout the bible. If the "saved" went directly to heaven after death, why would they need to be resurrected from the dead when Christ returns?

In Revelation after 1000 years of Christ’s reign occur, we see another resurrection occurring of the “rest of the dead.” It appears those who died not hearing or understanding the truth during their lifetime will be resurrected during this time, getting their fair chance to comprehend and accept or reject the truth. Babies who died may be in this resurrection to physical life to have their opportunity to understand and accept salvation and then be changed to immortal spirit beings.

The third resurrection is described as the judgment to condemnation where those who knowingly reject the truth and salvation, their souls being totally evil and corrupt with no hope of repentence will finally be permanently destroyed by fire.

I don’t understand why so many Christian churches keep their members in the dark about these scriptures and allow the heaven/hell right after death myth to continue to make people feel confused or depressed about the death of babies or other people who die and were not committed to any religious beliefs. Some churches have their members believing only their members are going to heaven when they die and the rest of the world is going to hell even if they have not heard of Jesus. They are not teaching what the bible actually says.

I don’t belong to the church that I am providing a link to, but their article on the subject is a good explanation with scripture references to what I have found to be in the bible concerning the resurrections.

www.eternalgod.org...


Any other Christians care to reply to what this person said?



posted on Oct, 18 2012 @ 10:11 AM
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Originally posted by chelle21689
Any other Christians care to reply to what this person said?


What is your perspective on what this person had to say?

There are a number of things in scripture that contradict their conclusions (the thief on the cross, if nothing else,) so there are many ways to consider what "fallen asleep" means. There is a small movement called "Dispensationalists", of which that person appears to be a supporter of, which is further broken down into Premillenialists, Amillennialists and Postmillenialists, different views on Christian eschatology (and which has no real bearing on whether the dead are currently in heaven or unawares.)



posted on Oct, 18 2012 @ 01:59 PM
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reply to post by TZela
 





I don’t understand why so many Christian churches keep their members in the dark about these scriptures and allow the heaven/hell right after death myth to continue to make people feel confused or depressed about the death of babies or other people who die and were not committed to any religious beliefs. Some churches have their members believing only their members are going to heaven when they die and the rest of the world is going to hell even if they have not heard of Jesus. They are not teaching what the bible actually says.


The thief on the cross next to Jesus who repented and asked him to remember him when he comes into his kingdom, Jesus replied "this day you shall be with me in paradise". Jesus didn't tell him at the end of the age or on judgement day, he said "this day".

And yes there are plenty of fringe sects who believe only their church will go to heaven or is the true church and theyre all wrong because the true church is a spiritual brotherhood forged in the blood of our God and Savior King.




In Revelation after 1000 years of Christ’s reign occur, we see another resurrection occurring of the “rest of the dead.” It appears those who died not hearing or understanding the truth during their lifetime will be resurrected during this time, getting their fair chance to comprehend and accept or reject the truth. Babies who died may be in this resurrection to physical life to have their opportunity to understand and accept salvation and then be changed to immortal spirit beings.


The final resurrection is for the wicked, and it is the final judgement. The only nations who get raised up to populate the earth during the millenial reign are the people who did not harm the Elect but rather helped them, who are the believers of Jesus and this is illustrated in Matthew 25:31-36 in which those who did for the believers of Christ did also for him, this is what it means to be the "Body of Christ", what they do for us they do for him and what they do not do for us they also do not do for him and it is the ones who did nothing for Christ's brothers and sisters are those who go into the fire. Who Christ's brothers and sisters are is illustrated in Mark 3:31-35 and those who do the will of the Father are John 6:37-40



posted on Oct, 18 2012 @ 02:02 PM
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Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by chelle21689
Any other Christians care to reply to what this person said?


What is your perspective on what this person had to say?

There are a number of things in scripture that contradict their conclusions (the thief on the cross, if nothing else,) so there are many ways to consider what "fallen asleep" means. There is a small movement called "Dispensationalists", of which that person appears to be a supporter of, which is further broken down into Premillenialists, Amillennialists and Postmillenialists, different views on Christian eschatology (and which has no real bearing on whether the dead are currently in heaven or unawares.)


I'm not Christian so I don't agree with it.



posted on Oct, 18 2012 @ 08:03 PM
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Originally posted by TZela
I don’t understand why so many Christian churches keep their members in the dark

Keeping us in the dark is the true agenda behind all false religion and virtually every denomination and organization in Christendom has been infiltrated which is why they bare NO resemblance at all to the early Church.


"Every major religion in the world has been manufactured or infiltrated by the Illuminati..."


OPUS DEI-- War on Protestantism

"...the goal is to infiltrate it with their compromising philosophies and attempt to destroy the Church from within."

Satan has infiltrated organized religion

The Real Conspiracy the Jesuit infiltration of Christianity



posted on Oct, 18 2012 @ 08:51 PM
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Originally posted by Murgatroid

Originally posted by TZela
I don’t understand why so many Christian churches keep their members in the dark

Keeping us in the dark is the true agenda behind all false religion and virtually every denomination and organization in Christendom has been infiltrated which is why they bare NO resemblance at all to the early Church.


"Every major religion in the world has been manufactured or infiltrated by the Illuminati..."


OPUS DEI-- War on Protestantism

"...the goal is to infiltrate it with their compromising philosophies and attempt to destroy the Church from within."

Satan has infiltrated organized religion

The Real Conspiracy the Jesuit infiltration of Christianity


The Church is a spiritual brotherhood, not any physical organization, institution or assembly. Jesuits be damned, they can't take you out of Christ's hands and neither can the world. However they will try to take Him out of our hands because we're weaker.



posted on Oct, 30 2012 @ 08:41 AM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 





The thief on the cross next to Jesus who repented and asked him to remember him when he comes into his kingdom, Jesus replied "this day you shall be with me in paradise". Jesus didn't tell him at the end of the age or on judgement day, he said "this day".


Jesus was dead for three days then resurrected. So when he said "today" he would be dead in the grave awaiting resurrection as well. Jesus was taken up to heaven after resurrection and revealing himself to his disciples. Since Jesus did not announce any changes to the death & resurrection plan I think it's logical to conclude that "paradise" was either a) a translation meaning that the death-sleep phase was "paradise" compared to being in pain nailed to a cross. I am assuming there would be no awareness of the passage of time when dead, or b) the word "paradise" is a total error of translation, as there are other known errors even in KJV, or c) the thief is an exception of the death/resurrection plan as described throughout the bible.

I agree with you in thinking the bible describes the final resurrection as the judgment of the wicked, however, the first resurrection describes the resurrection of the "dead in Christ" which precedes even the changing from mortal to immortal of those elect who are still alive at the time of Christ's return. (1 Thessalonians 4:16) If one is described as "dead in Christ" and needs to be resurrected to be caught up and join Christ at the time of his return it seems very plain that they are not in heaven with Him at this time!





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