Twilight, chemtrails, infrared and the return of Planet X

Some interesting information on Antarctica...this is from a story about an expedition to McMurdo in 2009:

Daily Life in McMurdo

By September 21st we’ll have 12 hours of daylight. Once the sun rises on 19 October it will not set again until 24 February.

Scott Base and McMurdo are at approximately the same latitude - 78 degrees S.

reply to post by luxordelphi


In your estimation what is the angle of Earth's axial tilt these days?

How much does it now differ from 6 months ago?

reply to post by luxordelphi


Your point?



Obviously at 'dawn' the sun is near the horizon this time of year, exactly as in the video. Which, er, shows the sun and as many Nibirus as there are mammoths dancing on top of TV as I write.

reply to post by DenyObfuscation

In your estimation what is the angle of Earth's axial tilt these days? How much does it now differ from 6 months ago?

axial tilt

axial tilt The angle by which the rotational axis of the Earth differs from a right angle to the orbital plane; this angle varies between 21.5° and 24.5° over a cycle of 40 000 years and at present is about 23.5°.

According to this, it varies within 3 degrees over 40,000 years. That would be about 0.0000375 degrees every 6 months. I don't think this would be perceptible except with some very fancy equipment.

I have noticed slow down and speed up and also the sun, moon, stars and planets at the wrong elevation for my latitude. Easiest to see, of course, is stuff that is directly overhead which should never be directly overhead. I have noticed the sun and moon rising and setting too far from east and west. And also too much movement in rise/set positions. Also the vertical sun/moon set creating the crescent seen in vertical setting locations.

Now I have a question for you: in the first few frames of the video, what is that object? It's not the sun because the sun is just rising and the video starts before sunrise. It's not the moon because I've checked three or four online moonrise/moonset for McMurdo and there is no moon visible on these days.

New Zealand Antarctica.October 31 2012 SUNRISE Planet X Red Dwarf Star NIBIRU

So have a look at that and tell me what you think. Also have a look at the sunrise (you've missed it for the webcams but you can see it in the video) and tell me why you think the sun is rising when it should already be permanently risen (as of Oct. 19-20.)

reply to post by AndyMayhew

Obviously at 'dawn' the sun is near the horizon this time of year, exactly as in the video.

This thread started out about twilight for a reason. I've looked at a number of online calculators for McMurdo and Scott Base. None of them seem to indicate that twilight, civil-nautical-astronomical, is happening. They don't reference any of these twilights. They say that the sun is up all day. It supposedly rose, permanently (until sometime in Feb. anyway) on Oct. 20 or so. Why then is it rising again?

Originally posted by luxordelphi
reply to post by AndyMayhew

 

Obviously at 'dawn' the sun is near the horizon this time of year, exactly as in the video.

This thread started out about twilight for a reason. I've looked at a number of online calculators for McMurdo and Scott Base. None of them seem to indicate that twilight, civil-nautical-astronomical, is happening. They don't reference any of these twilights. They say that the sun is up all day. It supposedly rose, permanently (until sometime in Feb. anyway) on Oct. 20 or so. Why then is it rising again?

Because that is how it works during the summer time for both the Arctic and Antarctic. The sun never actually dips below the horizon, but it will dip towards and then rise again.

During the winters in both places, the sun finally stops rising above the horizon at all. Towards the begining of that phase and the end of it, there will be a glow from the sun getting close to the horizon, but again, it won't actually rise above it until later.

The closer you get to either the North Pole or the South Pole, the longer this will last.

So again, during the summer time at the South Pole (and when it is summer at the North Pole), the sun each day will appear to rise up in the sky, then as evening approaches, it will dip down towards the horizon, but will never actually pass below it. Instead, it will seem to hug the horizon for a while, then will rise again, and will look like the sun is making a circle around you.

Edit:

here's a picture of what I'm talking about:

reply to post by eriktheawful

The sun never actually dips below the horizon, but it will dip towards and then rise again.

In the video I put up here:

New Zealand Antarctica.October 31 2012 SUNRISE Planet X Red Planet Dwarf Star NIBIRU

...there's no dipping going on. The sun rises. From below the horizon. It takes about 45 minutes or so to do that. Care to address the video I put up rather than going off on tangents of your own?

I'm asking, why is the sun rising at Scott Base when it already supposedly rose on Oct. 19-20? Simple question really.

Just to be clear: I'm not talking about, nor is the video displaying:

So again, during the summer time at the South Pole (and when it is summer at the North Pole), the sun each day will appear to rise up in the sky...

I am talking about the sun rising, in the normal and common and traditional sense and NOT about the sun 'rising up' in the sky in the sense of dipping.

reply to post by luxordelphi

I have noticed slow down and speed up and also the sun, moon, stars and planets at the wrong elevation for my latitude.

It seems that your personal elevation may be excessive for your latitude.

I watched the Moon set this morning and I've been watching it rise tonight. It absolutely will not be directly overhead tonight. You need some equipment to accurately measure what you claim.

reply to post by luxordelphi

I am talking about the sun rising, in the normal and common and traditional sense and NOT about the sun 'rising up' in the sky in the sense of dipping.

When do you see this? I do not.

reply to post by luxordelphi


yes I watched the video when you first posted it.

It is showing exactly what I tried to describe to you: during the summer time, the sun will never set below the horizon, but will appear to skim it.

Imagine the halo on an angel (sorry, only thing I can think of as it's late and I need to get to bed), a golden circle.

Now hold that circle parallel over the land, then tilt it so that one side of the circle comes close to the horizon.

That's the path the sun takes during the summer in the Antarctic or Arctic circles.

I'm not making this up. It's a well documented fact for hundreds of years (longer if you listen to the natives that live in the norther areas of Alaska and Canada).

In your video, you an clearly see in two different instances where the sun is skimming the horizon like it is suppose to during this time of year.

Now, what tangent did I go off on? I thought that is what you asked about?

reply to post by DenyObfuscation

It seems that your personal elevation may be excessive for your latitude.

This statement is meaningless as far as directly overhead and heavenly vertical descent go. The ecliptic follows latitudinal lines. Vertical descent of ecliptic bodies is possible in the tropics and sub-tropics because of this. That's why we had the discussion about twilight at the equator, the sudden death way of it, because the ecliptic bodies are not angled there as they are in mid-latitudes and at the poles - they are head on and don't skim the horizon as they descend.

I watched the Moon set this morning and I've been watching it rise tonight. It absolutely will not be directly overhead tonight. You need some equipment to accurately measure what you claim.

For me, an observer in mid-latitudes, the Pleiades and the moon continue directly overhead. A consolation is that there have been no abrupt changes. I don't know if you've noticed because I don't know how observant you are BUT right before changes there is a feeling sort of like abrupt altitude change or a rush of wind without the wind. The kind that gets your ears to popping. This has been on for awhile and it seems to correlate with shifts of viewpoint in the heavens. It's another clue for those who are not visually oriented or who tend to mistrust their own eyes.

(Discussion of sun rise as opposed to sun up all day but low in the sky in Antarctica follows next post. Also, discussion of IF things are overhead for 38 degrees N, what would that do to the viewing in Antarctica - sunrise would be affected.)

reply to post by eriktheawful

It is showing exactly what I tried to describe to you: during the summer time, the sun will never set below the horizon, but will appear to skim it.

Because none of us have ever been to Antarctica, I've put together a scenario of what happens, based on internet available information, when the sun rises at 78 degrees S. In the video, the sun is rising on Oct. 31 at 78 degrees S. It should already be above the horizon on this date. It should not be rising regardless of how close to the horizon it is. According to the person who wrote about his 2009 experiences at McMurdo, the sun rose on Oct. 19 and was not to set again until Feb. According to various rise/set times on the internet, the sun rises (not to set again until Feb.) on Oct. 24. This date is the same back to 1991 based on these software calculation set-ups. So here are 3 different dates for sunrise already. (I'm not talking about the sunrise-sunset that precedes the permanent rise.)

So my surprise with the video is twofold: the sun is rising on Oct. 31 when it should already be permanently up as of Oct. 24 by the internet soft-ware and as of Oct. 19 by someone who was actually there. 2nd: the moon is not visible over those days at 78 degrees S, so the object that is in the sky prior to sunrise is not the moon even though it's large enough to look like the moon.

Within the Antarctic Circle which begins at some 66 plus odd degrees S, there is a period of time when the sun does not set but stays above the horizon.

In order, it would start with twilight, which could last some weeks depending on how far south inside the circle and would change gradually to the sun rising and setting for a period of time and then, finally, the sun would rise and not set again until fall when the whole process would reverse.

So, in order, this is what sunrise would be like:

Rise, Set, and Twilight Definitions/Navy

Astronomical twilight is defined to begin in the morning...when the center of the Sun is geometrically 18 degrees below the horizon

Nautical twilight is defined to begin in the morning...when the center of the sun is geometrically 12 degrees below the horizon

Civil twilight is defined to begin in the morning...when the center of the Sun is geometrically 6 degrees below the horizon

Sun and smiles return to the South Pole

The U.S. Naval Observatory defines sunrise as when the leading edge of the sun clears the horizon

Some different definitions of twilight adding one:

Astronomical Sunrise

Astronomical twilight (the sky is completely dark)

Amateur astronomical twilight (the sky is dark enough for most astronomical observations) 15 degrees, AMATEUR

Nautical twilight (navigation using a sea horizon no longer possible)

Civil twilight (one can no longer read outside without artificial illumination)

Sunrise-Sun's supper limb touches the horizon; atmospheric refraction accounted for/0.833 degrees, DEFAULT

Some further definitions of twilight:

Twilight

Twilight is the time between dawn and sunrise or between sunset and dusk, during which sunlight scattering in the upper atmosphere illuminates the lower atmosphere, and the surface of the earth is neither completely lit nor completely dark.

At the poles, civil twilight can be as long as two weeks, while at the equator, conditions can go from day to night in as little as twenty minutes.

The lowest latitudes at which the various twilights can continue through local midnight are approximately 60.561° (60° 33’ 43”) for civil twilight, 54.561° (54° 33’ 43”) for nautical twilight and 48.561° (48° 33’ 43”) for astronomical twilight.

Here is a site that has graphed the extremes:

Sun Rise and Set times

The most extreme contrast to the first graph, of sunrise and sunset at the equator, is provided by the South (or North) Pole, shown above. Six months of daylight, from Spring to Autumn, are followed by nearly two months of fading twilight, nearly three months of darkness, and a further two months of brightning twilight before the sun is seen again.

Nibiru is like your Moby Dick. Except whales actually exist.

I wish nothing but health and happiness to all, but I do get a wee bit of smug comfort knowing you're gonna chase this thing your whole life and never get so much as a scintilla of evidence that it exists.

reply to post by luxordelphi


Okay, I'm trying to figure out why you think that the sun will not dip towards and away from the horizon at 78 deg S (which by the way, Scott Base where those webcams are located is at S 77 deg, but I won't quibble a degree), and instead, act like they are at S 90 deg. They are not.

It's only directly at the south pole itself, S 90 Deg where the sun will not dip at all for a certain time period during their summer.

Move away from S 90 deg to the north, and the sun will appear to dip towards and then back up away from the horizon.
This is because while during the southern hemisphere's summer the Earth's south pole is tilted towards the sun, it is only directly at S 90 Deg that with the Earth's spin that the sun will appear that way. As you move away from 90 deg further north, you are no longer directly on the Earth's axis, but are now moving in a circle.

You can test this yourself, simply by spinning your body in place while looking straight up. Everything directly over head, and all the way to the edge of your vision will appear to rotate around you.
Now go get on a merry go round. Sit on the edge while a friend turns it and look straight up. Notice how now that you are further from the center of spin, things do move, and not directly circle around you.

Here's a video I did using Stellarium. The first part of the video is close to the South Pole at S 89 Deg, Notice how the sun stays above the horizon and doesn't dip very much.
Then I move the date back to Oct 30th and move the location to S 78 Deg, and do it again. This time you'll see the sun partially dip below the horizon like it's suppose to. All because at Scott Base is not actually at the South Pole itself. It's 13 degrees north of it:



As for the "object":

I'm sorry Lux, but I have to call lens or glass artifact on that. The webcams are not sitting out exposed. They'll be either in a container with a plexiglass dome or a box with a plexiglass cover, and taking pictures/video of the sun through a window will produce all sorts of interesting looking things that are not really there.

BTW - You're right, I've never been to the Antarctic. But I have been above the Arctic circle for about 2 weeks while I was in the US Navy during a North Atlantic deployment. It was cold, during the winter, with some of the nastiest rough seas I've ever been in, throwing us around like rag dolls. The sun would only come out to play for a couple of hours and then plunge us in darkness again. Was very surreal.

reply to post by ColAngus

I wish nothing but health and happiness to all, but I do get a wee bit of smug comfort knowing you're gonna chase this thing your whole life and never get so much as a scintilla of evidence that it exists.

There's plenty of evidence for Planet X (and growing all the time) and also plenty of evidence of a conspiracy to cover it up (which begs the ever fascinating question of motive). So, either way, thanks for your contribution.

Originally posted by luxordelphi
There's plenty of evidence for Planet X (and growing all the time) and also plenty of evidence of a conspiracy to cover it up (which begs the ever fascinating question of motive).

No, you've identified so-called "evidence" that you insist supports your belief that Planet X exists, but no actual evidence of its existence.

Is every fallen tree in a forest caused by someone chopping it down? Even assuming for the sake of argument that your "evidence" is even remotely correct (moon being wonky is my fave), there's no reason to immediately jump to the assumption that's it's all the result of a rogue planet/brown dwarf.

You're a classic case of the conspiracy-theorist favoring a specific result, and then molding,shaping, distorting, molesting all of the evidence so that it somehow reaches said desired conclusion.

Cheers.

reply to post by eriktheawful

Okay, I'm trying to figure out why you think that the sun will not dip towards and away from the horizon at 78 deg S...

Why try to figure this out when that's not what I said but what you said in your tangent display. I'm talking about the sun rising and setting below the horizon. I gave you all the definitions. What's the problem?

It's only directly at the south pole itself, S 90 Deg where the sun will not dip at all for a certain time period during their summer.

I'm talking about the sun setting BELOW THE HORIZON. Is that what you mean by 'dipping?' Read the guys thing from McMurdo:

Daily Life in McMurdo

Since we’ve been here the length of daylight is getting noticeably longer. When we arrived last Wednesday sunrise was at 10:53AM and sunset was at 2:59PM. Today sunrise is at 9:41AM and sunset is at 4:08PM, giving us more than 2 hours more daylight now than just a week ago. By September 21st we’ll have 12 hours of daylight. Once the sun rises on 19 October it will not set again until 24 February.

McMurdo Station

McMurdo lies at 77.86º south latitude

Scott Base (Antarctica)

Latitude/longitude: 77°50′56″S

Here's a sunrise/sunset calculator set to McMurdo and it shows that the sun is up ALL DAY. It doesn't set. There are no sunrise times.

Sunrise and Sunset in McMurdo

BTW - You're right, I've never been to the Antarctic. But I have been above the Arctic circle for about 2 weeks while I was in the US Navy during a North Atlantic deployment.

I've been to 64 degrees N. Even at 57 degrees N there used to be one day out of the year when the sun just touched the horizon and then rose again. (That is no longer so every year because of Planet X.)

I'm sorry Lux, but I have to call lens or glass artifact on that.

I don't think that's lens flare but I'll try to get a capture of it so we can discuss further. (Correct that to: I appreciate that in your opinion it's lens flare, however, imo, it's not.)

reply to post by ColAngus

No, you've identified so-called "evidence" that you insist supports your belief that Planet X exists, but no actual evidence of its existence.

Better, smarter, far more credentialed people than me have been searching for it since the 1960's. I don't think you really know what you're talking about but, congratulations for returning to ATS with a brain and not just comic relief. Some of your argument is valid:

...there's no reason to immediately jump to the assumption that's it's all the result of a rogue planet/brown dwarf.

However, the explanations sans Planet X are pretty much out at the extreme spokes.

Originally posted by luxordelphi

reply to post by ColAngus

 

No, you've identified so-called "evidence" that you insist supports your belief that Planet X exists, but no actual evidence of its existence.

Better, smarter, far more credentialed people than me have been searching for it since the 1960's. I don't think you really know what you're talking about but, congratulations for returning to ATS with a brain and not just comic relief. Some of your argument is valid:

...there's no reason to immediately jump to the assumption that's it's all the result of a rogue planet/brown dwarf.

However, the explanations sans Planet X are pretty much out at the extreme spokes.

You say this as if you expect the rest of the world to think that this whole rogue planet/star theory is NOT a bit far fetched

So when are we supposed to see this fantasy planet, sir? So many different people tell so many different stories, its hard to keep track of these days.