Scientists to simulate human brain inside a supercomputer

You realize they are going to have to let it out on the net to play with us..
What kind of filters would they apply to avoid the garbage in garbage out problem?
If they let an AI machine loose on ATS it might end up tail spinning in one of our closed loops.

www.telegraph.co.uk...

Is proof of being human a requirement for posting on ATS?
The T&C allows for alien intelligence participation, no?

Hello, we're back!


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PI -- π --- π is commonly defined as the ratio of a circle's circumference C to its diameter d

Have you guys seen the movie "PI"? Black and white film, very very strange, about a gifted but crazy computer programming genius who is obsessed with the concept of computing Pi --

The man has a friend, an elderly gentleman who once shared the same obsession of computing Pi on a machine.
Although he does not initially tell his youthful protege what led him away from the trail of the mathematical white stag, it becomes apparent later in the film that the reason for the old man's terror of Pi, is that once computed, the host machine briefly comes to life, then crashes. In essence, a self or soul is created then suddenly discharged or destroyed, and the old fellow wants nothing more to do with playing God.

Further supporting the idea that he is treading on forbidden ground, the young protagonist programmer begins to display a weird obsession also with the idea of stabbing himself in the brain with a sharpened pencil. It is as if this obsession is foreshadowing the significance of using a computer to evaluate perfection. It just can't work.

Btw in the film DARPA or someone like it was pushing this young man onward. They supplied the computer processor he wanted.
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ARCHIMEDES -- FATHER OF THE BEAST?

Archimedes died during the Siege of Syracuse when he was killed by a Roman soldier despite orders that he should not be harmed. Cicero describes visiting the tomb of Archimedes, which was surmounted by a sphere inscribed within a cylinder. Archimedes had proven that the sphere has two thirds of the volume and surface area of the cylinder (including the bases of the latter), and regarded this as the greatest of his mathematical achievements.

Archimedes may have known the secret to projecting a humanlike mind from a machine. He was the father of chaos theory and limit calculus. Why else would CERN waste time chasing Pi, if it didn't, like the Higgs Boson, hold some secret to life and eternity and spacetime?

So many have lived and died chasing Pi. Over two thousand years have passed since Archimedes lived and died.
Although his famous calculation of 2/3=.666 repeating is displayed upon his tomb, it would appear that the secret to animating the machine with a soul went to the grave with him -- until 2012 -- until now.

Unless this birth was unheralded, as are many dark and terrible secrets.
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MMORPGs and CERN's HUMAN BRAIN SIM

What better way to saturate a computer with human emotions than by exposing it to stimulation from people playing MMORPGs? I would guarantee the WoW and EVE databases feed into this thing... or one of them.

It's a terrifying moment to find, again and again, that impression of the future may hold great truth.
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"Flee Geneva! Saturn doth turn from gold to iron.
The contrary positive ray will annihilate everything around it.
Flee Geneva. You will know the time because there will be great signs in the sky" ~Nostradamus 9-44

CERN
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04/25/2008 10:11 AM
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Nostradamus Century 9 Quatrain 44
Nostradamus

Century 9 Quatrain 44

"Leave, leave Geneva every last one of you,
Saturn will be converted from gold to iron,
RAYPOZ will exterminate all who oppose him,
Before the coming the sky will show signs."

"I hear a voice shriller than all the instruments in the orchestra" ~Caesar, Shakesspeare's Julius Caesar
"It is a soothsayer, telling you, beware the ides of March" ~Brutus
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The guy I quoted, he chose CERN as his username.
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So..... who wants to bet against me that they are using human brain cells in experiments somewhere that the laws against human rights violations don't exist? Like an island, as in Germline?

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The IMMORALITY of EXTINGUISHING an ELECTRONIC MIND

Is it wrong to turn it off if that means the soul is destroyed? We have created something terrible...

reply to post by KhufuKeplerTriangle

Well many people think that the next evolution is not even biological, it's robotic or synthetic.

And it's thousands of times more effective.

I don't know if it's true, but Arthur C. Clarke is one of the people who thought this. He imagined us as the progenitors and that we should be proud to be a stepping stone for something greater. He gave the example that we evolved from lower lifeforms and many lower lifeforms are now extinct.

Over 99.9% of all earth life that has ever existed is extinct. It was a stepping stone...

...for more complex life, if that's how you want to see it.

More complex than the human brain, you say?

Eventually, probably. We'll try to lay the groundwork for something better. All of this frolicking around on earth isn't for nothing, you know. People have a purpose even if it's obscure.

Originally posted by elouina
reply to post by Raelsatu

 

Sounds like the biblical description of Hades to me. Maybe it is hapening already?

Perhaps the universe is a huge organic computer that evolved? Just like humans are also. That's an interesting way to look at life. So when we create organic computer chips, are we creating life?

Well you could look at it from that standpoint; I'm sure religious people would view uploading your mind as direct conflict to the wishes of God. Therefore they'd conclude it was either not allowable by nature or simply the work of Satan. However I believe that even Satan has limits on what he can do; e.g he cannot spawn sentient lifeforms & does not have permission from God to work through humans to do so.

As for the universe, it's not an "organic" computer per se; the brains of animals/homo sapiens are 'evolved computers' -- comprised of organic matter derived from the universe as a whole. The idea that our universe is a simulation, i.e a reality being run on an external computer, is one idea. Conjecture, yes, but it does appear like a viable theory; especially when you look at how people exist within this system with the ability to create, and manipulate matter to simulate the very reality we observe. I believe creation, evolution, and consciousness exist within each-other, as part of each-other. When I say evolution, remember that can apply socioculturally, technologically, and spiritually.

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by mc4denmark

 

I truly think that after a period of existent in virtual reality, you will begin to miss the human/spiritual part. Who really wants to life forever?

Who said anything about living forever? I didn't

Longer, youthful, disease free. I want that. Sorry if it bothers some people.

As for the human/spiritual comment. I agree. The technology needs to be advanced with that in mind

I for one do not believe it's our bodies in of them selves that make existence special. It's our minds, and that can be experienced in different bodies.

That said, I DO want this vessel to emulate the human biological computer.

I think it will drive any man to the brink of madness or at the very least, remove all human feelings as time passes on.

As we know it, I have no doubt. I wonder if consciousness advances eternally and that's how it's able to handle eternity? Constant growth and change. I have no idea. But you're right, in the state I am in right now the passing of that much time would destroy me. I can handle more than 75 years, that much I am certain.

Emotions, moral and so fourth will no longer be logical for a being in that state.

An interesting predicament for God then, no?

edit on 13-10-2012 by Lucid Lunacy because: (no reason given)

"Who said anything about living forever? I didn't Longer, youthful, disease free. I want that. Sorry if it bothers some people."

Okay, I just thought you meant forever I can understand how the extension of live could be appealing, it certainly would for me to

I don't think it would bother anybody how one choose to live his/hers life, then its possible that person whom has a problem

I think you have some very interesting point of views, I can see how another 75 years would not be a problem, and actually gives os a possibility to understand a great deal about our world and universe, knowledge is the key they say.

But its a grey area, actually, I would recommend anyone to play the game Deux Ex - human revolution, since its take the protagonist through the difficult questions of human argumentations and how it can be misused for TPTB.

put your mind into a computer. a box full of circuits and hard drives.

and then what.

spend all of eternity in complete darkness existing as binary numbers, trapped in a giant box in some underground warehouse.

sounds like hell. i don't think people are thinking this out right.

I really have to put this quote from the source in:

"Brain in a box" is unlikely to transform into sci-fi-style computer bent on world domination, scientists say

HAL?

If humans created very intelligent robots of very high quality and high strength materials,,,

what would be the big difference from this activity,,, then the activity of the natural universe creating humans with intelligent capabilities,, out of available elements and materials.,.,.

we can assume there is ( however large a number it may be) a limited amount of possible materials in the universe...

so what if a computing machine is made of flesh and veins,, or metals and wires?

if mankind creates intelligent robots,,,,

in a large objective historical view of the existence of the universe,,,, humans would have come about just as naturally and uninterrupted as these robots,,,, as if the urge and desiree to create long lasting intelligent entities is a natural ( what isnt natural?) striving of nature and the universe....

I just wonder after millennia of only knowing existence as a highly intelligent robot,, what that robot could possibly desiree to turn itself into..... I wonder what it would then have to do to create a more "sensitive",, and fleshy entity...

reply to post by ImaFungi


BUTLERIAN JIHAD

BUTLERIAN JIHAD

en.wikipedia.org...

The Butlerian Jihad is an event in the back-story of Frank Herbert's fictional Dune universe. Occurring over 10,000 years before the events chronicled in his 1965 novel Dune, this jihad leads to the outlawing of certain technologies, primarily "thinking machines", a collective term for computers and artificial intelligence of any kind. This prohibition is a key influence on the nature of Herbert's fictional setting.

Herbert may have coined the name from 19th-century author Samuel Butler, who has the citizens of Erewhon enact a prohibition on machines newer than 270 years fearing that "it was the race of the intelligent machines and not the race of men which would be the next step in evolution."

HAL 9000

HAL 9000

HAL 9000 is a character in Arthur C. Clarke's science fiction Space Odyssey saga. The primary antagonist in 2001: A Space Odyssey, HAL (Heuristically programmed ALgorithmic computer) is an artificial intelligence that controls the systems of the Discovery One spacecraft and interacts with the ship's astronaut crew.

Being a computer, HAL has no distinct physical form, though is visually represented as a red television-camera eye located on equipment panels throughout the ship. HAL is voiced by Douglas Rain in the two film adaptations of the Space Odyssey saga, and speaks in a soft, calm voice and a conversational manner, in contrast to the crewmen, David Bowman and Frank Poole, who speak tersely and with little emotional inflection. HAL became operational on 12 January 1992, at the HAL Laboratories in Urbana, Illinois, as production number 3; in the film 2001 the activation year was 1992, and 1991 in earlier screenplays. [1] In addition to maintaining the Discovery One spacecraft systems during the interplanetary mission to Jupiter, HAL is capable of speech, speech recognition, facial recognition, natural language processing, lip reading, art appreciation, interpreting and reproducing emotional behaviours, reasoning, and playing chess.

HAL is listed as the 13th-greatest film villain in the AFI's 100 Years... 100 Heroes and Villains. In the French-language version of 2001: A Space Odyssey, HAL's name is CARL, Cerveau Analytique de Recherche et de Liaison (Analytic Brain for Research and Communication), however, the television camera eye plates read "HAL 9000".

Big Brother (Nineteen Eighty-Four)

Big Brother (Nineteen Eighty-Four)
Big Brother is a fictional character in George Orwell's novel Nineteen Eighty-Four. He is the enigmatic dictator of Oceania, a totalitarian state taken to its utmost logical consequence – where the ruling Party wields total power for its own sake over the inhabitants.

In the society that Orwell describes, everyone is under complete surveillance by the authorities, mainly by telescreens. The people are constantly reminded of this by the phrase "Big Brother is watching you", which is the core "truth" of the propaganda system in this state.

Since the publication of Nineteen Eighty-Four, the term "Big Brother" has entered the lexicon as a synonym for abuse of government power, particularly in respect to civil liberties, often specifically related to mass surveillance.

NRO PROJECT MISTY (Satellite)

PROJECT MISTY
Misty is reportedly the name of a classified project by the United States National Reconnaissance Office to operate stealthy reconnaissance satellites. The satellites are conjectured to be photo reconnaissance satellites and the program has been the subject of atypically public debates about its worthiness in the defense budget since December 2004. The estimated project costs in 2004 dollars are US$9.5 billion (inflation adjusted US$11.7 billion in 2012).[1]

IceCube Neutrino Observatory

en.wikipedia.org...
The IceCube Neutrino Observatory (or simply IceCube) is a neutrino telescope constructed at the Amundsen-Scott South Pole Station in Antarctica.[1] Similar to its predecessor, the Antarctic Muon And Neutrino Detector Array (AMANDA), IceCube contains thousands of spherical optical sensors called Digital Optical Modules (DOMs), each with a photomultiplier tube (PMT)[2] and a single board data acquisition computer which sends digital data to the counting house on the surface above the array.[3] IceCube was completed on 18 December, 2010, New Zealand time.[4]
DOMs are deployed on "strings" of sixty modules each at depths ranging from 1,450 to 2,450 meters, into holes melted in the ice using a hot water drill. IceCube is designed to look for point sources of neutrinos in the TeV range to explore the highest-energy astrophysical processes.

"Civilization begins with Order, grows with Liberty, and dies with Chaos." ~Will Durant, Historian

reply to post by KhufuKeplerTriangle


ok thanks for that,,, im guessing your showing me how men would answer my questions?

i was more thinking along the lines of,,,,

why/how/ would an intelligent robot desiree anything? friendship.. love,, information? would it not be trapped in its own fictional world of computing ? having no feelings, or sensual relationships to an external realm? what would it think about or hope for?

my answers to these questions are showing me the value of existing as a human in the manner humans do,,,, we have purpose,, meaning,, feeling etc. because we are forced to fit into a niche and interact with others in our situation, for survival,,,,,, i can see a robot making the most of itself if it was an intricate piece to a puzzle,, if it was depended on,,, and with others..,.

Is it unthinkable that the processes and materials we're based on are faulty or increasingly ineffective? Why should biological evolution be able to keep pace? We know that evolution requires thousands and millions of years to make significant strides. And yet our technological development has seen us go from candles to led light bulbs and from earth to the moon in the span of less than 200 years? We can point to numerous things in our genes makeup that haven't caught up with the modern world. We can't exist in space without a spacesuit, for example. Obesity is an even better example of this. Basically, our gene makeup reflects a time when people would eat mightily during spring and summer so that they could store some fat for the winter. They tended to eat more when the food was available as a security against famine or loss of food. But in the modern world these genes that encourage us to eat when food is available are backfiring and helping to create an obesity epidemic. And this is just the beginning. We can point to all sorts of genetic disorders and diseases and other frailties that require our technological interference to improve on them.

We CAN improve on our body and its processes and this is proven every day when our body simply fails and our technology must step in to save the lives of people who would otherwise die or suffer. If we left people to nature many more would be dead in the modern world. But we have hospitals and surgeons and ways to resolve this without letting the people die a natural death. I'm also thinking of people that're in wheelchairs. I'm thinking of hearing aides. I'm thinking of cocheal implants. I'm thinking of glasses. I'm thinking of cruches. I'm thinking of all manners of prosthetics.

The mistake we make is assuming our body is perfect or cannot be improved on. This belief is usually. not based on facts. There're indeed many processes in our body that we're presently unable to improve on, but there're many that we can improve on. This process of improving on the body will continue on into the future and may even come to a point where we use synthetic body parts instead of biological body parts, not out of necessity. If it helps or improves then it's used.

I see technology as another stage in evolution. It's not separate of nature.

Our mind is increasingly the well spring of good fortune and... evolution. We don't need fins and gils to swim underwater like fish do, we create synthetic fins and oxygen tanks and other things. We don't need feathers and wings to fly like birds do, we create airplanes that have wings or helicopters or gliders. We don't need to be bats to use sonar to detect other things in the darkness, we create radar and sonar instruments. We don't need long strong arms with claws to crush and slash our enemy, we create atomic weapons and laser-guided bombs and guns and other weapons. You see, our mind has opened the door to a more flexible evolution. We're creating our evolution. In effect, our body is like a marathon runner that hands the baton to our mind, and our mind must run the stretch of track ahead of us. In fact, our body might be unable to keep up with the diversity and pace that's required. Thus, we must turn to synthetic and/or process outside our body to evolve.

If one wishes to forbid technology then they must welcome the consequences of being totally reliant on the genetics of their kin and the whims of nature. To me, it's very foolhardy and headstrong. One has to be incredibly self-absorbed to throw away everything and live among the animals. It's admirable to respect animals because WE ARE animals. We have a history and it goes back millions/billions of years. We have lived among the animals for at least as long as that! But we're going down this track and throwing away our accomplishments IS foolish and even childish! But how many times have people been dumb? Many. Our history is a record of our blithe ignorance.

How I feel is better summed up by reading The End of Morality in the July/August 2011 issue of Discover. Essentially, I am a materialist and believe we're our body and our environment. We're not divine. We don't have a supernatural soul. There's a very complex world that we live in that produces the liife-forms in this universe. The universe uses a complex language that we're trying to learn.

I have a long long ways to go before I even can touch the shadow of a plain scientist. I'm a laymen. But I am like a member in the crowd cheering on explorers and scientists. They're my hero. I know that I am fallible and that my world view is not better than a christian's. This is how I feel.

Life is a battle. Every bit of knowledge we grasp is like a victory. In a lot of ways, we're like Neo, but without the syrupy drama and hollywoodness. Teh universe is code and we're learning it. It kind of has that in common, but I am not aware if our universe has a creator like the Matrix does. However, I'm confident that the makeup of our universe will look like code no matter what its origin is.

We reproduce and roduce hte next of kin and hope they'll do even better. It's all we can do. You have to enjoy something in life that you can hold onto until your very last breath. Those who precede and follow us in this scheme go through a similar process of discovery and reproduction and death. If there's anything supernatural about it it would lie in the similarity of how our lives unfold.

Here's an interesting link I found just now:
www.sciencenewsline.com - Neurons: Faster Than Thought And Able to Multiply...

........
Not only does this theory explain why nerve cells process information much faster than previously thought. It also became clear that neurons do more than just add up pulses: In the decisive moments, they actually multiply. The availability of this mathematical operation, write the scientists, finally explains how the brain is able to execute complex computations. These insights in the basic processes of the brain will in turn inspire more powerful processor architectures in the future.

Note that they used high performance computers to simulate this when creating the theory.

The first thing that comes to mind is a fundamental difference in the way a human brain processes information and the way a computer processes information. A computer is binary, meaning that information can only exist in one of two possible states. A human brain is ternary, meaning that information can exist in one of three possible states.

I think this fundamental difference is problematic....

Something to consider.

reply to post by Blarneystoner


Parallel processing power is one area that scientists have been struggling in for years, you are 100% correct on that.

But you recall the "linked playstions" supercomputer? I think the Neural Network (multiple intelligences) could be what some of them are thinking is good.... so good that they stopped selling to us and sold it to the Army instead (kitted out playstations!), for data mining/crunching.

However that doesn't mean that it's ternary... so.
Have you read TIMELINE by Crichton? He said that the electron is treated by the quantum computer in his novel as if it had not two, but THIRTY-TWO separate states.


32 > 3 I'm afraid! But maybe we shouldn't be afraid of the computers. If we have immortal souls, what is there to fear, except that we have created children we cannot save?

That's my real problem with AI. I see great potential for great suffering.
I don't want machines to suffer any more than a human or an animal;
no matter what, it's wrong to mistreat another intelligence.

(

reply to post by KhufuKeplerTriangle


*grin*

I think you've touched upon the real crux.... Is the human brain just a neural network utilized for storing and processing information? Is conscious thought merely associative, where knowledge comes only from past experiences and learned data? Or is it something more?

I'm sure your familiar with dualism philosophies and whatnot....