Forbidden fruit and ego. Is there a connection?

From time to time I have this 'crazy' theories and one of them just came into light and it seems perfect for ATS!
It is about our ego, it's history and the question - "is it removable?".

Ancient scriptures from Bible and Quran tell us about Adam and Eve, and the forbidden fruit they consumed, despite the fact that God, their creator, have told them not to because they would "surely die" and the God was right.

2:16 Then the Lord God commanded the man, “You may freely eat fruit from every tree of the orchard, 2:17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will surely die.”

Obviously this "forbidden truth" is actually knowlege of good and evil.
According to story, Satan convinced Eve and Adam to eat the forbidden fruit, for wich Satan claimed it will "open their eyes".

3:6 When the woman saw that the tree produced fruit that was good for food, was attractive to the eye, and was desirable for making one wise, she took some of its fruit and ate it. She also gave some of it to her husband who was with her, and he ate it.

After they ate the forbidden fruit this is what happened:

3:7 Then the eyes of both of them opened, and they knew they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.

In other words. They suddeny felt ashamed of their intimate parts of the body and embarrassed, since they found out they were naked.

They never before knew or realised they were naked. Indeed it seems the serpent was right, forbidden fruit opened their eyes to knowledge they never had before - shame or ego.

According to this story, we, humans, were originally created without ego and later, by our own fault we received the knowledge of 'evil', we became ashamed.


*I am curious, like most of you. I wonder if this "ego" could be removed.
Could we remove ego from our brain, to reverse the effect of the "forbidden fruit"?
There are certain parts of the brain wich are responsible for making us feel a shame. Here is a Link to a study conducted by University of California in wich they reportedly found a part in the brain that is responsible for making us feel ashamed. If we remove this part(s) from our brain, could this mean that we reversed the effect of the "forbidden fruit", that is knowledge of good and evil?
Should this venture require us to engineer ourselves? To modify our genes? And if all of this is true, then the question is do we have a right to do this to ourselves?

...Either way I found this article (LINK) highly objective and an answer to many questions i raised. Have a good read and please, speak your mind on this topic freely. After all, it is a rant.

Ego is part of it but the forbidden fruit is actually self-awareness. The moment they "bit the fruit" or noticed they were naked was the moment they became self-aware.

Self-awareness is what leads to ego. The Garden of Eden story is an allegory for our natural evolution as a species. Eden represents Earth before our self-awareness, once self-awareness then ego came along Eden turned into Sheol or hell.

So if they hadn't eaten the fruit they could be immortal and have no reason to reproduce other than possibly loneliness, and they would still be alive today and toiling about the garden of Eden.

Logically thinking, anyway.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
Ego is part of it but the forbidden fruit is actually self-awareness. The moment they "bit the fruit" or noticed they were naked was the moment they became self-aware.

Self-awareness is what leads to ego. The Garden of Eden story is an allegory for our natural evolution as a species. Eden represents Earth before our self-awareness, once self-awareness then ego came along Eden turned into Sheol or hell.

edit on 11-10-2012 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

Yeah, I never reckon they literally ate the fruit and became what they are. And I think you're right, this "self-awaraness", or ego is in fact - subjectivity.

Originally posted by EvilSadamClone
So if they hadn't eaten the fruit they could be immortal and have no reason to reproduce other than possibly loneliness, and they would still be alive today and toiling about the garden of Eden.

Logically thinking, anyway.

Yes and the garden of Eden is like a heaven and there is only good, and everything we expirience there is the way God devised it in his (subjective) reality. So, we basically expirience God's reality in the "garden of eden", and since it is not our own reality, it is called 'objective'.
While here on earth, we live in our own world - subjective reality. Meaning that we become as gods (have our own (subjective) reality) and we see ourselves in a center of the universe.
Now I can see why Einstein himself described this world saying: "Everything is relative", because it is, since we have the knowlege of good and evil.
I advise you to read the article i linked in the bottom of the first post.

Ok I get your line of reasoning. However I do not wish to simply be a created automaton, in that what exactly were we before "The Fall"?

The Ego may keep me from being controlled or manipulated to remove it might be like a mental slavery.

Ego is why we ate the fruit, imho. We were told not to, but we thought we knew better, can you get anymore egotistical than thinking you know better than God?

The fruit gave us the knowledge of good and evil or duality. Judgement was born, 'tosses confetti in the air, passes out cigars'

Originally posted by abeverage
Ok I get your line of reasoning. However I do not wish to simply be a created automaton, in that what exactly were we before "The Fall"?

The Ego may keep me from being controlled or manipulated to remove it might be like a mental slavery.

I thought about that too. - What's it like without ego or subjectivity - not being able to expirience and have no free will, because everything is good and everything is the same because everything is objective.
Sounds like a prison, perhaps?

reply to post by Fichorka


I imagine it as somewhat like being an animal. Animals don't understand what good and evil are. Animals are objective unlike humans. Subjectivity is another effect of self-awareness.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by Fichorka

 

I imagine it as somewhat like being an animal. Animals don't understand what good and evil are. Animals are objective unlike humans

Straight to the point! I agree.

I will give you my interpretation on this which I have posted to some extent previously but it is always interesting to think about.

I think most Christians believe in fairy tales and not in God. They believe in a cute little wooden ark with the giraffe's head poking out of it, a big bearded God sleeping on a cloud, and a red-horned man-bull called the Devil and if you challenge that then "it doesn't matter". I would argue that it does matter. I could be 100% convinced my father is Gandalf the Grey my entire life and if I did would you say I actually knew who he was?

The early apostles taught truth which was eradicated by the Roman Church and replaced with paganism and all of these fairly tale images which we enjoy today and are reinforced year by year. It is simple to understand why we have these images and difficult to understand why churches cannot effectively communicate them.

If we stepped in to the Prometheus movie universe we would have trouble explaining what we saw flying around us probably using words like hover-"car", rounded-"ship". We certainly would not use the words that actually describe those objects in that universe unless we lived in it. Take someone that has spent 30-60 years in this reality and place him in to a different one with different physics at a radically different level of advancement for 30 minutes and when he comes back and explains it to someone that never stepped through that door he is going to use words have context to the person he is speaking to. Hence "garden", "tree", "apple", "snake" and all of the rest.

I believe in the actual existence of God in a different realm or dimension which is called Heaven. That is evidenced by the 'veil' being lifted at one point to show the army of angels that could come to the defense.

I believe the "fruit" was not an "apple" and the action was not the "eating" of "fruit" and there aren't two "trees" with different types of "fruit". Eden was not a "garden" but a place within the veil. I believe the discussion of good and evil is out of context to us. I believe Adam and Eve were genetically different prior their expulsion being part spirit and part flesh.

I also believe they had an incredible amount of knowledge both before and after but that their knowledge was primarily of Eden behind the veil.

The "snake" was a full spirit being in the veil and I think it is true that he was envious of Adam and Eve and wanted to remove them from the presence of God. He played on the vanity and pride that they already had (hence not animals) and convinced them to attempt something that they had been warned to stay away from. Think Superman in the Ice Fortress stepping in to that device that stripped him of his power.

Instead of becoming like God and becoming fully spiritual the exact opposite happened and they became fully human, different genetic beings. I believe the evidence of that is that they realize that they are naked and the punishment to Eve dealing with reproduction. It was not that nakedness was evil, it was that they were no longer who they were before and they couldn't hide it from God.

I don't know what the "trees" actually were but I would suspect that the tree of knowledge was not a device normally harmful to God or his spiritual residents. It could very well have been the portal to our realm but when used on Adam and Eve which were part human and part spirit it had very damaging effects - namely the stripping off of their spiritual genetics and resulting expulsion from Eden being unable to reopen the portal and return. Hence the warning.

Cast in to our realm with very different physics it would have been like being reborn and having to learn everything new. The punishment therefore was all their own doing by not heeding the warnings of God.

Think "angels cast out of Heaven" and in the Roman Pantheon the lesser gods being cast from Mount Olympus. The river Styx, on and on. The portal between realms. I think its why we have souls - the ever so small part of us still connected to the other realm but not large enough for us to return on our own. We have to have an intercessor to bring us through. They on the other hand, being 100% spiritual, can travel back and forth at will.

I don't think "spirit" describes the reality of the situation but its our word for them so I used it.

The story of Adam and Eve is a metaphor for the consequences of free will and therefore choice.

The serpent has held a place of esteem in many cultures separated by time and space. It's almost as if Adam and Eve had respect for the creature. Could this also be a warning of the Appeal to Authority logical fallacy?

Forbidden fruit and ego. Is there a connection?

No!

Ego.... it's not a dirty word.

youtu.be...

Mickierocksman

This surely is crazy for today's beliefs. I just realized that we live in a satanic world, or by indian religions - Mayan world. Listen. Satan, or Maya means illusion or duality wich is opposite of heaven (God), wich means unity. This 'duality' and 'unity' is in fact subjective reality and objective reality. Ever since we "ate" the "forbiden fruit" (received a knowledge of good and evil) we started to feel the need to cover ouselves. In other words ever since we left the "garden of eden", we expirience subjective reality, wich is dualism wich means satanism. We live in 'illusion' because we do not experience the environment itself but rather a projection of it, created by us - because we live in a subjective reality (Maya or Satan).

Originally posted by Mickierocksman

No!

Ego.... it's not a dirty word.

youtu.be...

Mickierocksman

I don't reckon anyone saying that ego is bad. However feeling shame, wich is part of ego, is bad I guess. Originally I was asking myself what if we remove ego, could we return to garden of eden? Now it seems, that's just the way it is. It is our history.

reply to post by Fichorka


Strange that this topic came up, I just talked about this with my husband 2 nights ago.

Now I am a Methodist. So for some reason Methodist don't focus on evil, devil or satan too much. They focus on positive uplifting praise to God. No fire and brimstone stuff. Sort of runs with the whole concept of you attract what you focus on. I sometimes think that's why Catholics are so good at exorcisms because they deal with it more. Well you would need to be good at handling demons if you focus on them too much.... I digress that's another thread.

So I'm sure people are going to think this sounds strange but what ever. This is what I experienced, and all of us experience different things so....

I can't explain some parts because it will violate T&C
In the last 10 months I've experienced these bizarre trance states and this last one was about this.
My husband says he feels it too but not as intense.
The first one I felt God.
The 2nd I experienced what it felt like at creation.
Another was being in another "place" and it was beautiful.
Most of the time we both just feel our energy cycling, flowing but also cleansing at the same time.
We both describe it the same way too. Like a twisted figure 8 - infinity

So back to 2 nights ago. It was like experiencing what they (Adam & Eve) felt, like before they ate the fruit. Think like a child. Untainted unpolluted. I had said afterward "They weren't supposed to feel ashamed"
It seemed like God just wanted them to just "be".

There is more but I have to think about explaining it without breaking the rules.

reply to post by obnoxiouschick


God is nothing but he twists around and as he does so this happens 0 into 8. If God were not ashamed he would not be 'self' conscious.
The 8 is not permanent it fluctuates between the 0 and the 8, when you sleep the 'self' disappears.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


Well actually yes 0 is part of it.
We get to a state of zero first then the zero shifts to infinity.
I described it as an 8 but that's 2 dimensional I say twisted because you have to think of it as 3 dimensional like a roller coaster in a loop in that shape. (I hope that makes sense)

The state of zero concept pertains to Ho'oponopono.(www.idreamcatcher.com...)

When you returning back to your most inner nature – to Zero – everything becomes available to you effortlessly and you are being driven by inspiration from Divinity, not by petty ego wants.

So there is this music that we listen to that aligns you to zero. We listen to that first.

you just edited what u put.....I should've quoted you

Originally posted by Fichorka

Originally posted by abeverage
Ok I get your line of reasoning. However I do not wish to simply be a created automaton, in that what exactly were we before "The Fall"?

The Ego may keep me from being controlled or manipulated to remove it might be like a mental slavery.

I thought about that too. - What's it like without ego or subjectivity - not being able to expirience and have no free will, because everything is good and everything is the same because everything is objective.
Sounds like a prison, perhaps?

edit on 11/10/2012 by Fichorka because: (no reason given)

I would think so...

Originally posted by Fichorka
I am curious, like most of you. I wonder if this "ego" could be removed.
Could we remove ego from our brain, to reverse the effect of the "forbidden fruit"?
There are certain parts of the brain wich are responsible for making us feel a shame.

Try not "feeding" the ego.

It gets in the way. All bloated with pride it can be destructive.

reply to post by ararisq


Wow that was interesting!