Secret SEALs Training Bin Laden Mock-Up facility revealed

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posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 02:36 PM
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Originally posted by TheAngryFarm
reply to post by Rubic0n
 


I dont know, and I dont claim to know. I can only speculate as to why and the chief reason I believe would be to avoid pissing off more retarded muslims who cry, riot, and murder every time the wind changes direction


Lets detail that.

So the U.S sends out a secret seal team into Pakistan without the Pakistani's permission ,they assassinate a few people on their soil AND take the body of their prime target with them and out of the country , televise the announcement that they did so including dumping the shrouded body into the ocean.

But then they refuse to release and show any of said evidence to confirm that it really was bin laden that they got because they are afraid that they might get angry about that.

Then you say:


I rely on common sense







I've answered a few of your questions, how about you answer a single one of mine:

Where is your evidence to the contrary?
edit on 15-11-2012 by TheAngryFarm because: (no reason given)


My evidence to the contrary is already expressed in this very thread.

The evidence given that they did in fact killed bin laden are nothing more then claims and hold no more worth then the evidence that points out that it was or cannot have been bin laden. In fact, ironically enough, the "evidence" provided following the official report about Bin laden's assassination or actually the lack thereof adds to the credibility that there was no more bin laden to assassinate in the first place.


edit on 15-11-2012 by Rubic0n because: (no reason given)




posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 02:49 PM
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reply to post by darpa999
 


There will never be proof for eather side of this argument. Its proven something happened in that compound on that night, but no way with out the body to prove it was a mission to kill osama. Some may argue the controversy with the book by the SEAL. Well it could be possible that was a stratigic move to help support the story. Idk.
I for one think hes most likly been dead, that was eather the killing of someone else or some drug run for all i know. The cia crashed a plane full of coke back when, maybe the seals crashed a choper full of opium. I wasnt there, i cant say.
I do know osama way pretty sick awhile ago, i also know he wasnt that high on any priority list as well as the fact that the pics of everyone watchin the raid were faked.



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 02:52 PM
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reply to post by OratoryHeist
 





And your irrefutable proof of this is from where?


I can never have irrefutable proof of anything; I don’t even have irrefutable truth that you or I for that matter exist. One can only determine truth with knowledge and a little bit of trust. So what is my “proof”, what is that makes me “know” that Bin Laden died during Operation Neptune Spear, let me tell you.

I know Bin Laden died that day because

• The President of the United States said so

• Al-Qa’ida confirmed that Bin Laden had been killed

• The media at the time all reported that he had been killed

• Every world leader to my knowledge has now accepted that Bin Laden died that day

• I have read all 3 of the main books on Operation Neptune spear that all state Bin laden died and how he died in quite some detail (I highly recommend reading Peter Bergan)

• The Twitter feeds form people in Abbottabad

• Press coverage at the time of the operation and in his immediate aftermath

• Testimony from his family, who all say he is dead

• Pakistan’s response to his death

• The Stealth helicopter that turned up in Abbottabad

• The fact that to date nobody of any significance directly involved in that operation has ever said anything to substantiate any claims that it did not happen.

• The fact that if Bin Laden was still alive he would quite easy become the biggest lie in American history that no president would ever want as a legacy.

• Press coverage after the incident, in particular that form the Wall Street Journal and the Guardian

• Events after the operation such as, the conviction of the Doctor who was a CIA asset, the accounts from Pakistan about finding his children at the scene and wounded persons.

• There was no substantiated proof that he died before may 1st 2011 that has been confirmed, only speculation.

Now yes a photo would probably make my conviction that Bin Laden is dead even stronger, but with that mightily weight of evidence I don’t feel like I really need one.

Now please stop with your stupid insults I am not interested, how about you actually try to debate this with me. I have shown you a list of the proof that I have that Bin Laden is dead, how about you tell me now what evidence you have that he was not killed that day.
edit on 15-11-2012 by OtherSideOfTheCoin because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 02:52 PM
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reply to post by darpa999
 


There will never be proof for eather side of this argument. Its proven something happened in that compound on that night, but no way with out the body to prove it was a mission to kill osama. Some may argue the controversy with the book by the SEAL. Well it could be possible that was a stratigic move to help support the story. Idk.
I for one think hes most likly been dead, that was eather the killing of someone else or some drug run for all i know. The cia crashed a plane full of coke back when, maybe the seals crashed a choper full of opium. I wasnt there, i cant say.
I do know osama way pretty sick awhile ago, i also know he wasnt that high on any priority list as well as the fact that the pics of everyone watchin the raid were faked.



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 03:07 PM
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On the issue of “no photo!”

All conspiracy theorists or at least the majority of them look at this story as part of a wider picture, they believe that Bin Laden in the first place was either an illusion or a CIA stooge. This fits in with 9/11 false flag stuff and that fits in with “they” (government, NWO, Aliens or whoever) wanting to control you and I. to admit that Bin laden died that day casts this religious fantasy into doubt.

So he died may last year but there is no photo so the conspiracy say “no photo, no bin laden, no raid, he didn’t die that day” despite all the evidence because that drastically contradicts their world believe. If there was a photo that would have been photoshoped, they would as for a body tissue sample for dating, that would be a fake sample, they would want to see the body, that would be a double. And so on and so on.
Conspiracy theorists will never believe and find a problem with all evidence because it shows that they are wrong for them to be wrong is like a priest to discover God is not real and become an atheist.



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 03:59 PM
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Originally posted by OtherSideOfTheCoin
reply to post by OratoryHeist
 





And your irrefutable proof of this is from where?


I can never have irrefutable proof of anything; I don’t even have irrefutable truth that you or I for that matter exist. One can only determine truth with knowledge and a little bit of trust. So what is my “proof”, what is that makes me “know” that Bin Laden died during Operation Neptune Spear, let me tell you.

I know Bin Laden died that day because

• The President of the United States said so


President bush also told you that there were weapons of mass destruction in iraq.
Obama also told you that he would bring all soldiers home from there, 6 months later he sent 30.000 extra.

Your reasoning ,,,"because he said so" is of no worth.



• Al-Qa’ida confirmed that Bin Laden had been killed


www.msnbc.msn.com...


The Internet statement, the first by the terror network since its leader was slain in a U.S. commando raid against his Pakistani hideout, was apparently designed to convince followers that it will remain vigorous and intact even after its founder's demise.
"The blood of the holy warrior sheik, Osama bin Laden, God bless him, is too precious to us and to all Muslims to go in vain," the statement said. "We will remain, God willing, a curse chasing the Americans and their agents, following them outside and inside their countries."
"Soon, God willing, their happiness will turn to sadness," it said, "their blood will be mingled with their tears."



So a post on the internet convinced you.


Who posted it then :
What is Al qaeda:



en.wikipedia.org...

Former British Foreign Secretary Robin Cook wrote that the word al-Qaeda should be translated as "the database", and originally referred to the computer file of the thousands of mujahideen militants who were recruited and trained with CIA help to defeat the Russians



www.globalresearch.ca...


Shortly before his untimely death, former British Foreign Secretary Robin Cook told the House of Commons that “Al Qaeda” is not really a terrorist group but a database of international mujaheddin and arms smugglers used by the CIA and Saudis to funnel guerrillas, arms, and money into Soviet-occupied Afghanistan. Courtesy of World Affairs, a journal based in New Delhi, WMR can bring you an important excerpt from an Apr.-Jun. 2004 article by Pierre-Henry Bunel, a former agent for French military intelligence.




the database was divided into two parts, the information file where the participants in the meetings could pick up and send information they needed, and the decision file where the decisions made during the previous sessions were recorded and stored. In Arabic, the files were called, ‘Q eidat il-Maaloomaat’ and ‘Q eidat i-Taaleemaat.’ Those two files were kept in one file called in Arabic ‘Q eidat ilmu’ti’aat’ which is the exact translation of the English word database. But the Arabs commonly used the short word Al Qaida which is the Arabic word for “base.” The military air base of Riyadh, Saudi Arabia is called ‘q eidat ‘riyadh al ‘askariya.’ Q eida means “a base” and “Al Qaida” means “the base.”




“Because of the presence of ‘rogue states,’ it became easy for terrorist groups to use the email of the database. Hence, the email of Al Qaida was used, with some interface system, providing secrecy, for the families of the mujaheddin to keep links with their children undergoing training in Afghanistan, or in Libya or in the Beqaa valley, Lebanon. Or in action anywhere in the battlefields where the extremists sponsored by all the ‘rogue states’ used to fight. And the ‘rogue states’ included Saudi Arabia. When Osama bin Laden was an American agent in Afghanistan, the Al Qaida Intranet was a good communication system through coded or covert messages.

Meet “Al Qaeda”


-Al qaeda- CIA program
-Osama, CIA asset from day one-

Fake videos of bin laden have been used already, what is so trustworthy here?



“The truth is, there is no Islamic army or terrorist group called Al Qaida. And any informed intelligence officer knows this. But there is a propaganda campaign to make the public believe in the presence of an identified entity representing the ‘devil’ only in order to drive the ‘TV watcher’ to accept a unified international leadership for a war against terrorism. The country behind this propaganda is the US and the lobbyists for the US war on terrorism are only interested in making money.”


Believing what you believe appears not to require reasoning but pure faith on what you have been told.



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 03:59 PM
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• The media at the time all reported that he had been killed


Again you bring the "because he said so" argument to the table.
As the first time you did this: worth , nothing.








^ That is the media which you trust and use as "evidence".





• Every world leader to my knowledge has now accepted that


Care to clarify ,including its worth ?


Reading all that you wrote ,you seem to be letting a lot of other people do your thinking for you without the need for them to bring anything conclusive in any way to the table.


edit on 15-11-2012 by Rubic0n because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 04:29 PM
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reply to post by Rubic0n
 


You have not even addressed half of the points I raised and the ones you did tackle you didn’t do very well.

You are guilty of the classical conspiracy theorists deflection an inability to stay on topic. Take your first point for example, what on earth does the absence of WMD in Iraq have to do with the death of Bin Laden. The two are not related all you have done is tell me that presidents can lie, I know that, you need to look at all the evidence that’s what I have tried to do. If all I had was “because Obama told me so” then yes I would be open to all kinds of problems but when the evidence backs up his claims then I can be more confident in what he had to say of being the truth.

The “so the internet convinced you” comment, again we have multiple sources all saying Al-Qa’ida confirm Bin Laden’s death yet to argue against this all you have to say is nothing, you have nothing to say otherwise. That’s not an argument, that’s just an observation, so yes the internet told me, what of it?

Once again what you are saying about Robin Cook, that has nothing to do with what we are talking about. I can tell you that what Cook said was utter rubbish but to explain this to you would require me writing quite a lengthy post that has nothing to do with operation Neptune Spear. Its totally of topic and does nothing to negate any of the 15 or so points I raised above its just an attempt at deflection. Same with all those video’s you showed me, what do they have to do with the killing of Bin Laden all they do is deflect form the debate at hand.

Also I don’t know what you need me to clarify, what I am saying is that to my knowledge there has yet to be a single world leader who has said Bin Laden did not die that day.

Please stop with this “you can’t think for yourself” mentality you have of me. My posts hear speak for themselves it is because I think for myself that I know Bin Laden died that day. I find it really quite insulting to my intelligence when you post baseless comments like that. Now when you respond to this this post, keep it on topic I don’t want you posting a video about how Al-Qa’ida was created by the CIA, we can debate that another time. What I want is proof form you that Bin Laden did not die during operation Neptune Spear, if you can’t find it just admit to it, and if your wrong about the whole thing then admit to that as well or if you are incapable of a grown up debate just move on.



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 04:43 PM
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reply to post by Rubic0n
 


PS: sorry if I am coming across as harsh when it comes to your shortcomings in debating with me, I did not notice you were a new member please don’t take it personally I just don’t have much tolerance for people who respond in the way you did. I am sure you will get the hang of it soon.



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 05:45 PM
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Originally posted by OtherSideOfTheCoin
reply to post by Rubic0n
 



You are guilty of the classical conspiracy theorists deflection an inability to stay on topic. Take your first point for example, what on earth does the absence of WMD in Iraq have to do with the death of Bin Laden.


Quite obviously to anyone it showed you that the president can lie, i do not see how you missed that.



The two are not related all you have done is tell me that presidents can lie,
Owh , so you did get it ? Then why are you complaining that it is of-topic?

-You bring forth the fact that the president told you so

I already argued that that it still does not constitute as evidence ,we all know this and so i show you that the president does lie and has done so before to which you agree, yet ..

-You complain that it is of-topic

How is a lying president of-topic when you claim that his word is proof of anything ?
You do not make much sense really.




you need to look at all the evidence that’s what I have tried to do.


You did not bring forth any evidence other then the media and the president telling you what you should believe. There is no evidence to look at remember which was the whole point in the first place and which is why you can only come up with quotes from "people" 'hearsay' in other words.


If all I had was “because Obama told me so” then yes I would be open to all kinds of problems


You are.




but when the evidence backs up his claims then I can be more confident in what he had to say of being the truth.


So when do you expect to be able to be so confident in what he said considering that all actual evidence has been held back from the public?


The “so the internet convinced you” comment, again we have multiple sources all saying Al-Qa’ida confirm Bin Laden’s death yet to argue against this all you have to say is nothing, you have nothing to say otherwise. That’s not an argument, that’s just an observation, so yes the internet told me, what of it?


Ehm i actually said enough about that right after that comment,there are a few hundred words right after that dedicated to it. Are you really that insecure that it made you say this ? quite laughable really as anyone reading this can see it.



Once again what you are saying about Robin Cook, that has nothing to do with what we are talking about.


How does it not?

Robin cook or not he is not the only one ,It was a CIA project and it has never been a secret. It is very relevant to the topic and what has been purported as "evidence". The fact that you cannot recognize this is "interesting" to put it mildly.



I can tell you that what Cook said was utter rubbish


If you say so , then it must be true..



Its totally of topic and does nothing to negate any of the 15 or so points I raised above its just an attempt at deflection.


Your 15 points are a prime example of how quality rules over quantity. Your points that you called "evidence (god knows why) keel over when a flee sneezes.


Same with all those video’s you showed me, what do they have to do with the killing of Bin Laden all they do is deflect form the debate at hand.


Im sorry , i really really am but i have to ask it. Are you truly this dense or are you just pretending in a poor effort to deflect all this.

Well in case you really are this dense:

-you claimed that the media told you that it was a true story , you even listed it as evidence in your weak list of points.

(i cant believe i am explaining this) Those videos are just a few of faked war reports recorded and acted out in front of cameras in studios (mainly) and aired and sold to the public as genuine.

And thus shows you how your apparent trust in said media is unjustified.

now please....since it was a direct and very relevant response to your post , tell me again how that was off topic



I make direct and relevant responses to you while all you do is unjustifiably cry about deflecting and being of-topic somehow



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 05:46 PM
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Also I don’t know what you need me to clarify, what I am saying is that to my knowledge there has yet to be a single world leader who has said Bin Laden did not die that day.


That is quite a different tune you are singing there. At first you claimed that all big leaders in the world supported the claim of bin laden being killed that day.

Now you retort is that how not one has said anything against it. There is quite bit of difference in that in case you are not aware.

(talk about deflection)



Please stop with this “you can’t think for yourself” mentality you have of me. My posts hear speak for themselves it is because I think for myself that I know Bin Laden died that day.



Sorry, but you are the one claiming evidence because the president and the MSM told you so which just so happen to go straight against what you just try to claim.



I find it really quite insulting to my intelligence when you post baseless comments like that.



Your own comments are already doing a pretty fine job at that.



Now when you respond to this this post, keep it on topic I don’t want you posting a video about how Al-Qa’ida was created by the CIA


Of course you don't.

And the fact that you are unable to recognize the relevance of that after you used a statement from that same Al quada once again shows how much you understand of the concept of "relevance".

You also are incapable of dictating what i bring to the table whether you agree with it or not. If you don't like it you know how to get out.



What I want is proof form you that Bin Laden did not die during operation Neptune Spear, if you can’t find it just admit to it, and if your wrong about the whole thing then admit to that as well or if you are incapable of a grown up debate just move on.



Sure , as soon as you provide actual evidence that he did die that day ok ? Deal!

Do you consider your style of debate grown up? all i see coming from you is accusations of deflection repeated ad nauseum. I fail to recognize a adult behind your responses.




edit on 15-11-2012 by Rubic0n because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 05:54 PM
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Originally posted by OtherSideOfTheCoin
reply to post by Rubic0n
 


PS: sorry if I am coming across as harsh when it comes to your shortcomings in debating with me,


^Thanks for the laugh.



posted on Nov, 16 2012 @ 06:11 AM
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Originally posted by OtherSideOfTheCoin
reply to post by OratoryHeist
 


I can never have irrefutable proof of anything; I don’t even have irrefutable truth that you or I for that matter exist. One can only determine truth with knowledge and a little bit of trust. So what is my “proof”, what is that makes me “know” that Bin Laden died during Operation Neptune Spear, let me tell you.

Truth is what you personally experience, what others say is just hearsay. Always believe what you personally experience, always question what others say.

Due to the list you gave, you are giving out a lot more than just 'a little bit of trust'.



I know Bin Laden died that day because

• The President of the United States said so

...who says what ever is written on an autocue.



• Al-Qa’ida confirmed that Bin Laden had been killed

...who may well be controlled/influenced by CIA/Mossad.



• The media at the time all reported that he had been killed

...and who was their primary source for that information? Right, the Whitehouse. Who would never lie.



• Every world leader to my knowledge has now accepted that Bin Laden died that day

How many is that? Care to list them all, with quotes and sources?



• I have read all 3 of the main books on Operation Neptune spear that all state Bin laden died and how he died in quite some detail (I highly recommend reading Peter Bergan)

Helping to promote the propoganda. Three books, because one is not enough.



• The Twitter feeds form people in Abbottabad

...and Twitter feeds cannot be faked?



• Press coverage at the time of the operation and in his immediate aftermath

..You have already mentioned the press. You must be taking a leaf out of politicians books, repeat it enough times and people will begin to believe it. Brainwashing 101.



• Testimony from his family, who all say he is dead

Have you seen their bank statements?



• Pakistan’s response to his death

:



• The Stealth helicopter that turned up in Abbottabad

Geniuine heli, or prop? I don't recall seeing any scorch marks from its destruction.



• The fact that to date nobody of any significance directly involved in that operation has ever said anything to substantiate any claims that it did not happen.

Money. Threats. Knowledge of the real Truth. These can all stop people talking.



• The fact that if Bin Laden was still alive he would quite easy become the biggest lie in American history that no president would ever want as a legacy.

I dont think anyone doubts the character creation known as Bin Laden is now dead.

Interesting, no president would ever want as a legacy huh? Isn't that reason wnough to lie. Ofcourse I mentioned this in my previous post, about politicians, appears you chose to ignore me, again.




• Press coverage after the incident, in particular that form the Wall Street Journal and the Guardian

Press coverage AGAIN? This is the third time in the same post!
Brainwashing 102 this time?



• Events after the operation such as, the conviction of the Doctor who was a CIA asset, the accounts from Pakistan about finding his children at the scene and wounded persons.

Could he be an actor?



• There was no substantiated proof that he died before may 1st 2011 that has been confirmed, only speculation.

Everything you have outlined above IS speculation. The difference being is it has been repeated by various 'sources', that my friend does not make it true. If anything, it just makes those who believe it quite gullible and non-questioning of the people they should be questioning.



Now yes a photo would probably make my conviction that Bin Laden is dead even stronger, but with that mightily weight of evidence I don’t feel like I really need one.

Again, what evidence, nothing you have provided is proof. It is all just speculation. If something is being repeated many time, to get people to believe it, then you know there is something wrong. Well, some people know there is something wrong.



Now please stop with your stupid insults I am not interested, how about you actually try to debate this with me.

I've not insulted you, if you read it that way, then that is your problem. I'm trying to debate, but you have ignored a large part of what I said in the previous post.

In a previous thread, you claimed you realised you were 'idiotic' for your past beliefs. Thereby insinuating people who currently oppose your current view are idiotic. Maybe you should pay attention to what you write, before you go accusing other people of insulting you.




posted on Nov, 16 2012 @ 06:58 AM
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reply to post by OratoryHeist
 


So according to you Bin Laden didn’t die that day and the President lied about it because the CIA/Mossad are controlling or influencing Al-Qa’ida, the twitter feeds where faked and the helicopter was just a prop as for the doctor he was an actor and everything in the media has been propaganda including the books written on the subject which were also propaganda. To cover all of this up “they” paid off and made threats against everyone involved who are all lying including Bin Laden’s family, government of the world and the entire world media. I want some proof anything atoll just something that backs up your claims otherwise they are just your delusions.

If the only reason you don’t believe that Bin Laden died that day is the absence of a photo, that’s fine just say so. But don’t start dictating to me that he didn’t die that day without some other kind proof. I have given you numerous points of evidence that lead me to believe that Bin Laden died that day that you can go and check out for yourself unless you can give me some proof that he didn’t then please stop with your conspiracy theorist conjecture and speculation as it proves nothing.

At this junction in the debate it is your turn to show me your proof that Bin Laden did not die that day.



posted on Nov, 16 2012 @ 09:38 AM
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Originally posted by OtherSideOfTheCoin
reply to post by OratoryHeist
 


So according to you Bin Laden didn’t die that day and the President lied about it because the CIA/Mossad are controlling or influencing Al-Qa’ida, the twitter feeds where faked and the helicopter was just a prop as for the doctor he was an actor and everything in the media has been propaganda including the books written on the subject which were also propaganda. To cover all of this up “they” paid off and made threats against everyone involved who are all lying including Bin Laden’s family, government of the world and the entire world media. I want some proof anything atoll just something that backs up your claims otherwise they are just your delusions.

No. Why do you guys always do this? It's always all or nothing.

I was simply throwing possibilities out there, things that could also be true. I've not said all those are true, I've simply stated them as possibilities, some might be true, some may not, all may be true, all may not. They are things to consider, to ponder, to contemplate, to get the grey matter turning.

You are fine to let other people do your thinking for you, you are fine to let other people tell you what to think. I'm not.



If the only reason you don’t believe that Bin Laden died that day is the absence of a photo, that’s fine just say so.

Photos can easily be faked, as can video. You havent been paying attention to a word I have said.

Did a mission to kill someone happen that day? Possibly.
Can we say for sure a mission to kill someone happened that day? No.
Can we say for sure Bin Laden died that day? No.

Just because someone says something is true does NOT make it true. So quit being condecending to myself and other on here and stop trying to spoon feed with the propoganda you have been brainwashed with.



But don’t start dictating to me that he didn’t die that day without some other kind proof. I have given you numerous points of evidence that lead me to believe that Bin Laden died that day that you can go and check out for yourself unless you can give me some proof that he didn’t then please stop with your conspiracy theorist conjecture and speculation as it proves nothing.

Who is dictating? Re-read what you just wrote and see who is dictating.

If the honesty of those with a political agenda is being questioned, how can you use their words as evidence?



At this junction in the debate it is your turn to show me your proof that Bin Laden did not die that day.

You have not given any proof that your 'evidence' is valid. What you have provided is not evidence, it is just as much speculation and conjecture as what the conpiracy theorists put forward.

As an example, let us say that i post a list of people who have claimed Bin Laden didnt die that day, there was no mission, it was all faked up, etc etc. Is that evidence? It is as much evidence as what you have provided.

The questions you need to be asking, is why after 11 years are people still banging on about it, doubting the official story. Why are you so willing to blinding believe what a government claims, or the media says? Why are you so willing to believe people who have a political agenda and doubt those without an agenda?

As I have kept saying, just because someone says something, does not make it true.

For someone who claims to have once been a believer in 9/11 being a sham, I find it incredibly difficult to follow you arguing for it being a genuine terrorist event.

Dude you have no integrity as far as I am concerned. Ignoring what people are saying. Tragic.



posted on Nov, 17 2012 @ 08:50 AM
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reply to post by OratoryHeist
 





Can we say for sure a mission to kill someone happened that day? No


On this point, I agree with you

BUT!

If your logic is you can never be 100% sure that Operation Neptune Spear actually took place then as I said, I agree with you, we can never be 100% on anything there are always the “what ifs…” On saying that however when I look at the sum of the evidence ( as in when we take multiple sources all corroborating each other) that I presented to you as my reasons for why I know or I believe if you prefer that it did take place that day I can be between 90-95% certain that it did take place. We are always going to have that small chance that the entire thing was a cover up but the odds of that being true in the face of the evidence available to say it did happen is so small I don’t give such claims any credibility.

If we take your argument which is essentially that I can never be 100% certain that it did happen because I was not there to personally whiteness it then I could apply that to other events to demonstrate to you the inherent flaw in the argument. For example, how do I know the earth is round, what’s to say that everyone is lying about it and it’s not flat? I can’t be 100% certain that the earth is round because I have personally not observed it as being round. However when I look at the sum of the evidence and with a little bit of trust I can say with 99.999% that it is round. The only way I will ever know for 100% is if I go into space and see it for myself.. I could apply this to loads, I don’t know 100% Obama is POTUS, I don’t for certain that the sun is not some kind of hologram, I don’t know for definite that the queen in still alive or that there is oxygen in the air, hell I don’t even know for sure if you or I is real. The same applies to Operation Neptune Spear, I can only know for 100% certainty that it took place if I was a member of Seal Team Six and took part in the operation and even then there could be room for doubt. That is the problem with your argument.

To argue that it did not happen therefore you cannot simply say “you weren’t there so you don’t know” which is what your argument all comes down to. Really what you need to do if you are going to really start a debate on this is say to me “this operation never took place…. Here is some evidence”. So far the group of people saying that this never took part have yet to provide any substance to their claims other than pointing out that there is no photo then citing a number of other possibilities that resulted in Bin Laden’s death or as you like to argue, “unless you were there you can’t know for absolute certainty”. Now that in the face of the reasons that I believe the operation did take place is not enough to weakling my views or even question them.



posted on Nov, 17 2012 @ 05:46 PM
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reply to post by Rubic0n
 


Ahh, the old CNN footage. You simply believe the 'so-called hoax' simply because someone put up a YT video and suggested 'fake studio set' 'fake palm trees', 'blue screen' etc?. Did you ever consider that hundreds of journalists from all over the world were stationed at the JIB.Dhahran International Hotel? Do you not find it strange that not one of these journalists has come forward and stated that they never saw Charles Jaco during the start of the conflict? Not one journalist even from a rival news outlet?

The reality is that media platforms where built at the Dhahran International Hotel next to the airbase and at the time international airport

Dhahran International Hotel Map Link

See following thread.

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Nov, 18 2012 @ 12:27 PM
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Based upon what happened to previous international public enemy's I don't believe that they did kill Bin Laden when they said they did as it goes against how the 'supreme nations' handled situations in the past.

When they Killed Saddam Hussain's offspring we saw their dead, bloodied and beaten bodies in the newspapers the next day. We even had video of Saddam's hanging appearing on youtube. Prior to that they always used to make huge public displays of the deaths of their enemies, including the nuremberg trials.

IF: they did capture or kill Bin Laden when they said they did... We would have seen his dead body as it makes no sense that we have not. They would not have changed their modus operandi for someone so high profile.
edit on 18-11-2012 by Loopdaloop because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 19 2012 @ 04:58 AM
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Originally posted by OtherSideOfTheCoin
We are always going to have that small chance that the entire thing was a cover up but the odds of that being true in the face of the evidence available to say it did happen is so small I don’t give such claims any credibility.

The problem with your evidence, is that it mainly comes from one source, the Whitehouse, which is understandable, considering it was supposedly a US special forces op. You did cite twitter as a source of evidence, but can you be certain that people in the remote hills of Pakistan have internet access? Think about that one.



I can’t be 100% certain that the earth is round because I have personally not observed it as being round. However when I look at the sum of the evidence and with a little bit of trust I can say with 99.999% that it is round.

Or, you can do the math. You can do the experiements that have proved the earth is round. They are simple experiments involving shadows. So you don't need to take other people's word for it.



The same applies to Operation Neptune Spear, I can only know for 100% certainty that it took place if I was a member of Seal Team Six and took part in the operation and even then there could be room for doubt.

Then you should be accepting the possibility that the whole war on terror is a sham, rather than trying to convince people it is a truth. To say you BELIEVE its a true event, but you accept the possibility it could be FAKE would be a more objective path. It may also win you more allies if you take that approach. Before you say that is your view, its not, you have shown it's not by not listening/reading other peoples views.


That is the problem with your argument.

Believing what you experience and questioning everything else is not a problem, unless you are not real good at using your brain.



To argue that it did not happen therefore you cannot simply say “you weren’t there so you don’t know” which is what your argument all comes down to.

My argument is that you cannot say something is true, just because someone has said many times it is true. Which is what you are doing. You are not looking at things in an objective manner. You even said yourself you cannot be 100% certain the Op took place because you were not there, so with that in mind, you should not be saying for certain it did take place.



Really what you need to do if you are going to really start a debate on this is say to me “this operation never took place…. Here is some evidence”.

Lets say I wanted to take that view. What would be 'evidence' in your opinion?
You have cited media reports, multiple times.
You have cited Obama saying it is so.
You have cited twitter feeds.
You have cited helicopter wreckage.

But as 'evidence', that's just not conclusive at all.



So far the group of people saying that this never took part have yet to provide any substance to their claims other than pointing out that there is no photo then citing a number of other possibilities that resulted in Bin Laden’s death or as you like to argue, “unless you were there you can’t know for absolute certainty”. Now that in the face of the reasons that I believe the operation did take place is not enough to weakling my views or even question them.

I dont believe the group is stating the op didnt take place, some might be, but some are also stating Bin Laden was not killed that day. There is a clear difference, are you deliberately trying to change your argument, hoping no one notices?




posted on Nov, 19 2012 @ 05:28 AM
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reply to post by indy0725
 


It appeared to me that the photos of the helicopter were faked.
I saw a few different "versions" of it.

The "tweets"? LoL I don't suppose it struck you as kind of odd they were written in English.
Oh, nevermind.





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