Tecumseh

reply to post by frazzle


Interesting modern perspective - one that is not that hard to graps when looking at the current situation of our most-drugged up culture.

CJ

Originally posted by ColoradoJens
reply to post by frazzle

 

Interesting modern perspective - one that is not that hard to graps when looking at the current situation of our most-drugged up culture.

CJ

And our current situation of gobbling up more and more territory under the guise of national security has never abated. I posted the following quote in the Thomas Jefferson thread, but its well suited to this conversation, as well, considering Jefferson's Indian policies.

Jefferson considered expansion essential to perpetuating republican virtues in the “empire of liberty” he envisioned overspreading both North and South America with like-minded countrymen. He argued that expansion would neutralize or remove dangerous neighbors and provide a continuing supply of land to accommodate a growing population of American yeomen farmers. Accordingly, after the Louisiana Purchase doubled U.S. territory he insisted that “national security” demanded wresting West Florida from Spain as well.

Albert K. Weinberg, whose densely detailed Manifest Destiny: A Study of Nationalist Expansionism in American History (1935) remains an indispensable chronicle of U.S. imperialism, noted, “Despite the doubling of America’s territorial domain, the accession of Louisiana was not followed by a subsidence of expansionism.” On the contrary, Americans continued to regard the nation’s natural boundary “to be far in advance of the boundary that they already had.” “Appetite had grown with the eating.”

monthlyreview.org...

Expansion is still the overriding principle of both political parties and they kindly "allow" us to vote on one form of expansion or the other, but always resulting in dead bodies and ruined cultures.

Originally posted by ColoradoJens

Originally posted by Logarock

Originally posted by palg1
Tecumseh, a true Canadian hero if there ever was one. We haven't forgotten his contributions to keeping us free during the war of 1812.

Yea thats right. The americans were to busy protecting their frountire from bands of tecumsehs killers and others burning and killing all along the zone. But hay it was tradition.....like durring the revolutionary war and the french war.

The Americans were busy breaking treaty after treaty that they initiated. They were busy stealing and plying the Indians for booze so they could trick them into bad deals, which even then was not enough. I suppose in your eyes the Indians deserved to be wiped out simply because.

CJ

Apparently the tribes didnt mind being tools for the english or french and doing their bidding. They involved themselves in the politics of the white man and took thier fortune therewith......as most tribes did with the algonquin federation before that. We are to suppose that tribes could take orders from an algonguin leader hundreds of miles away on issues of trible conflict, land grants ect and this would be ok. Even if the algonquins were only listened to because of the power they could bring down on the countryside, not becasue of race.

Many dont know that some tribes didnt like whites because they held whites as inferior.....oh they liked thier toys but beyond that forget about it.

Now this is not directly about Tecumseh, but is related to what he was trying to do.

The Story

Sioux Nation Races to Buy Back Sacred Lands Tribe trying to raise $9 million to buy sacred site in South Dakota's Black Hills

This summer, a parcel of pristine prairie in South Dakota's Black Hills was put up for sale. The site, called Pe' Sla by members of the Great Sioux Nation, is sacred to the tribe and plays a key role in their creation story. The owners—whose family has controlled the property since 1876—have accepted a $9 million bid by tribal leaders, who are now racing to raise the money before the deadline next month.

To keep things in perspective, US spends billions of dollars PER WEEK on Afghanistan and Iraq, and they need to find money to get their land back !!!

Originally posted by Logarock

Originally posted by palg1
Tecumseh, a true Canadian hero if there ever was one. We haven't forgotten his contributions to keeping us free during the war of 1812.

Yea thats right. The americans were to busy protecting their frountire from bands of tecumsehs killers and others burning and killing all along the zone. But hay it was tradition.....like durring the revolutionary war and the french war.

The truth is that Tecumseh had cautionned his hot headed brother not to attack the outposts as this would disrupt the ongoing negotiations he was leading with your new country. His brother led drunken parties to raid agiant Tecumseh's orders. Tecumseh, as the leader took responsibility for the actions of those he trusted, and he suffered the consequences in their stead. Even though your generals were aware of this they used it as an excuse to rid the Ohio vallee and Michigan peninsula of the native tribes.

An old PBS documentary series

The Native Americans

Here is Part 1 "The Native Americans 1 The Far West, Generous Spirit"

Originally posted by palg1

Originally posted by Logarock

Originally posted by palg1
Tecumseh, a true Canadian hero if there ever was one. We haven't forgotten his contributions to keeping us free during the war of 1812.

Yea thats right. The americans were to busy protecting their frountire from bands of tecumsehs killers and others burning and killing all along the zone. But hay it was tradition.....like durring the revolutionary war and the french war.

The truth is that Tecumseh had cautionned his hot headed brother not to attack the outposts as this would disrupt the ongoing negotiations he was leading with your new country. His brother led drunken parties to raid agiant Tecumseh's orders. Tecumseh, as the leader took responsibility for the actions of those he trusted, and he suffered the consequences in their stead. Even though your generals were aware of this they used it as an excuse to rid the Ohio vallee and Michigan peninsula of the native tribes.

American generals didnt need excuses based on Tecumsehs actions or inactions here. There were other war chiefs in action. Once the war with the tribes began americans got the crap beat out of them by the confederation. Tecumseh was at the battle of fallen timbers and died and thats what he wanted whatever happened with the outpost and settlers.

Originally posted by tintin2012
An old PBS documentary series

The Native Americans

Here is Part 1 "The Native Americans 1 The Far West, Generous Spirit"

edit on 9/10/12 by masqua because: fixed vid

I had to walk away from the computer for a while after watching that video.

Here's another little historical fact regarding the "taming" of the great american west "for the people":

John Jacob Astor and Pacific Fur Company partners sign agreement in New York City on June 23, 1810.
HistoryLink.org Essay 9437 : Printer-Friendly Format

On June 23, 1810, Pacific Fur Company partners sign articles of agreement in New York City. This new enterprise aims to monopolize the American fur trade from coast to coast. The wealthy New York merchant John Jacob Astor (1763-1848) is president, prime mover, and principal stockholder of the fledgling organization, and he will soon dispatch two expeditions to found a transcontinental trading network headquartered on the Columbia River, "the first American commercial undertaking west of the mountains."

The Politics of Doing Business

While contemplating his ambitious idea, Astor proceeded with his hallmark attention to detail. Realizing the considerable risks that this new enterprise would face, he sought the protection of a corporation, successfully lobbying the New York legislature to grant a charter to his fledgling fur company in 1808.

There were political considerations as well, and Astor sought the blessing of President Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826), enumerating the advantages that would result from the success of his venture: the economic boost from the money he would spend on wages, transportation, and provisions; the capital investment in permanent trading posts across the continent; the goodwill among the Indian tribes that would endear them to the American administration. Historian James Ronda observes that Astor was "wrapping his private affairs in the cloak of national interest" and that he "wanted the Astorians to be seen as agents of the United States, not mere employees of a private firm" (Ronda, 52). With the boundary west of the Rockies a source of contention between the United States and Great Britain, President Jefferson was happy to encourage a reputable American businessman whose activities would strengthen the sovereign claims of the United States.
www.historylink.org...

I'm sure regular everyday americans made up the balance of the partners and stock holders involved in Astor's little enterprise. [/sarcasm]

reply to post by frazzle

New York merchant John Jacob Astor

Well frazzel that really nicely ties together with the thread about the "Great" Thomas Jefferson and the "great familiy" of the USA the Astors's. Just like the early morning fog the "Truth" comes into focus as to what it was truly all about, robbery and genocide.

I will come back again with this thought, the WORDS are the most important in observing things. Notice in frazzel's attached text the word "blessing". We all know that what the writer is describing here is "approval". However the word "blessing" gives the situation a sanctity which in NO WAY does it deserve as in the end people were going to die as a result of the action. For what? PROFIT

That is the power of words.

Originally posted by tintin2012
reply to post by frazzle

 

New York merchant John Jacob Astor

Well frazzel that really nicely ties together with the thread about the "Great" Thomas Jefferson and the "great familiy" of the USA the Astors's. Just like the early morning fog the "Truth" comes into focus as to what it was truly all about, robbery and genocide.

I will come back again with this thought, the WORDS are the most important in observing things. Notice in frazzel's attached text the word "blessing". We all know that what the writer is describing here is "approval". However the word "blessing" gives the situation a sanctity which in NO WAY does it deserve as in the end people were going to die as a result of the action. For what? PROFIT

That is the power of words.

You bet, and Astor's "wrapping his private affairs in the cloak of national interest" so "the Astorians would be seen as agents of the United States, not mere employees of a private firm" smacks of the intent a hundred years ago to mislead people into believing the federal reserve was "in the national interest" and not a private, for profit corporation, but an agency of the federal government. They're so good at wordsmithery that a lot of people still believe that canard despite all the proof to the contrary.

And then there's Jefferson's connection with Meriwether Lewis and Clark, which report was written by Nicholas Biddle, president of the 2nd US Bank and many claim much of the information was edited out and more added.

There's quite an inventory at the link below of the correspondence between Lewis and Jefferson before the expedition, including the text of Jefferson's January 18, 1803 secret message to Congress proposing a westward expedition, these papers include a February 28, 1803 letter to Casper Wistar discussing Meriwether Lewis as leader of the expedition and an April 27, 1803 letter to Lewis outlining instructions for the trip.

www.loc.gov...

(1814) The history of the expedition under captains Lewis and Clark, to the sources of the Missouri: thence across the Rocky mountains and down the river Columbia to the Pacific ocean; performed during the years 1804-5-6; by order of the government of the United States, volume 1. This version, available online in the First America West collection, includes both original page scans and transcriptions. Although this publication was prepared for the press by Paul Allen, it is believed that the text was written by Nicholas Biddle from Lewis and Clark's notes.

www.nps.gov...
excerpts from the journals of Lewis and Clark and their men present a picture of the Shawnee and Delaware people as the Anglo-Americans saw them. The modern reader must be careful to understand that what these white men saw and recorded was not necessarily correct from the Indian perspective. At the time of Lewis and Clark, the Shawnee had been driven from their homelands in what is today Ohio, Tennessee and Kentucky by the whites, and had moved across Illinois to take refuge in what was then Spanish Upper Louisiana, today's State of Missouri.

There are no coincidences.

reply to post by frazzle

I just love that term

wordsmithery

Yes, once again we return to that not so federal Federal Reserve. The bankers across the Atlantic wanted a cut and this was the way to do it. The Indians were to lose their lands and the Settlers (in the broad sense) eventually what they thought was their Freedom and Property. It was a gradual process but the US Debt shows that it was a complete success.

Total Public Debt Outstanding

10/09/2012 $ 16,167,932,295,919.57

Trillions

I wander what Tecumseh would have said if he was to be here today.

PS: For those who might not go any further than this post here is a snipett from Wiki about businessman Jacob Astor

He went to the United States following the American Revolutionary War and built a fur-trading empire that extended to the Great Lakes region and Canada, and later expanded into the American West and Pacific coast. He also got involved in smuggling opium. In the early 19th century he diversified into New York City real estate and later became a famed patron of the arts.

Originally posted by tintin2012
reply to post by frazzle

 

I wander what Tecumseh would have said if he was to be here today.

Tecumseh and all the other great Chiefs are probably sitting around their campfires in the sky smoking peace pipes and laughing at the whites for being such fools as to believe the treaty makers intended to keep their twisted promises to them, either. They're probably telling stories about how the whites are now the Indians. But it really isn't funny at all because whites of today have no culture or traditions to lose anyway and no spiritual connections with the earth that sustains them other than as dollar figures and worthless certificates of title that bind them not to the land, but to the taxing powers of the "kings". The sad part is that people seem to be completely oblivious that it was set up this way from the beginning.

Six thousand years of pillaging and plundering. It was always about centralized power and how the aristocrats could so easily scam the masses into believing they were heroes to whom every last grain of sand and drop of water must be given to be fouled and exploited for their profit. Its a religion and people keep giving their children as blood sacrifices to these greedy gods while calling the Aztecs barbarians.

"Our treaty" with the aristocrats ... Our national bible code ...

www.wepin.com... ARISTOCROTIS: Perhaps some weak heads may think that the constitution itself will be a check upon the new congress. But this I deny, for the convention has so happily worded themselves, that every part of this constitution either bears double meaning, or no meaning at all; and if any concessions are made to the people in one place, it is effectually cancelled in another-so that in fact this constitution is much better and gives more scope to the rulers than they durst safely take if there was no constitution at all. For then the people might contend that the power was inherent in them, and that they had made some implied reserves in the original grant. But now they cannot, for every thing is expressly given away to government in this plan.

Old Aristocrotis called them wordsmiths, too. And he was right.

reply to post by frazzle

Tecumseh and all the other great Chiefs are probably sitting around their campfires in the sky smoking peace pipes and laughing at the whites for being such fools as to believe the treaty makers intended to keep their twisted promises to them, either.

I think the Universe is also laughing with them at the White Lizards eating their own tails Sadly

I wonder if there exist and anti-Earth where everything is exactly the opposite

William Henry Harrison won the presidency in 1840 with the slogan, "Tippecanoe and Tyler Too." This refers to his participation in the Battle of Tippecanoe in 1811. He was seen as a hero when Tecumseh's forces were defeated at this battle. Harrison's presidency never really had a chance to begin. He delivered a very long inaugural address on a cold, windy day. Then he was caught in a rainstorm. He caught a cold which turned for the worse and led to his death. He 'served' as president from March 4 - April 4, 1841. His death would be seen as the first in a long series of what became known as Tecumseh's Curse: Presidents elected in a year ending in a zero would die in office.

Originally posted by tintin2012
reply to post by frazzle

 

Tecumseh and all the other great Chiefs are probably sitting around their campfires in the sky smoking peace pipes and laughing at the whites for being such fools as to believe the treaty makers intended to keep their twisted promises to them, either.

I think the Universe is also laughing with them at the White Lizards eating their own tails

Sadly

I wonder if there exist and anti-Earth where everything is exactly the opposite

Speaking of the universe laughing at us and white lizards eating their own tails, I picked up a book the other day called "If Ignorance is Bliss" and one of the quotes goes: "The problem with America is that there's too many open empty spaces ~ with teeth." Seemed appropriate.

If there was ever a place on earth where everything was the opposite, it was destroyed long ago. And sadly, if we were to reach for the stars to start new civilizations, we'd bring all the ingrained corruption with us in the cargo holds, just like the Mayflower etc. etc., we know no other way.

reply to post by frazzle


I'll check out that book as such subjects I find interesting.

we'd bring all the ingrained corruption with us in the cargo holds, just like the Mayflower etc. etc., we know no other way.

You're right on that one.

reply to post by tintin2012


The whole title is "If Ignorance Is Bliss, Why Aren't There More Happy People" ~ Smart Quotes For Dumb Times.
by John Lloyd and John Mitchinson.

reply to post by frazzle

I started reading Jefferson's address to Congress from the link you provided

The Works of Thomas Jefferson in Twelve Volumes. Federal Edition. Collected and Edited by Paul Leicester Ford. Thomas Jefferson to Congress, January 18, 1803 Jan. 18th, 1803. Gentlemen of the Senate, and of the House of Representatives:

Amazes me how arrogant it sounds. The attitude is "These kids don't know what they are doing so we are going to help them with OUR problem."

First: to encourage them to abandon hunting, to apply to the raising stock, to agriculture and domestic manufacture, and thereby prove to themselves that less land and labor will maintain them in this, better than in their former mode of living. The extensive forests necessary in the hunting life, will then become useless, and they will see advantage in exchanging them for the means of improving their farms, and of increasing their domestic comforts. Secondly: to multiply trading houses among them, and place within their reach those things which will contribute more to their domestic comfort, than the possession of extensive, but uncultivated wilds. Experience and reflection will develop to them the wisdom of exchanging what they can spare and we want, for what we can spare and they want. In leading them to agriculture, to manufactures, and civilization; in bringing together their and our settlements, and in preparing them ultimately to participate in the benefits of our governments, I trust and believe we are acting for their greatest good.

Then he continue to describe how he is going to help his buddy Jacob Aster (gentleman trader),

At these trading houses we have pursued the principles of the act of Congress, which directs that the commerce shall be carried on liberally, and requires only that the capital stock shall not be diminished. We consequently undersell private traders, foreign and domestic, drive them from the competition; and thus, with the good will of the Indians, rid ourselves of a description of men who are constantly endeavoring to excite in the Indian mind suspicions, fears, and irritations towards us.

All by Law, "we have pursued the principles of the act of Congress". Slick !!!

reply to post by tintin2012


tintin2012. Thanks for your contributions to this thread, they are greatly appreciated. Indeed the patronising of the Indians was "holy" in its scope, if you will. George Washington, our beloved, conducted campaigns against the Indians and was hated by them too.

CJ

reply to post by tintin2012

Amazes me how arrogant it sounds. The attitude is "These kids don't know what they are doing so we are going to help them with OUR problem."

There's just no better way to describe him than arrogant and Aristocrotus nails them all with the words that "in fact this constitution ... gives more scope to the rulers than they durst safely take if there was no constitution at all. For then the people might contend that the power was inherent in them, and that they had made some implied reserves in the original grant. But now they cannot, for every thing is expressly given away to government in this plan."

Basically what Jefferson, Astor and all the rest of the westward ho the wagons dudes promoted was a precursor to George W. Bush's "liberating" the Arab people and then rewriting history to make it sound as if we did them a tremendous favor by brutally taking their lives, occupying their lands and letting "god" sort them out. Democrats and republicans alike are all in on the game, always have been, and between these cocked up "parties" they've taken and retaken the world until there's nothing left to take.

By infecting entire generations with the doctrine of the sanctity of constitutional law they knew we would never be bold enough to walk away from their dogma and demand the power that is inherent in each of us. To do so would be heresy. And unconstitutional. But people are catching on.

So now its on again with the westward push and the technology to "depopulate softly" because there are just too many restless natives all around the world who are figuring out what arrogant bastards they and their UN buddies really are and there are too many who are on the verge of going postal on them. So bring out the smallpox blankets hidden in vaccine needles to create chaos and maintain control.