Tecumseh

Originally posted by AvisNigra
Tecumseh can be better understood through the lens of Simon Kenton. Read Eckert's The Frontiersman.

Bahd-ler as the Indians called him. I have read Eckert's "A Sorrow in Our Hearts" and am excited to see the same story through the eyes of Kenton. Tecumseh was amazed at Kenton and silently wished for him to escape the brutal gauntlets the Indians put him through. He was also happy when Kenton escaped the Shawnee although he knew Kenton would come back to haunt him.

CJ

Originally posted by ColoradoJens

Originally posted by AvisNigra
Tecumseh can be better understood through the lens of Simon Kenton. Read Eckert's The Frontiersman.

Bahd-ler as the Indians called him. I have read Eckert's "A Sorrow in Our Hearts" and am excited to see the same story through the eyes of Kenton. Tecumseh was amazed at Kenton and silently wished for him to escape the brutal gauntlets the Indians put him through. He was also happy when Kenton escaped the Shawnee although he knew Kenton would come back to haunt him.

CJ

Their stories are inextricably intertwined and I've always enjoyed reading and learning about both. The Frontiersman is a hefty, but rewarding read.

And those gauntlets.....my God, those gauntlets.

Originally posted by AvisNigra
Tecumseh can be better understood through the lens of Simon Kenton. Read Eckert's The Frontiersman.

Also known as Simon Balder...

Absolutely outstanding book! Loved it.

Edit to add.

I recall when they were going to burn him at the stake and after a couple of failed attempts...they decided the spirits did not want him to die so they let him go.

it's been many years since I read that book but it will always rate as one of my favorites.

As a side note.

I am a Civil War buff myself.

Union General William T. Sherman (February 8, 1820 – February 14, 1891).

Both famous and infamous for "Sherman's March" that broke the back of the Confederate movement...His middle name was in Honor of the Native American leader....the "T" = Tecumseh.

Originally posted by Jeremiah65

Originally posted by AvisNigra
Tecumseh can be better understood through the lens of Simon Kenton. Read Eckert's The Frontiersman.

Also known as Simon Balder...

Absolutely outstanding book! Loved it.

Edit to add.

I recall when they were going to burn him at the stake and after a couple of failed attempts...they decided the spirits did not want him to die so they let him go.

it's been many years since I read that book but it will always rate as one of my favorites.

edit on 10/3/2012 by Jeremiah65 because: (no reason given)

edit on 10/3/2012 by Jeremiah65 because: (no reason given)

edit on 10/3/2012 by Jeremiah65 because: (no reason given)

edit on 10/3/2012 by Jeremiah65 because: (no reason given)

Anyone who loves that book is good people.

The Shawnee made a good bit of troble for themselves. Not just with the whites but with other tribes. But they were an interesting people.

Originally posted by Logarock
The Shawnee made a good bit of troble for themselves. Not just with the whites but with other tribes. But they were an interesting people.

Lessee, was that trouble they were causing for other tribes before or after the whites started pushing them into territory historically held by other tribes? Did that trouble start before or after the US weaponized the various tribes against each other? Shades of Afghanistan, Iraq and Iran. Now you've got Sunnis killing Shia like there's no tomorrow. We've always been such world class uniters, never dividers.

They "were" interesting. Operative word. Why is it that people become interesting to us only after they're mostly dead and out of the way?

reply to post by frazzle



Well on the issues you bring up in your post, one thing that should be remembered about the Shawnee is that they were a nomatic people and a people that had tribal centers in a number of places at once......from Ohio to Georgia to the gulf coast and would move around every so many years. This created problems with other tribes from time to time. They even assassinated a well known Cherokee Chief down in Georgia and almost wiped out a tribe in Indiana.....just to name a few. They went where they wanted and dared anyone to do anything about it.

They also liked to kill thier own leaders that proposed peace with the whites as well as other trible chiefs that were outspoken for peace with the whites.

They were a warlike tribe that disregarded the protests of other tribes about territorial issues in a number of states. And this was thier tradition long before you could blame whites for anything..... not that the tribes lived together in harmony with the earth and each other before that mind you.

reply to post by ColoradoJens


Sorry if someone already posted this link.
But a couple years back PBS did this "American Experience" Special called "We Shall Remain"
They cover a lot of different points in NA History but this episode relates to your thread and you can watch the full show on Hula
Tecumseh's vision

reply to post by Logarock



All of what you're saying is history AFTER contact and as the victors wrote it. We know nothing of the "conflicts" that may or may not have taken place before whites arrived to make note of it.

Were there conflicts? Probably. Like there weren't any in Europe.

Tecumseh, a true Canadian hero if there ever was one. We haven't forgotten his contributions to keeping us free during the war of 1812.

reply to post by frazzle
Not really. There is a good deal of recorded history well before big scale conflict broke out with the whites.

The tecumseh person was like all tribal unifiers. He used propaganda, mysticism, appeals to race concepts.......in an attempt, hopes to kill every last white in north america.

I suspect that tecumsehs real problem with whites was that he couldnt push them around.....they liked to fight back and didnt take kindly to being axed to death and their homes burnt to the ground.

Originally posted by frazzle
reply to post by Logarock

 

Were there conflicts? Probably. Like there weren't any in Europe.

You should check out the movie "After the Mayflower"
Click here to watch the full movie

In March of 1621, in what is now southeastern Massachusetts, Massasoit, the leading sachem of the Wampanoag, sat down to negotiate with a ragged group of English colonists. Hungry, dirty, and sick, the pale-skinned foreigners were struggling to stay alive; they were in desperate need of Native help.

Massasoit faced problems of his own. His people had lately been decimated by unexplained sickness, leaving them vulnerable to the rival Narragansett to the west. The Wampanoag sachem calculated that a tactical alliance with the foreigners would provide a way to protect his people and hold his Native enemies at bay. He agreed to give the English the help they needed.

A half-century later, as a brutal war flared between the English colonists and a confederation of New England Indians, the wisdom of Massasoit’s diplomatic gamble seemed less clear. Five decades of English immigration, mistreatment, lethal epidemics, and widespread environmental degradation had brought the Indians and their way of life to the brink of disaster. Led by Metacom, Massasoit’s son, the Wampanoag and their Native allies fought back against the English, nearly pushing them into the sea.

reply to post by SassyCass


Thanks, I'll watch that, and the other one you posted, later today when I have more time.

Originally posted by palg1
Tecumseh, a true Canadian hero if there ever was one. We haven't forgotten his contributions to keeping us free during the war of 1812.

Yea thats right. The americans were to busy protecting their frountire from bands of tecumsehs killers and others burning and killing all along the zone. But hay it was tradition.....like durring the revolutionary war and the french war.

reply to post by SassyCass


I watched the two programs you linked back to back, figuring if I was going to wreck my day anyway I might as well get it over with. Not having owned a tv for many years, I wasn't aware that this was even part of the conversation but they meshed pretty well with what I already knew and added more color and context, so thanks for sharing them. Hopefully these shows were widely viewed when they were aired and more people are becoming aware of our sordid history.

Its painful to think of what could have been as opposed to what greed turned us into. The irony is that the idiots who participated in these heinous slaughters didn't end up in a better place and that their descendants are, or will soon, suffer many of the same indignities.

Originally posted by Logarock

Originally posted by palg1
Tecumseh, a true Canadian hero if there ever was one. We haven't forgotten his contributions to keeping us free during the war of 1812.

Yea thats right. The americans were to busy protecting their frountire from bands of tecumsehs killers and others burning and killing all along the zone. But hay it was tradition.....like durring the revolutionary war and the french war.

What, you wouldn't fight to save your homeland and your people from invaders? You'd be the first in line to embrace their crazy beliefs, manner of dress and culture? Tell you what, even after you did all that they'd still consider you a second class member of THEIR society. And don't think it couldn't happen.

Originally posted by Logarock
reply to post by frazzle

 

Not really. There is a good deal of recorded history well before big scale conflict broke out with the whites.

The tecumseh person was like all tribal unifiers. He used propaganda, mysticism, appeals to race concepts.......in an attempt, hopes to kill every last white in north america.

I suspect that tecumsehs real problem with whites was that he couldnt push them around.....they liked to fight back and didnt take kindly to being axed to death and their homes burnt to the ground.

How many times does one have to watch treaties being broken, lands being stolen, your father, brother, friends and family being killed before you take a stand? How many lies can you stomach as you are destroyed before you say "enough". Tecumseh took a stand due to the treachery lies and murder perpatrated upon him. Wouldn't you hate the people who stole everything from you and murdered your family in the process?

CJ

Originally posted by Logarock

Originally posted by palg1
Tecumseh, a true Canadian hero if there ever was one. We haven't forgotten his contributions to keeping us free during the war of 1812.

Yea thats right. The americans were to busy protecting their frountire from bands of tecumsehs killers and others burning and killing all along the zone. But hay it was tradition.....like durring the revolutionary war and the french war.

The Americans were busy breaking treaty after treaty that they initiated. They were busy stealing and plying the Indians for booze so they could trick them into bad deals, which even then was not enough. I suppose in your eyes the Indians deserved to be wiped out simply because.

CJ

Originally posted by ColoradoJens

Originally posted by Logarock

Originally posted by palg1
Tecumseh, a true Canadian hero if there ever was one. We haven't forgotten his contributions to keeping us free during the war of 1812.

Yea thats right. The americans were to busy protecting their frountire from bands of tecumsehs killers and others burning and killing all along the zone. But hay it was tradition.....like durring the revolutionary war and the french war.

The Americans were busy breaking treaty after treaty that they initiated. They were busy stealing and plying the Indians for booze so they could trick them into bad deals, which even then was not enough. I suppose in your eyes the Indians deserved to be wiped out simply because.

CJ

The really crazy part of it is that the treaty breakers still break law after law that they, themselves, initiate while plying us with pharmaceutical drugs so they can trick us into accepting bad deals and steal from the American people what they originally stole from the Indian people.

Speaking of wiped out ~ some of the modern day landgrabbers have decided that up to 80% of the people are useless eaters and need to go.