Why Should More Americans Die For Israel?

Israel is supposedly our ally. However, they did not help the U.S. in the first gulf war, nor did they send soldiers to Iraq in the most recent war. Even though the most recent war in Iraq was largely based on defending Israel.

Three of the most important people who pushed for the invasion of Iraq in 2003 were Richard Perle, chair of the Pentagon's Defense Policy Board, Paul Wolfowitz, Deputy Defense Secretary, and Douglas Feith, Under Secretary of Defense for Policy at the time. All are extremely pro-Israel, being Jewish themselves they have a lot of interest in Israeli security.

It's fair to say that these men had strong motivations of protecting and helping Israel at the expense of U.S. Soldiers and Tax Payers.

"In mid-1996, a policy paper prepared for then-Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu outlined a grand strategy for Israel in the Middle East. Entitled "A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm," it was written under the auspices of an Israeli think tank, the Institute for Advanced Strategic and Political Studies. Specifically, it called for an "effort [that] can focus on removing Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq, an important Israeli strategic objective in its own right..."

The authors of "A Clean Break" included Richard Perle, Douglas Feith, and David Wurmser, three influential Jews who later held high-level positions in the Bush administration, 2001-2004: Perle as chair of the Defense Policy Board, Feith as Undersecretary of Defense, and Wurmser as special assistant to the Undersecretary of State for Arms Contro"

Iraq: A War For israel

Why was someone who became a major part of the U.S. government's foreign policy authoring a policy paper presented to the Israeli Prime Minister calling for the removal of Saddam Hussein?

How was he able to get into a position to put this plan of protecting Israel into motion?

Over the past few decades, a tight-knit group of neo-conservatives have had a significant impact in the carving out of American foreign policies, especially those concerning the Middle East. Arguably at the helm of the neoconservative movement is Richard Perle. He has been aided by other prominent neoconservatives, including Paul Wolfowitz and Douglas Feith.

From 1981 to 1982 Wolfowitz was appointed head of the policy planning staff in the State Department.[1] In the same year Perle, who was an assistant secretary for international security policy in President Reagan’s defense department hired and promoted Douglas Feith after he had been fired from his position as a Middle East analyst at the National Security Council.[1] Later it was found out that Feith was fired due to an FBI investigation suspecting that he had distributed confidential materials to an Israeli embassy official.[1] With the right connections and support of his close allies Wolfowitz and Perle, Feith was able to attain the position of undersecretary for policy in the Pentagon in 2001 of which he resigned in 2005. In return, he appointed Perle as chairman of the Defense Policy Board.[1]

Wiki

So Douglas Feith was suspected of distributing confidential materials to an Israeli embassy official.. but guess who else was caught doing the same thing:

Perle has on occasion been accused of being an Israeli agent of influence. It has been reported that, while he was working for Jackson, "An FBI summary of a 1970 wiretap recorded Perle discussing classified information with someone at the Israeli embassy," writes Paul Findley (They Dare To Speak Out, Chicago, Ill, Lawrence Hill Books 1989)."He came under fire in 1983 when newspapers reported he received substantial payments to represent the interests of an Israeli weapons company. Perle denied conflict of interest, insisting that, although he received payment for these services after he had assumed his position in the Defense Department, he was between government jobs when he worked for the Israeli firm."

Wiki

Perle also highly profited off of the Iraq war, but the discussion of that deserves its own thread.

Let's not forget either that Israel sent no soldiers to Afghanistan after 9/11, of course it was because the U.S. asked them not to. Hardly shocking in context, we fight wars for Israeli security. The pro-Israel members of government who push for wars in Israel's defense make sure no actual Israelis have to fight in them, only Americans need die in these wars. Even though a supposedly main reason we were attacked was because of our support of Israel.

On top of everything the U.S. government gives Israel billions of dollars in military and financial aid annually, paid for by U.S. tax payers. The U.S. - Israel relationship is not one of mutual sharing or interest. Israel receives all the benefits from this relationship while the U.S. suffers greatly.

So I ask you, why should we fight another war for Israel, this time in Iran?

They shouldn't and they won't.

There will be no war with Iran that the Americans are involved within. Israel's fate is Israel's fate alone. It may choose peace or assured chaos. It will be on its own it it chooses the latter. I can guarantee it.

My take is Israel was kept out of the actions in the Middle East to keep down the possible use of their participation as a rallying point for the Islamist. That and the countries we used as staging areas would have had greater problems with their people.

If it kicks off over there I'm not sure what the current knot head in the White House will do.

Why?

Why have Americans died for any other Country than their own?

Its about time we take care of our own front porch before we go trying to take care of another!!!!!

There is no reason for it, other than to make money and cause war between people and nations.

War or Peace? I choose Peace!

Too bad our leaders are so stuck on dominating the entire globe!

When you realize that the Neo-Conservative movement was mainly nurtured by Pro-Israeli Jews, and that Fox is a Neo-Conservative news source, it's not hard to see why Fox is so pro-israel and pro-military intervention in the middle east.

They have tricked the blue collar conservatives of the U.S. into thinking what's good for Israel is good for the U.S.

That's why every Republican presidential candidate that has any real chance of winning the nomination must automatically be pro-Israel.

Of course I'm going to be labeled an Anti-Semite for stating this truth I'm sure. Even though this has nothing to do with the Jewish Religion.

Because you have been ordered to, you silly minions! Aha.

You should all rally together and sit on the Whitehouse lawn, and tell your so called government, you won't be dragged into any more wars.

But the American people won't do that will they? They'll just allow it to happen whilst they sit in McDonalds.

The best resistance the people have shown in recent years is Occupy, and half of you had issues with that!

I haven't forgotton all the American user anti- occupy threads that bombarded these boards, and you come here seeking truth? Pahaha.

(Not aimed at the OP by the way, you know who you are if you are reading this)

The Zionists within our government are acting as a Fifth Column, and will bring about our destruction unless we stop them.

Only Israelis should die for Israel. American intervention in Israel's ambitions is a bad idea. For government officials of the US to push an Israeli agenda, which only benefits Israel, is high treason.

Rest assured that Israel will do nothing to assist the US if she needs it, because Israel is the biggest sucker on Uncle Sugar's teat. If Uncle Sugar falls, Israel will kick him to the curb and go look for other sources to subsist off of.

The whole "chosen people" paradigm is offensive to me, and the amount of money we pay these people to pretend to be superior is just sickening.

Let Israel do what they want. We need to stop supporting them and let them rush headlong into their own demise.

Soon people will wake up and understand who is pulling the strings. Other than the obvious,you have a shadow gov. in takeover mode with no care about anyone's suffering and pain but their own. As more and more soldiers join the collateral damage group,the controllers should be front line to get a total experience.
Peace!

Why? Simple. They have several hundred nukes that's why. And their Samson option. Where they basically nuke every oil well, oil port, and pipeline they can reach. Simply put if Israel feel it's going to be destroyed they will take everyone with them.

It might take a year or two but the world may not be able to handle the economic shock if Saudi Arabia and the rest of the Persian gulf states are put off line for years. And the possible nuclear winter that would result from all those nukes may just seal the deal.

Bottom line is 20 to 30 years in the future is a world population in the millions and most of them living somewhere between Mad Max and cavemen. Attacking Israel could mean a Extinction Level Event. Because they remember WW2.

Imagine a big airplane is hi-jacked and crushed into the buildings of the most secure part of the world.

I mean , even Iran could below those planes to stop a big incident

But US won't.

Then all the wars and destruction begin.

Nation after nation.

I could guess that it is not for Interest of American people.

+ they have predicted all these destructions in their book. Maybe they are told what to do exactly.

Originally posted by TheOneElectric
They shouldn't and they won't.

There will be no war with Iran that the Americans are involved within. Israel's fate is Israel's fate alone. It may choose peace or assured chaos. It will be on its own it it chooses the latter. I can guarantee it.

i dont share your confidence...

how can you guarantee it? cuz i dont feel safe if it's just your word, no proof... no offense.

reply to post by Drezden


I do think there are interesting links between Zionism & U.S. imperialism; however, I remain most pursuaded by arguments which make the case that the U.S. pursues its self-interests first and foremost. For instance, if oil were not the chief energy & economic interest of the world then I doubt there would be so much U.S. misadventure occcurring in the Middle East. Instead, U.S. diplomatic and military boondoggling would occur elsewhere; that elsewhere would probably occur wherever the world's chief energy/economic resource was most abundant.

Just my opinion & I don't think your OP was a display of antisemitism. For that matter I don't think a person could reaonably be described as an anti-Semite if he or she identified as an anti-Zionist. I think this because I believe Zionism is an admixture of Jewish and Gentile political philosophy, both of which were and continue to be influenced by Judaism and Christianity. And while I'm on this train of thought about Judaism and Christianity I'll speculate that both (i.e. Judaism and Christianity) cannot be the truth about God or a Creator at the same time. That there is an alliance (as distinguished from peaceful coexistence despite schismatic viewpoints) between these two groups is, I think, very peculiar.

"Why Should More Americans Die For Israel?"

Interesting question. Is there anything that Americans shoulddie for? Have all of our wars been unjust? Will all of our future wars be unjust? Even the Revolutionary War? Are there some principles that we should be willing to die for? Should we be willing to die for other people who are trying to secure those same principles, or are we the only ones we should care about?

As I said, interesting question.

When have American soldiers died for Israel? Am I missing something?

Korea? No.

Vietnam? No.

Gulf War? Hell no. The war in Iraq was completely self serving for American interests and everyone knows it. In fact, Israel was chomping at the bit to blast Iraq into the stone age after Sadam Hussein's military began launching scud missiles on Israeli cities, but it was the US that wanted Israel to stand down to avoid an escalation of the conflict in the region. To keep Israel at bay, the US set up the patriot missile defense system to defend Israeli civilians from the scud missile attacks.

Iraq/Afganistan? Once again, completely self serving for American interests.

I notice this unsubstantiated myth has been propogated many times on ATS despite the evidence to the contrary.

reply to post by Bramble Iceshimmer


It hard to understand why so many people have no understanding of what they are talking about . Israel was stopped by our militarily from helping us in any actions in the Middle East because Arabs hate Israel . Their presence would unite the Arabs even though they hate each other .
This war is unstoppable and we over here will be involved . We will likely end up in a Nuclear exchange even if we don't hit Iran .
It is the express idea of Iran to start World War 3 in order to bring back their Mahdi the 12th Imam . Don't blame it on Israel . They can only try to stop Iran from getting the bomb . Iran wants to use an EMP weapon on us . That's what the bomb is for .

reply to post by Drezden

Israel has been FORBIDDEN BY THE UNITED STATES to bomb Iranian Nuclear sites. To do so would Poison the whole MIDDLE EAST. Iran will most likely IMPLODE UPON ITSELF...but if Iran does something stupid such as Close the Strait of Hormuz...the U.S. will SIzE all Iranian Nuclear Sites and we have deals worked out with Iran's Navy and other Military Leadership as they do not want any part of a WAR with the United States.

Iran's Military will stand down...or be DESTROYED...THEY WILL stand down and become the protectors of a NEW FREE DEMOCRATIC IRAN. Split Infinity

Why does America keep going out to deal with other peoples problems?
Because they want to stay a world leader. They want POWER.
Power comes with responsibility- they are two sides of the same coin. You can't have one without the other.
If you want power over others, you have to accept responsibility for others.

That seems so bloody obvious to me, in big international affairs, as well as less important things on a personal scale.... That it boggles my mind how many people seem to struggle with that choice! They desire and search to have power (to have attention, to be a leader, to be popular...) and then bitch and moan that they are expected to fulfil responsibility with that, and that higher standards and expectations are applied to them, and that they take the blame for others mistakes. That is what is entailed in the position, always!

It is a choice.

More and more I believe our politicians are starting to get the message about Israel. I think some are no longer going to bow down to them. Of course not all of them.. There are still too many lining their pockets with AIPAC money. But I think some are starting to realize that involving the US in another Israeli war would be pointless, and they aren't falling for Netanyahoo's bulls--- anymore.

For example, Today when Ahmadinejad spoke at the UN today, Israel envoys immediately stood up and waked out. Expecting the American delegates to do the same, they were shocked when NO ONE ELSE stood up and walked out. That is very telling. Usually when Israel barks, we cower with our tail between our legs and do as they say. It seems now this is not immediately the case.

People say things like we are "throwing Israel under the bus". Frankly, I think we (as a nation) are starting to open our eyes.

reply to post by DerekJR321


Could it be because they are afraid of them . Has the Islamist knuckled under these countries for fear of retaliation . Our Muslim, his own words , would kiss their butts of course . I am ashamed of any association with him .