Report: Riots break out at Foxconn factory in China

Originally posted by WakeUpNowSnap
Marxism and Communism are incompatible at Raccoon City.
Capitalism is though at Fauxconn City.

Those are truly appalling photos posted by Swill$. *
Communism is Godless religion that has killed 100 million.

The word Ghetto comes to mind.

If you really think these conditions are horrible ... then I suggest you do the world a favor, and throw your computer into the garbage can.

If you think you can go and buy expensive stuff instead, your wrong. the iPhone is made right there ... that's Steve Jobs, whose giving these people their jobs. This is Bill Gates doing ... this is Rockefeller's doing.

You wanna be so ignorant and stupid, to think this has anything to do with communism ... go educate yourself.

This is capitalism ... this is America. They outsource your jobs to China, so that they can maximize their profit and live like kings. What you see their, are the slaves that make your Hollywood glamour possible ... without these slaves, there would be no iPhone, and no Hollywood.

This is Capitalism ...

Originally posted by boncho
I hope anyone who criticizes this isn't on a computer... Oh wait...

Better not be online at all, in which case you can't offer your opinion on a forum like this one. Anyone who buys anything out of China supports these types of conditions. And while people complain about not enough jobs, these ones have all been sent overseas to places like this, and India, so the Western world can download the newest app, so we can buy crap at Walmart that is cheaper than anywhere else.

Myself I can live with the fact that I enjoy a lot of my luxuries off the backs of others. It's not ideal, but it is a thousand year old story.

The real question is can you?

You would be hard pressed to find any and I do mean any consumable product that hasn't been slaved over to bring it to market. It's the way the world is.

Ok great point, now what's so hard about paying them a bit more? Why can there NOT be better living conditions at the factory?

Originally posted by boncho
Steve is dead actually...

Ooops lol you're right, that piece was from last year.

And communists do what exactly?

It depends on what, or who, you are referring to. Communism is not the problem here. China is not communist, never was.

You are actually the problem of why garbage like this continues to happen. You and anyone trying to politicize something like this.

I'm not politicizing anything, I am talking about economics. Capitalism, communism/socialism, are economic systems. This is the age old problem of capitalist economic exploitation, supported by a compliant state systems here and in China.

It's not a communist, capitalist, democrat or republican problem. It's a human problem between employer and worker. And unions, who are supposed to champion the worker, have forced business in some cases to leave because they go to far. Just as we see here when the business has to much leverage they take advantage of the worker.

The problem is caused by capitalism, the private ownership of the means of production. If they had real communism in China, worker ownership, they would not be able to be exploited by western companies looking to make mass profits from cheap labour.

There has to be a common ground between business and employee, that's all there is to it. There doesn't need to be the politics in between.

How can they reach a common ground? Capitalists are not interested in any common ground, they want to make the most profit from the cheapest labour they can find. This is not a new issue, it has been going on for over 200 years.

What politics? We're talking about economics.

reply to post by bjarneorn


Quit blaming the consumer.

The fault lies with those doing the exploiting, those sending their operation overseas for cheaper labour and tax evasion...

Originally posted by ANOK
reply to post by bjarneorn

 

Quit blaming the consumer.

The fault lies with those doing the exploiting, those sending their operation overseas for cheaper labour and tax evasion...

Did you forget what the technology sector was like when jobs began going overseas? It was around the time of the tech bubble crashing where a large percentage went bankrupt.

Don't think that Foxconn only makes Apple products either:

Foxconn makes iPhones and iPads for Apple Inc. and also assembles products for Microsoft Corp. and Hewlett-Packard Co. It is one of China’s biggest employers, with some 1.2 million workers in factories in Taiyuan, the southern city of Shenzhen, in Chengdu in the west and in Zhengzhou in central China.

www.theglobeandmail.com...

Foxconn is primarily an original design manufacturer, and its clients include major American, European and Japanese electronics and information technology companies. Notable products which the company manufactures include the iPad,[5] iPhone,[6] iPod,[6] Kindle,[7] PlayStation 3,[8] and Xbox 360.[9]

Major customers of Foxconn currently include:
Acer Inc. (Taiwan)[40]
Amazon.com (United States)[7]
Apple Inc. (United States)[41]
Cisco (United States)[42]
Dell (United States)[43]
Hewlett-Packard (United States)[44]
Intel (United States)[45]
Microsoft (United States)[9]
Motorola Mobility (United States)[43]
Nintendo (Japan)[46]
Nokia (Finland)[41]
Sony (Japan)[8]
Toshiba (Japan) [47]
Vizio (United States)[48]

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by ANOK


Communism is not even on topic here, but you are bringing into the discussion. Which is part of the problem. Like I said, politics has no place in this discussion because it is a problem that is manipulated by politics but transcends all of it.

Capitalism, communism/socialism, are economic systems. This is the age old problem of capitalist economic exploitation, supported by a compliant state systems here and in China.

Ah yes, tell us how communism worked out for the Soviets. What you are implying is that somehow any of these systems offer some kind of protection against exploitation of the worker but in reality none do. Which is why politics is moot.

en.wikipedia.org...

The problem is caused by capitalism, the private ownership of the means of production. If they had real communism in China, worker ownership, they would not be able to be exploited by western companies looking to make mass profits from cheap labour.

Offer up an example of communist society where the same never happened. Thanks in advance for conceding your argument...

How can they reach a common ground? Capitalists are not interested in any common ground, they want to make the most profit from the cheapest labour they can find. This is not a new issue, it has been going on for over 200 years.

There is a common ground between employer and worker when a company and their business model is profitable and the market can sustain them, where the employees make decent wages. I don't see this as being hard to grasp. Low cost labor has its own caveats. I presume it does not pay to have shoddy (unqualified) engineers work in many fields, as product quality is important in many sectors... The willingness to pay for high end products on the other hand, is another story.

From the top to the bottom, at the highest and lowest rungs, when 3 quotes come in, it's often the cheapest bid that receives the contract. Yet, when this happens, a higher associated cost will be realized from unforeseen circumstances. Which is why most people in charge of procuring contracts/products/merchandise go to the median because the best value can be seen....

reply to post by LightWarrior11

Ok great point, now what's so hard about paying them a bit more? Why can there NOT be better living conditions at the factory?

If they were paying more for those jobs, (and it was viable) they probably would have stayed stateside, and the same people working in this factor would be making Nike's or sewing designer labels.

There isn't enough bread for everyone, no matter how rosy you want the world to be. Perhaps if world population decreases dramatically, and there aren't wasted resources, you could build a world with job standards throughout it, but it's highly doubtful. This is just one region, and one sector, theres hundreds more after this one....

Originally posted by boncho

There isn't enough bread for everyone, no matter how rosy you want the world to be.

There is plenty of bread made off the backs of workers mate.

You are just making excuses, do you have to be reminded of this...

Apple, Inc. is undoubtedly one of the most powerful and profitable companies worldwide. Last quarter, Apple made $13.1 billion, it’s highest profits yet and a 117 percent jump from last year. Apple’s current CEO Tim Cook has increased his salary by six-fold and could very well be the highest paid CEO of 2011.

How Apple Sits On Billions And Makes Record Profits While Its Chinese Laborers Work In Deadly Conditions

Spread the wealth. Why should people live in those conditions just to make other people wealthy?

reply to post by ANOK


So Apple is only making money because of buying parts from Foxconn? But Microsoft does too, why don't they see the same result?

Microsoft's fourth quarter of its 2012 financial year was a mixed bag. Revenue is up to $18.06 billion, up 4 percent year-on-year. However, operating income is down 97 percent to just $192 million, and the company reported a $0.06 loss per share.

For the full year, the company posted revenue of $73,723 million and an operating income of $21,763 million, a gain of 5.4 percent and a loss of 19.9 percent respectively.

arstechnica.com...

What about HP? They use Foxconn too...

The world's No. 1 personal computer maker, which employs more than 300,000 people globally, also said on Wednesday that it had a 31 percent decline in second-quarter profit and a 3 percent decline in revenue, compared with a year ago.

Dell? They use Foxconn:

The Round Rock, Texas, company said Tuesday that profit for its fiscal period ended Aug. 3 plunged 18% as revenue dropped 8%. The company also projected another revenue decline for the current quarter and substantially revised downward its full-year earnings forecast.

So the profit Apple saw was only because they purchased from Foxconn, and they should now give back to a contracted company?

Or should you be criticizing Foxconn and their CEO instead?

Originally posted by LightWarrior11

Originally posted by boncho
I hope anyone who criticizes this isn't on a computer... Oh wait...

Better not be online at all, in which case you can't offer your opinion on a forum like this one. Anyone who buys anything out of China supports these types of conditions. And while people complain about not enough jobs, these ones have all been sent overseas to places like this, and India, so the Western world can download the newest app, so we can buy crap at Walmart that is cheaper than anywhere else.

Myself I can live with the fact that I enjoy a lot of my luxuries off the backs of others. It's not ideal, but it is a thousand year old story.

The real question is can you?

You would be hard pressed to find any and I do mean any consumable product that hasn't been slaved over to bring it to market. It's the way the world is.

Ok great point, now what's so hard about paying them a bit more? Why can there NOT be better living conditions at the factory?

Oh because these dirty little corporations will be "so disappointed" losing quarterly profits and such. If we make the product here in the states, we will be making ok money because they're paying us ok and at the same no real cash flow for them.

reply to post by Xtrozero

.Romney and Obama got nothing to do with it though.

Romney has nothing to do with it? That's why he visited a Chinese factory that he outsourced to.

I have a foxconn motherboard.

I also noticed that newegg stopped selling my particular model too, as well as a few other foxconn products. At least they are doing their part. Now to change out some hardware...

reply to post by sylent6


Hey,

That is exactly what I did. My work conditions became intolerable and I quit. I walked off the job, called HR and told them to get a new manager in their because I was not coming back.

11 years with the company, top salary for my position, 5 weeks paid vacation, stock, blah, blah, blah and I let it all go because the management left me miserable. You can't have a life if you work 6 days a week and your time left is spent anxious about being contacted by work and constantly being contacted by work.

It was scary I wont lie about that. I did not get unemployment because I quit so I had no income at all, instantly. After five months when I found my new job I had $185.00 in my bank account and a few grand in available credit.

I am so much happier now and standing up for myself was one of the most satisfying and empowering experiences of my life.

I just wanted to add my two cents that just quitting is an option.

Bring all the work back to the states were prisoners will be used to make these products. General Electric uses prisoners. With american having the biggest population of prisoners and growing it makes perfect sense. Now everyone has to get use to a 4 x 8 cell and 3 squares a day......................It is sad that some have to work like this. Kids in Africa get nothing for picking cocoa beans so we can have chocolate bars. How much money do people need and yet these rich buggers are considered nice people because they are philanthropist. I think it is a PR thing with a dash of guilt

boncho, are you playing devil's advocate?

There are factories were people are suffering to the extent that some of them will commit suicide to end their misery. Are you truly comfortable with that and are you really enjoying a lot of your luxuries?

I enjoyed a lot of my luxuries when I was ignorant. But now I know, and so now I don't. Sometimes when I get home from night shift, before I go to bed I'll sit in my lounge after my wife has taken my kids to kindy and I'll hold one of my kids' toys, trace my eyes across the "Made in China" embossing and wonder who tightened the screws? Who sprayed on the paint? Were they fighting to stay on their feet, hungry and tired?

The material world around me is tainted and sour now. I am deeply troubled by many things that I know now and I, for one, no longer enjoy my luxuries.

And when I think about the horrific sacrifices that go into these products, it makes me actually sick when people talk about upgrading. Why, why discard a tool that is already far, far more powerful than you need just to replace it with something even more powerful? When so much suffering went into it's manufacture, why discard it?

I don't understand why people keep buying stuff. TVs, tablets, phones which are full unix servers that people who buy them don't even know how to use properly, people just keep buying, buying and buying. How much can you buy before your home is completely full? And when something breaks, people don't take their stuff to a repair man, they just replace it saying it's not worth getting it fixed... huh, not worth it? Real, tangible sacrifice went into making it, how on Earth, how, how can it not be worth paying your local repair guy to fix it? When the alternative is to help perpetuate other people's misery and suffering?

reply to post by Recouper


It's a dog eat dog world, and it's not one where we can just go live off the land and say "the hell with it" like it was at one point. I've been the person in the factory in the past, and I chose not to be. Now as life has progressed, I wouldn't treat my own workers like that, but at the same time, I won't feel sorry for anything I have. The least I can do is be good to the people around me, and that's how I sleep at night.

On the other hand, I don't sit around crying about other people's problems while simultaneously contributing to them. I just recognize it for what it is.

I'm not implying you are, but most that take up the "cause" are no better than the cause. (If you get my drift.)

Originally posted by Swills
Well yeah, they're definitely sick of the low pay but also the living and work conditions. There's a reason why Foxconn has had to deal with suicides.

I'm still confused as to why they live at factory in dorms.

They live in dorms because it's slave labor. This is shown by the fact that no external economy exists in these locations. They build these factories in more remote areas so that people have no choice but to live inside a closed camp - legally imposed imprisonment. These people have no choice but to submit to living in disgusting places like this, and work insane hours for next to nothing, otherwise they starve!

In the west, these places would be built and housing would follow for the workforce, but these people are paid so little by corporations like Apple they cannot support their own community.

There are several people to blame here...

1. Apple and their greedy senior staff claiming ridiculous pay for sitting behind a desk.
2. The factory owners who again claim massive profits for doing nothing.
3. The Chinese government for allowing these corporations to abuse their citizens for profit.
4. The owners of iPhone's who conveniently ignore their responsibility when supporting these corporations.

Ultimately it will take riots, unions and time to change this. But don't expect the wealthy abusers of Humanity to give up their million $ paychecks for sitting behind a desk too easily. And, unfortunately, we could have a million stories like this coming out of China and millions of selfish, greedy, shallow and empty consumers in the west will still line up outside Cult HQ to satisfy their addiction for trash.

reply to post by boncho


How about the sales figures for those companies are going down, while their senior pay and bonuses stay the same? Are you suggesting that, because they are failing in their own business, they are not responsible for paying their workforce (or that of their sub contractors) almost nothing?

I really don't understand your argument. These corporations use this other corporation, and both are systematically screwing over the little guy making their products - without which none of them would be making ANY money.

How does their own failure to sell their products have anything to do with their lack of responsibility to the little guy?

Anecdotally, ~700 protests take place most days in China. Seem like a lot, until you factor in the 1.35 billion thang. So, a riot (or a hundred) is hardly surprising.

What we in the West need to monitor carefully, however, is how the politburo handle such "civil unrest". If they suppress it with and iron fist, the status quo is and will remain intact, for now. If they let such incidents flourish and instead opt for diversional tactics (like historical animosity with Japan) to distract the disgruntled, then we'll have a problem.

For anyone who knows anything about how communism works knows its only in it to stay in power and this power can only be had by force. This exertion of force which - if its reaches critical mass intramurally - must have tributary to be channelled externally. I this case, a tributary that has been fashioned through generations with the inculcation of anti-Japanese sentiment in the Chinese educational system. Japanese intransigents on such matters has in no small part contributed too.

[Sidebar]

Originally posted by sylent6
no free IPhone 5's were handed out huh

Correction: that's... (no free)

iPhone 1 version 5.0's

(were handed out huh)

reply to post by detachedindividual


I was pointing out it wasn't just one company using Foxconn, nor should it matter what the profits/losses are. That's not the issue. It's obvious companies not making large profits are still buying from the same company, so whether or not they made huge profits is besides the point.

If put into a different context than maybe there's an argument. But singling out one company because they made money, while others didn't, using the same slave labor is just asinine.