Justice Department IG Report Refutes Many Issa Claims from Fast and Furious Scandal, page 1

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ATS Members have flagged this thread 4 times

Topic started on 19-9-2012 @ 09:31 PM by Flatfish

I heard about this report while watching a MSM news source this morning and according to a report just issued by the Justice Dept. Inspector General, Darrell Issa is just another blow-hard republican on a witch hunt.

news.firedoglake.com...

The report by the Justice Department’s Inspector General Michael Horowitz said there is “no evidence that … Holder was informed about Operation Fast and Furious, or learned about the tactics employed by ATF in the investigation” before Congress began pressing him for information about it in early 2011.

The inspector general did determine that the acting deputy attorney general, Gary Grindler, received a briefing about the ill-fated gun-tracing operation in March 2010, but that the briefing “failed to alert Grindler to problems in the investigation.”

The report also concluded that the operation was “seriously flawed and supervised irresponsibly” by federal officials in Arizona, who allowed it to continue in hopes of scoring a big case against a gun-trafficking organization despite obvious problems.

I know that this ruling won't be the end of this matter and I can already hear the uproar coming from all the Issa supporters here on ATS but it is what it is and it's definitely not what Issa wanted to hear. If anything, this just goes to prove that one should be careful of what they ask for. He was desperately looking for something, anything, to pin on Obama but look at what he got instead.

Again, we have this tension between the IG report and the Fortune report. But you can read either of those and agree that Holder had no notice of the situation, that there was no master plot to cause a spate of Mexican drug cartel violence to build the case for gun control, or that Main Justice lied to Congress. This formed the core of Issa’s contentions on Fast and Furious, and they have been found to not carry any evidentiary basis.

Whatever happened in Arizona, it happened from the ground up many years ago starting under the Bush Administration. It bears little resemblance to Issa’s fevered dreams.

Do you know what you get when you mix Bush politics with Arizona mentality? Fast & Furious, that's what.

Oh well, I guess someone's going to have to fill the void when Michele Bachman gets removed from office this November. I mean, nut jobs deserve representation too and it's looking like Darrell Issa may just fit right in.

reply posted on 19-9-2012 @ 09:37 PM by charles1952

I don't know what Issa's claims were, but I know he asked for an independent counsel to investigate. Obama said no and had the Justice Department investigate the boss of the Justice Department.

If this were some other subject, wouldn't ATSers be screaming "Cover Up?"

reply posted on 19-9-2012 @ 09:43 PM by Flatfish

Originally posted by charles1952
I don't know what Issa's claims were, but I know he asked for an independent counsel to investigate. Obama said no and had the Justice Department investigate the boss of the Justice Department.

If this were some other subject, wouldn't ATSers be screaming "Cover Up?"

You're quite right and yes they will, but that won't change the truth, now will it? Like I said, I'm sure this won't be the last we hear of this "pin-the-tail-on-Obama" witch hunt led by Darrell Issa, but it's a start in the right direction.

reply posted on 19-9-2012 @ 09:50 PM by watchitburn

reply to post by Flatfish

Whoa, whoa, whoa,

Let me get this straight, The Justice Dept. conducts an "investigation" on the Attorney General. And you say that this report provided by the Govt. investigating it's self is the Truth?

Oh man, that was good.

reply posted on 19-9-2012 @ 10:36 PM by Golf66

Originally posted by Flatfish

You're quite right and yes they will, but that won't change the truth, now will it?

I am sure that the Justice Department thoroughly and honestly investigated themselves. They were sure to investigate their boss Eric too. He was found of course to be absolved of any involvement.

I don't see any way this information should be suspect at all. I think it is always best to have subordinates investigate their employer and if possible to investigate themselves if there is a suspicion of wrongdoing.

Certainly this is will always be the best possible case - after all what better source than oneself. We are the most honest with ourselves it is just human nature. After all "they" know the most about "the way things are done" so they will give the most accurate account of the facts.

There is no possibility of a cover up here - government agencies should all investigate themselves from time to time. No need for independent oversight or accountability to the electorate.

reply posted on 19-9-2012 @ 10:41 PM by sad_eyed_lady

Katie Pavlich who wrote the book about the F and F scandal:

Eric Holder Does a Victory Dance Around Fast and Furious
townhall.com...

Attorney General Eric Holder is "spiking the football" with the release of the DOJ Inspector General report about Operation Fast and Furious. The report essentially lets Holder off the hook while blaming everyone else, including his second hand man Assistant Attorney General Lanny Breuer, for the failed and lethal operation.

Holder, what a weasel!

edit on 9/19/2012 by sad_eyed_lady because: Name calling on Holder

reply posted on 19-9-2012 @ 10:52 PM by sad_eyed_lady

reply to post by charles1952

If this were some other subject, wouldn't ATSers be screaming "Cover Up?"

ATS Election Year Motto - Deny Ignorance When It Doesn't Involved The Party You Support

reply posted on 19-9-2012 @ 11:01 PM by Blackmarketeer

When Darrel Issa starts going after the root cause of F&F, namely Project Gunrunner (2005) and it's two ill-fated operations, Wide Receiver (2006) and F&F (2009), and it's architect, former DOJ head-honcho Alberto Gonzalez, then I'll start taking it seriously. This was just an attempt by Republicans to shift the blame for something started under their administration to the incoming democratic one.

reply posted on 19-9-2012 @ 11:36 PM by sad_eyed_lady

reply to post by Blackmarketeer

The 5 Biggest Differences Between Operation Fast and Furious and Operation Wide Receiver
www.theblaze.com...

Just things like the Mexican's approved of it......

They stopped it when they recognized its failure not when a Border Patrol guard died and they got caught.

reply posted on 19-9-2012 @ 11:43 PM by jimmyx

Originally posted by charles1952
I don't know what Issa's claims were, but I know he asked for an independent counsel to investigate. Obama said no and had the Justice Department investigate the boss of the Justice Department.

If this were some other subject, wouldn't ATSers be screaming "Cover Up?"

having lived in calif all my life, i can tell you Issa IS a blowhard...he has constantly taken a little knowledge and blown it way out of proportion... he's an embarassment to fellow californians. he has always been a mean SOB, and he's thinks his poop doesn't stink.

reply posted on 19-9-2012 @ 11:55 PM by charles1952

reply to post by sad_eyed_lady

Dear sad_eyed_lady,

ATS Election Year Motto - Deny Ignorance When It Doesn't Involved The Party You Support

you're quite correct, this wasn't a Bush operation. Obama started up a new one of his own. But, besides your new motto, I've had another thought. Has Obama ever done anything wrong?

I mean in four years with thousands of decisions each year, wouldn't you think a human would get some things wrong? I would expect any person to say, once in a while, "I screwed up, sorry." But I don't hear that from Obama. I've heard Solyndra was Bush's fault, so is F&F, and our current economic mess, and the fact that the Mid-East hates us, and I could fill a page with what he blames on the fact that the Republicans controlled the House for two years.

Whatever I might think of his policies, he's not a man. Oh, he's male, but a man sees what has to be done, accomplishes it, admits when he's wrong, takes the blame for his own mistakes and those of the people he's hired, fixes the problem, and doesn't whine. Leave all policies out of it. He's not a leader and is not someone I'd care to work for.

With respect,
Charles1952

reply posted on 20-9-2012 @ 12:01 AM by Blaine91555

reply to post by Flatfish

I have no idea who is right or wrong. I think the real issue for me is the lack of transparency.

All anyone ever had to do was release the documents. Obama using his Presidential Privileged was pretty bad.

This may be true, or may be a coverup and the only way anyone will know is if all the requested documents are provided unredacted.

reply posted on 20-9-2012 @ 12:19 AM by bigfatfurrytexan

Originally posted by Blaine91555
reply to post by Flatfish

I have no idea who is right or wrong. I think the real issue for me is the lack of transparency.

All anyone ever had to do was release the documents. Obama using his Presidential Privileged was pretty bad.

This may be true, or may be a coverup and the only way anyone will know is if all the requested documents are provided unredacted.

You know, I hear that they have this scheduled right after the big "Flight of the Pigs" that is set to take place over the frozen tundras of hell.

reply posted on 20-9-2012 @ 12:25 AM by GoOfYFoOt

Originally posted by Flatfish

Originally posted by charles1952
I don't know what Issa's claims were, but I know he asked for an independent counsel to investigate. Obama said no and had the Justice Department investigate the boss of the Justice Department.

If this were some other subject, wouldn't ATSers be screaming "Cover Up?"

You're quite right and yes they will, but that won't change the truth, now will it? Like I said, I'm sure this won't be the last we hear of this "pin-the-tail-on-Obama" witch hunt led by Darrell Issa, but it's a start in the right direction.

You do realize that things didn't start getting explosive with this investigation until AFTER Holder and Obama, started with the delays, denials and finally the 1,000's of blacked out pages that were subpoenaed, right?

edit on 9/20/2012 by GoOfYFoOt because: I can...

reply posted on 20-9-2012 @ 01:29 AM by Pervius

Originally posted by GoOfYFoOt

You do realize that things didn't start getting explosive with this investigation until AFTER Holder and Obama, started with the delays, denials and finally the 1,000's of blacked out pages that were subpoenaed, right?

The "Fast and Furious Scandal" is merely to get you to not notice the BIG scandal. President Bill Clinton put sanctions on China for selling arms to Iran. Those sanctions stopped chinese norinco rifles from being imported into America....and America can't sell arms to China.

Obama got the US State Department to declare the military's LRAD "Not A Weapon", so Obama could sell it to China. Obama sold a military weapon to China.

Since Obama got the US State Department to declare LRAD "Not A Weapon".....think you could buy it?

Fat chance....it's a weapon.

reply posted on 20-9-2012 @ 05:20 AM by xuenchen

It also seems that the report is not as complete as it should be.

That alone indicates a possible cover up in itself.

(CNSNews.com) - The report on Operation Fast and Furious released today by the Justice Department's Office of Inspector General says a member of the White House National Security staff declined to be interviewed for the inspector general's investigation and that the White House itself did not produce internal documents for the investigation because the White House said it was "beyond the purview" of the inspector general.

DOJ Fast-and-Furious Report: WH Aide Declined Interview With IG; 'White House Did Not Produce Any Internal White House Communications'

Holder and Obama are still not in the clear

reply posted on 20-9-2012 @ 11:19 AM by GoOfYFoOt

Originally posted by Pervius

Originally posted by GoOfYFoOt

You do realize that things didn't start getting explosive with this investigation until AFTER Holder and Obama, started with the delays, denials and finally the 1,000's of blacked out pages that were subpoenaed, right?

The "Fast and Furious Scandal" is merely to get you to not notice the BIG scandal. President Bill Clinton put sanctions on China for selling arms to Iran. Those sanctions stopped chinese norinco rifles from being imported into America....and America can't sell arms to China.

Obama got the US State Department to declare the military's LRAD "Not A Weapon", so Obama could sell it to China. Obama sold a military weapon to China.

Since Obama got the US State Department to declare LRAD "Not A Weapon".....think you could buy it?

Fat chance....it's a weapon.

Interesting...
Do you have links to the information you are describing?
I was aware of the SKS issue, (worked at an FFL) which caused the drastic price increases, on a once fairly inexpensive rifle. 200-300% price increase is a big jump for a gun that shoots the same round as the AK, but with less reliability or accuracy.
As for the Long Range Acoustic Device, that's crazy. I want to read more on it. Sound is definitely capable of being a weapon. It can literally kill you. I've never had a LRAD pointed at me, but I have been subjected to 160 decibels (Dbs) in a very confined airtight space. It lasted for exactly 1 second. And felt like an eternity. Imagine an invisible force trying to crush you from all directions. When this level of pressure is active, all of the air inside your lungs is forced out and it is IMPOSSIBLE to inhale. Your diaphram is incapable of overcoming it and you suffocate and die.
And at even higher Db levels, as what the LRAD is purported to achieve, it does even worse things to your internal organs...

reply posted on 21-9-2012 @ 12:13 AM by xuenchen

Now a bit more emphasis on what Wasn't investigated....

(CNSNews.com) – The White House’s refusal to release communications related to the Fast and Furious gun-walking program and the refusal of a White House official to be interviewed about the matter “made it impossible” for the inspector general (IG) of the Justice Department to “pursue that aspect of the case,” the IG, Michael Horowitz, testified.....

IG: White House ‘Made it Impossible’ to Pursue Lead in Fast and Furious Probe

As usual, they left the big stones unturned.

reply posted on 21-9-2012 @ 01:03 AM by sad_eyed_lady