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The Great UFO Cover Up? : Berwyn Mountains, Wales, Jan 1974

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posted on Feb, 14 2017 @ 05:09 AM

originally posted by: hutch622
a reply to: Lagomorphe

You are welcome



posted on Feb, 14 2017 @ 04:58 PM
a reply to: ctj83

I don't know the exact reference but this map of the supposed landing site may be of use:

edit on 14/2/17 by mirageman because: .

posted on Feb, 15 2017 @ 03:17 PM
a reply to: mirageman

This should work. I've got a theory to test out.

posted on Feb, 19 2017 @ 07:29 AM
a reply to: mirageman

When the story emerged in the early 1990s of a UFO 'crash' on the Berwyns, the idea quickly took off and spread. The story was originally researched by veteran Mrs Margaret Fry. In fact it was her research which in due course was hijacked by Jenny Randles once it reached the ears of BUFORA. Andy Roberts then emerged with his agenda of debunking and character assassination of anyone who believed that a UFO had ever been on the mountains, let alone whether one crashed or not.

The crash scenario was disinformation. There was never a crash. There was a resurgence in interest in what exactly did happen on the evening of the 23rd of Jan' '74 and that was when the debunkers surfaced. Andy Roberts lied through his teeth and relied on associates to withhold documents and disrupt access to same as all the documents he ever referred to which he accessed, actually told a very different story. Essentially, he took official documents and produced an alternative to what was genuinely known in order to undermine the idea of any extraterrestrial visitation. In one part of his classic debunking tome, he insisted that the concept of the object seen by Mrs Pat Evans and daughters wasn't seen as a UFO until the 1990s and he used the time difference and a genuine RAF trainer plane crash in Feb' '82 which he lied over and over about its status and importance, to claim the locals were just plain wrong. In fact, the kids in the playground of Ysgol y Berwyn in Bala (the local secondary school) were joking about little green men and flying saucers the very next day after the event. Of course in his infinite arrogance, he forgot to consider the first language was Welsh not English and so missed loads of pertinent information. He did however consider the native tongue when trying to character assassinate the locals as some sort of village idiots because many struggled to speak English.

Tony Dodd and Margaret Fry were given mainly anonymous information supporting a crash scenario. Tony Dodd especially as he was actively publishing stuff. Tony Dodd's flaw was that he'd not dismiss anything even when it was proven beyond doubt to be false. In the case of the Berwyn event, he was smart enough to realise that chunks of the info' he received simply didn't add up. One only needs to know a minimum of three irrefutable facts about a case and anything not fitting in is immediately suspect. Witness statements, clearly contradicted any attempt to write off the event as some sort of natural or man made event. This bothered Tony Dodd and by 1996, he was querying the crash claim. This among other things resulted in Margaret Fry receiving a piece of metal in the post purporting to come from the crash. This again was disinfo' and testing in two different lab's confirmed the metal as bog standard aluminium.

There was an active attempt to keep the crash scenario alive.

In 1996, a guy called John Williams turned up out of the blue and who by 1997 had approached Margaret Fry with an incredible story of how the UFO came to crash on the Berwyns, but the story was flawed from the start as it simply didn't fit with the known facts. Essentially John Williams, also known as JW or JW Conway, titles placed on him by Russ Kellett who enters the scene later, told Margaret Fry that a military operation had taken place in the Irish Sea off the North Wales coast, where naval vessels were hunting UFOs hiding out on the sea bed. An altercation took place when two UFOs were forced out of the sea by depth charging and illumination by 'photo flash' flares. The fact that both these items were deployed within a couple of miles of the coast seemed to result in no one seeing or hearing anything. Later when this was pointed out, Russ Kellett received an anonymous call from some guy called 'Jacko' who claimed to have seen the event close to Ynys Seiriol.

The UFOs were flushed, one set about attacking the ships and in retaliation, itself was hit. It limped across Anglesey, changed course when intercepted by jets from presumably RAF Valley and crossed the Menai Strait, following a course of roughly the current A5. Close to Capel Curig, a jet fired upon the UFO hitting it. Despite it being dark (circa 20.30 hrs), in an extremely sparsely populated area, anonymous witnesses told JW who passed it on to Margaret Fry, that the UFO dripped liquid metal and had in fact downed one of the pursuing jets, it crashing near Capel Curig. Yet another covert clean up that no one saw. The stricken UFO crashed near Llandrillo.

Of course, Llandrillo was only in the story because it was the nearest village to the alleged crash site and for that reason became a focal point and an access point to part of the range for Police and military. Anyone who knows where Pat Evans was on the B 4391 road when she saw her object, will immediately know that the object was some miles from Llandrillo and also, could not possibly be seen by anyone in the village due to the undulating terrain. Simple lines of site from multiple random places in the little valley Llandrillo nestles in demonstrate this.

JW's story revolved around five unidentified men who while travelling home from a meeting of sorts in Bala, discovered the UFO being recovered by the military aside the road on the outskirts of Llandrillo. They investigated matters thereafter and discovered the military operation in the Irish Sea. The story was flawed because everyone wrongly focussed on Llandrillo. This was compounded by people like Jenny Randles who claimed that the Moel Ty Uchaf stone circle above Llandrillo provided unusually large readings on a Geiger counter. The Press picked up on this and linked her kindergarten standard claims with Trawsfynydd Nuclear Power Station and invented a Leukaemia cluster for headlines. All this focus and subversion by the likes of Andy Roberts placed the crashed UFO within hundreds of yards of the village. There was a concerted effort to divert attention from Pat Evans' location 5 miles away to Llandrillo. To maintain the 5 witness story, the UFO had to be where it would fit the scenario.

Margaret Fry was having none of it and nor was anyone else who JW approached. The story was so flawed it was laughable. Tony Dodd produced his book Alien Investigator and therein he again drew attention to the evidence which didn't support a crash. Things were then stepped up.

Russ Kellett came on the scene in 1999 and was the bottom of the pile in a list of people approached by JW trying to push his disinfo'. Kellett wanting to be some hero swallowed the bait everyone else laughed at. However, the story changed somewhat. The location at Llandrillo was now discredited, because even a blind man could see that the UFO could be no where near Llandrillo. So the version given to Russ Kellett was altered and a field near Llandderfel was chosen as the crash spot for the new version. That is the location in the image above, an image made by me and taken from a website without credit!!!!

I'll continue this in another window as I can't type any more characters????

posted on Feb, 19 2017 @ 08:11 AM
Continued from above!

Russ Kellett had made a DVD aided by JW which he called Dragon Lights and it was in that film which I got a copy of, that Russ Kellett showed the field. It had been edited to deny the viewer the info' that the field was separated from the road by the River Dee and the access to the field was incapable of anything wider than a farm tractor, yet JW and Kellett claimed the military were all over the field, recovered live and dead aliens and removed the stricken craft on a lorry. The access to the field is via a narrow track. It is bordered by the River Dee, a few yards of road and the former railway line to Bala from Corwen. Nothing in the claim about the UFO being in that field could be true. Also, the UFO was described by JW and Kellett at different times as being a disc and a cylinder.

The story then evolved a trifle into the actual Berwyn UFO being a second UFO going to the aid of the one crashed in that field. Strange then, that the rescuing UFO was still over four miles away, the military went unseen by anyone from Llandderfel or in the Bryntirion pub which the locals walked and drove to and from and no one else came across the road block the military had in one version. JW and Kellett both fail to address how Pat Evans drove from Llandderfel to the spot on the Berwyns where she discovered the object without seeing said recovery operation or experiencing any road block aside the field, as she went that way to her vantage point.

JW in 1999 told Kellett that Holyhead Coastguard Station had info' for him which would prove the military operation at sea to be real. Kellett contacted HHCG stn and he then received the notorious letter claiming a photo flash exercise had taken place that night off the North Wales coast, originating from the Jurby bombing range in the Isle of Man. Kellett thought he had the Holy Grail. He got that dated April 2nd 2000. By 2001, JW was back in contact with Margaret Fry, telling her Kellett had proof the event was real. She still didn't buy into it JW still wanted Margaret Fry to take the crash scenario on board as she at the time was the premiere researcher of that case. She had clout and influence and she was the target to accept the crash bull# and then push it into the UFO community.

in 2002, I started to collaborate with Margaret Fryv and between us, we trawled everything she had. We took only the things we could prove then looked at what fitted and what did not. It didn't take long to start dismantling the disinfo' At this point, JW disappears off the scene, though he's still about, lurking. Andy Roberts intensifies his abuse towards Margaret Fry and I then started unravelling his network of lies. I published his deceit and subversion in volume 1 issue 4 of UFO Matrix magazine and then I got involved with Richard D. Hall. When his documentary came out, Roberts vanishes from any public involvement with the Berwyn case.

While trawling Margaret Fry's records, I learned of Mike Saville's involvement. I tracked him down as Margaret Fry had lost contact with him after a home move. He came back to Llandderfel where I had the opportunity to meet him and other witnesses who saw the UFO arrive then land from their elevated position above Llandderfel. From his former home, it was then easy to draw a line straight out towards the mountain which with good fortune crossed the line of sight of Pat Evans and it was then a simple matter to pin down to within a few hundred square yards, where the UFO landed.

There was no crash. The UFO landed at about 21.20 and departed at about 22.10, a few minutes after Pat Evans left the scene. She has remarked how she learned of its departure just minutes after her leaving for home, something she regrets. The departing UFO was witnessed passing quite slowly by two known witnesses from Llangynog on the eastern flank of Cader Berwyn, a village on the same B 4391 road.

The Maritime and Coastguard Agency has now cut me off claiming vexation, but it only did that because I published my Youtube vids on the ongoing events. I got the MCA/HHCG to admit that the letter sent to Kellett wasn't official and in fact, it was removed from 'official' files soon after being sent to Kellett, and hidden away in a scrap book. It was however resurrected as an official document whenever anyone enquired after it. It was however created with an altered letterhead/logo format, it was illiterate and the typeface was not standard. This was all to defend the MCA if its purported legitimacy was exposed, which it has.

MCA has never admitted its involvement with JW although I've linked JW to HHCG staff. Nor has it admitted to the validity or not of the letter. It won't be drawn on it. What is known, is that it was never an official document and it is my assertion that it was deliberately constructed as it was to get HHCG off the hook if they were implicated, by for instance claiming it was done by a former member of staff as a joke because it was UFO related. A prank on Kellett! In truth, the station Manager one Raymond Carson, now retired, oversaw the letter on all occasions that I'm aware of and he was the one bringing it out of hiding to be present officially when it suited.

As for the military exercise, the weather was so bad, that only a handful of hours were logged in the use of the Jurby bombing range (spelled Jerby in that letter
) throughout January and it certainly was impossible for helicopters to fly as claimed by Kellett via anonymous info' of course. Also, no warship can get within 10 miles of the North Wales coast let alone depth charge, yet, the tide was out when JW and Kellett claims the action was taking place off the east coast of Anglesey. That also undermines 'Jacko' who was on a fishing boat and had a grand stand view of the exchange of fire between Humans and ET.

posted on Feb, 19 2017 @ 08:27 AM
a reply to: draknoir2

Peter Glynne is not a Llandrillo resident and as I've described elsewhere, he is focussing on Landrillo rather than the known UFO landing site several miles away.

36 secs in he mentions lights beyond the forest. He is referring to the conifer plantation in the background which is Cefn Pen Llety and it wasn't forested at all in 1974. Though the lights seen above the ridge line were from the lads out hunting that night. Andrew Roberts knew this, but moved them over 3 miles to the area Pat Evans saw her object, so he could blame their light on what she saw. He'd also previously after reading their Police statement, claimed they were camping out and Pat Evans saw their illuminated tent. He quietly changed his version when he realised the lads had lied to the cops as to why they were hunting there - unlicensed gun!

42 secs in. That is the telephone box in Llandrillo. Pat Evans rang from home in Llandderfel three miles away.

55 secs in. The POlice accepted Pat Evans' offer of medical assistance, but did not tell her where to go. Locals at Llandrillo having experienced an earth tremor and noticing the hunter's light beam above Cefn Pen Llety assumed an aircraft had crashed. Despite a Police search above the village and after a major incident log was opened and after calling for a RAF search and rescue team (but keeping the local one out of the picture), the Police did not tell her where to attend. She chose of her own volition to go up to the high point of the B4391 to see what if anything could be seen. It was then she discovered her object.

The whole clip is infactual.

posted on Feb, 19 2017 @ 12:35 PM
a reply to: ScottGogleddCymru

Excellent posts!!

posted on Feb, 19 2017 @ 12:44 PM
a reply to: ScottGogleddCymru

Does JW have another ufology links? Is JW Conway so called becuase of his location? Are you aware of the Beatles memorabilia links with one Larry Warren and Sacha Christies allegations?

Did you ever identify if the so called turning circle actually was?

Finally, I think one of your blogs may have been hacked (Conway something). It has posts on each major character then the final page is you admitting Russ was right and there is an alien base.
edit on 19-2-2017 by ctj83 because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 19 2017 @ 09:22 PM
Thanks for taking the time and effort Scott to post all that, much appreciated.

posted on Feb, 20 2017 @ 05:50 AM
a reply to: ctj83

JW appeared out of no where. He claimed to Margaret Fry that he'd been involved in Ufology for years, but no one knew of him. He'd seemingly not been involved with any groups etc. He appeared soon after Tony Dodd published information querying the concept of a UFO crash and JW's sole interest within the subject has been to promote a crash scenario. He was almost rabid in his attempts to sell that version of events into the UFO community.

As soon as Margaret Fry refuted his ongoing claim that the crash scenario was real and that Russ Kellett had obtained 'proof', he vanishes off the scene, but is still lurking in the background today.

Russ Kellett stuck to the belief he had documentary proof of a naval operation, but he didn't any longer have at least publicly, the support of John Williams. As more info' came to light which undermined the validity of that letter, Kellett has drifted from the Berwyn scene and is more preoccupied lately with convincing himself he hasn't been shafted by Larry Warren. It seems Russ Kellett is gullible in many spheres.

Incidentally, Kellett did correspond with HHCG stn several times. Upon receiving info' from JW to contact Holyhead Coast Guard Stn, he claims he first approached the stn in writing, using a friend's name and address, not his own. Both he and his 'friend' resided in Bradford at that point. There was a delay of sorts thereafter, as clearly, someone in HHCG stn was expecting a letter from Russ Kellett, not anyone else. Russ has claimed that he received a phone call from a HHCG staff member even though he'd not supplied a number and was encouraged to contact them in his own name, which he later did. Then and only then, but after some delay, did he receive that letter of April 2nd 2000. Only he received the info'

He later moved to Filey where he still resides. He wrote back to HHCG unexpectedly as in transit, he lost his letter. There was some confusion, as no one could find the original of which Kellett had a signed copy. The reason it couldn't be found was because it wasn't filed officially where any staff member could find it. It was hidden in a scrapbook and was retrieved when needed by the stn manager Raymond Carson, who seemingly oversaw all enquiries about its involvement in the Jan '74 UFO event.

As regards Larry Warren and Sacha Christie's allegations, I've only been following the event though I have a weather eye on matters as Russ Kellett is in the mix and there is the possibility that this whole UFO debacle is part of a loosely connected network to disrupt Ufology, which has been in operation for decades. Robbins has divorced himself from Warren (book promoting the RF case), Lumley has divorced Kellett (book promoting the Berwyn naval shoot out/crash case). Margaret Fry and Kellett both being sent pieces of metal allegedly from the Berwyn UFO crash. There are common elements throughout these and possibly other cases - I've recently become aware of someone receiving metal from RF!!!

The whole thing stinks. Wave after wave of disinfo' to lead researchers astray and tie up their time and money as well as character assassinating them. Which brings me to 'my' apparent hacked blog.

The blog isn't mine. I'm aware of it and others. The psychotic moron behind it is Darren Perks who appeared some years ago, latching himself onto animal mutilation expert Phil Hoyle. There is no one in the UK who knows more about the A M subject than Phil Hoyle. Phil's research went beyond the livestock/wild animal/human abuse with which most are familiar. There is a wider and deeper military involvement and exploitation of a real subject. Perks turns up and in due course starts to covertly steal Phil Hoyle's research. Perks has established dozens of fake profiles across social media. He has set up fake email addresses in Phil's name and others and he tried to use these to extract information from research colleagues. When he was rumbled, he turned nasty and started sending out abusive fake emails to researchers across the Globe. Anyone who has upset him, like I have, has been targeted. Unfortunately for Darren Perks, he's a totally idiot who doesn't join all the dots and he has made multiple mistakes which identify him quite quickly whenever he pops up.

I will put it on record here, that if anyone sees anything anywhere where I Scott Felton or Phil Hoyle has retracted anything, then it will be fake and please do draw my attention to it.

Perks has impersonated dozens of Ufology 'names' including Nick Pope. He often posts stuff relating to the Cosford UFO which he has tried to make his own like Kellett tried to make the Berwyn case his own, and then creates new and existing fake profiles to boost himself. He is a wanted man in the United States for impersonating a Police Officer as he attempted to boost himself as some Ufological martyr by standing up to the Authorities when on his road trip.

He started seeing a girl who was a depressant in Shrewsbury and her father gave Perks a job. It was on the firm's computer he created dozens of fake profiles, web pages etc. From what I can gather, Perks had to flee Shrewsbury and he turned up in Dumfries & Galloway. The girl's life he ruined in Shrewsbury put her in a psychiatric ward for a while. She lost the plot when his double life of psychosis emerged.

In Scotland, he attached himself to a girl there with an autistic kid. He promised her the earth, but he was simply exploiting her for a roof over his head while he hid. And don't forget, Perks was instrumental in parasitising Liverpool based show Planet X, where he with the full support of hosts Dave Stretch and Neil Atkinson, gave away confidential information in breach of agreements and copyright. I and others were instrumental in bringing down Planet X which was a front to conduit information. It was a front. Dave Stretch then set about trying to get hold of me, contacting friends and former addresses of mine hoping to talk me round so they could save the show. It is not my policy however to negotiate with wannabe thugs and subversive elements. The show suffered a series of technical issues and went off the air. Bauer Media which owned the radio station moved swiftly to pull the plug on the show.

Going back to Scotland, Perks got himself a job with Scott Country International based in Castle Douglas and soon after, dumped said girl who it seemed believed she was going to marry Perks. She too was left devastated and the child mentally scarred. Perks then set about becoming the frontman for the company's promotional videos on Youtube and it wasn't long before Perks was again attacking the UFO community. Scott Country International (SCI) specialised in night vision technology and following Perks' every move, it soon became obvious that he was plotting to fake the capture on a night vision camera of a feral big cat - a European Lynx. A quick check of a local wildlife park a few miles away revealed that Perks had lied to the proprietor. He sought consent to put a camera in the pen of a captive lynx for study, but unbeknown to the park staff, he was plotting to use the footage to claim an SCI model of camera had captured the first confirmed footage of a feral big cat at large in Britain. I informed the wildlife park about Perks' antics and the plan collapsed.

Run out of characters again! Continued below.

posted on Feb, 20 2017 @ 06:09 AM
a reply to: ScottGogleddCymru

Continued from above...............

Perks was seemingly in charge of phone calls and mail. I know that several independent sources contacted SCI about Perks' double life of insanity, but he intercepted most of it and blagged the rest. However, he attended an event at the NEC in Birmingham, leaving the SCI office/shop in the High Street in Castle Douglas unguarded and it seems one or more claims against Perks got through to the company Directors. Perks was booted from the event in Birmingham forthwith, the day before the whole event was due to close.

He is still at it today. He is constantly filing faked UFO reports especially to MUFON, often using stolen images - like Andy Roberts, he relies on people not checking stuff out and accepting on face value. On one of the more recent blogs credited to me, there is a stolen image from an Italian Facebook profile. The text is stolen from another website genuinely portraying events and the retraction by me and apology to all the debunking scumbags and idiots is made up. All by Darren Perks.

He has also recently embarked on Tweeting as @ the realDarrenPerks in an attempt to claim all the other Darren Perks stuff isn't his. He's a total woman abusing lunatic anyway, but his motivations for trying to disrupt researchers is sadly very real. He has also been claiming via several faked profiles that the old Darren Perks is some secret agent and that is why he is off the scene, but has been seen in uniform at military bases etc. All rubbish of course and remarkable too as not so long ago, he tried to fake his own death to shake off his past and reinvent himself.

All these aberrations infecting Ufology are what they are - Warren might be a fraud and conman, Kellett might be a gullible idiot, Andy Roberts might be an egomaniac but Perks is different. He is a very sick, psychotic, mentally deranged individual.

Any claims anywhere on line etc where someone seemingly backtracks on previous claims and out of character should immediately arouse suspicion and be checked out.

posted on Feb, 20 2017 @ 06:20 AM
a reply to: ctj83

Missed something there. J W Conway is one of Kellett's descriptions for this guy. I actually know where he lives though I've never spoken with him. There may be some connection with Conway or even the river of that name or it might be something else. Nothing so far has linked him to that town, so not sure.

posted on Feb, 20 2017 @ 02:30 PM
a reply to: ScottGogleddCymru

Thanks Scott. I've dropped you a message.

Do you know the year that Kellet first started putting out JWs story?

posted on Feb, 20 2017 @ 02:42 PM
a reply to: ScottGogleddCymru

Thanks for your comprehensive overview Scott. Apologies for the oversight and not crediting your site for the map above. Let's put that right. As anyone interested in the case should make themselves familiar with Scott's and Margaret Fry's work on it.

Please see :

posted on Feb, 21 2017 @ 02:20 AM
a reply to: ctj83

Kellett seems to appear according to Margaret Fry's diaries in 1998, but JW didn't really involve him until mid 1999. Kellett seemingly contacted Margaret Fry at the behest of JW which suggests JW was already known to Kellett, but this is still unclear. Kellett corresponded with Mrs Fry and she shared some info' with him. When she realised he had swallowed the photo flash bait and had started claiming her research was actually his, she demanded he retract it. He then rang her up and reduced her to tears, with a torrent of abuse and threats to pay her a visit and beat her up. He has made similar threats to her periodically and has threatened me too and others. Unfortunately for him, he's just an idiot who couldn't punch his way out of a paper bag and he'd run a mile if I confronted him.

Kellett was promoting the JW story as I say, certainly by mid 1999. He made several attempts to talk Margaret Fry round to accepting the crash scenario as portrayed by JW but she was having none of it. She was the target all the time. Probably as a last resort, Kellett was enlisted to take up the gauntlet and he became ultimately the sole promoter of the JW story.

Gradually, Kellett was fed tons of 'supporting info'', but all from anonymous sources. At one point, he and JW organised a public meeting in a hotel in Bala although JW was in the shadows. A soldier involved in the clean up of Berwyn crash debris was to turn up. Of course he didn't and having accused the locals of mass lying because his story was rubbish, they almost lynched him and the meeting went into meltdown.

Shortly after, JW contacted Kellett and apologised, telling him the guy turned up at his home instead, but Kellett never met a single person JW ever referred to or a single person who offered up any evidence. Everything came to Kellett via JW.

Russ Kellett never checked out a single thing to verify if what was claimed in the letter was actually true in any respect. All the letter did, was add substance to JW's claim. The letter is readily available to read on line. There were regular photo flash bombing exercises held at the Jurby range on the north west coast of the Isle of Man. The range is now defunct after a sustained campaign against it by the IoM branch of the Celtic League. Because of that organisation's opposition to the military presence, no one farted on that range without someone recording it, so from that and other IoM sources, again, it seems what did on occasion go on at Jurby didn't always match up with claimed events elsewhere!

The Jurby Range came into the picture just a couple of days after the Berwyn event. The press was speculating on events that night on the 23rd, because of reported aerial lights and the substantial earth tremor which occurred at 20.48 hrs. The Liverpool Daily Post published a story if I recall correctly, 2 days after the event, then mentioning a 'possible' photo flash exercise at the IoM. This was remarkable as for at least a whole day, neither the Police, Military or Coastguard failed to mention this. They didn't mention it because it seems it didn't happen.

The Authorities were looking for an excuse to fob off the Public and it took them over 24 hours to think of one. Even the Police used the terminology 'it may have been a photo flash exercise at the IoM'. At the time, everyone merely suggested it might have been and that seemed to pacify everyone. Surely, the Military, Police and Coastguard would all know? But not once did they confirm the reality of such an event.

Dr Roger Musson in later years, referred to this alleged exercise as fact in his tome - the Enigmatic Bala Earthquake of 23 January 1974. Musson of course is a side kick of Andy Roberts. Some years ago I filed an FOI to the British Geological Survey citing documents Andy Roberts openly referred to. Musson turned out to be a friend of Roberts and was in charge of all the material held by the BGS about events that night in North Wales. Musson and others told me that no such documents existed and that dragged on for almost two years until I filed an official complaint against Musson for obstruction and subversion of an FOI. An internal investigation then occurred. Musson was exonerated via blaming my FOI on being unclear!!!??? and then I received various documents and maps which Roberts had previously used to invent alternative scenarios. That was the start of Roberts' downfall in that respect. Musson tried to pass off the suggestion of a photo flash event as fact via citing newspaper articles.

It seems that in the mid 1990s when the crash scenario was being challenged by Tony Dodd, someone looked at the events that night and started to compile this naval operation scene. However, the existence of any military event that night centred on the Jurby Range was unproven yet the JW scenario relied upon it. It also relied on no one checking up. So essentially, in 1996 when Tony Dodd first published his doubts, JW appears out of no where with this amazing story built on a foundation of the existence of a possible photo flash exercise in the IoM that night.

JW claims it as fact and Kellett has promoted it as fact. Someone even managed to convince Russ Kellett that photo flash bombs sank, then exploded and illuminated the sea bed. He clearly doesn't grasp ocean science or photography flares.

It is also fact, that the letter to Russ Kellett claims log books were consulted to verify the exercise. There are problems with this. HHCG & MCA refused to confirm to me and indeed offered me two conflicting pieces of info' of how long log books are held for. One said 20 years and HHCG stn manager said 25, then all logs are destroyed. It seems it was 20 years, but Carson realising my approach insisted against policy that it was 25 years in order to suggest his station still held a log book covering January 1974, which could be consulted (just) in early 2000. So if policy was followed, HHCG could not have had such a log book to consult. If it did have such a book, why that one, six years after it should have been destroyed? There would have been many with ongoing destruction of a year's worth every 12 months. And if by some chance such a log book existed, where is it now? Of course, miraculously, HHCG can produce a faked content letter to Kellett, but can't produce the log book it allegedly consulted.

It is my contention that no log book did exist at HHCG stn and the claim in the letter is erroneous. Citing a source that can't be confirmed. However, if such a log book did somehow exist in early 2000, my money is on a scheduled photo flash event being recorded with start and end time (all Irish Sea stations would have been informed), but it didn't take place and that would explain to a point why the Authorities were at pains to confirm rather than suggest such an event took place. After all, IoM residents would know, so the Authorities simply could not lie that an exercise did take place at Jurby. By suggesting, they always had a 'get out of jail free' card.

posted on Feb, 21 2017 @ 02:24 AM
a reply to: mirageman

Don't take it personally. Darren Perks has stolen hundreds of images from around the world for all sorts of nefarious activities, I'm a trifle annoyed about him! Better to credit so thieves like Perks are isolated if you get my drift?

posted on Feb, 21 2017 @ 02:54 AM
a reply to: ctj83

I replied to your message, which promptly vanished and was then presented with a notice that I can't reply to private messages only from Admins???

Not sure what happened there! Let me know if you received my reply please.

posted on Feb, 21 2017 @ 03:34 AM
a reply to: ScottGogleddCymru

I'm afraid not Scott.

You might want to take a look at a theory I've investigated for a while. It involves technology to control and force the rentry of soviet satellites.

- APEN told Randles that RFI was essentially this
- Halt told Randles early on that RFI might be this
- Brenda Butler's Karan RFI informant said RFI was a captured satellite

Here is where it gets interesting. The Berwyn informants that approached Fry, Hooper, Redfern apparently told Hooper (after the metal fragments) that Berwyn might have been an anticipated and prepared for capture of a soviet satellite.

In all the big cases the landings can be predicted and are anticipated. I'd also suggest that the APEN group that first 'blew' the whistle on Berwyn were the same ones involved in the leak of debris and supporting the informers that Redfern, Hooper etc were approached by.

I hope that is of some use.
edit on 21-2-2017 by ctj83 because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 21 2017 @ 11:17 AM
a reply to: ctj83

I'll give a little overview of Hooper.

it was he who contacted Margaret Fry in the early 90s, telling her that he had metal fragments secreted away by an airman involved in the Berwyn crash clean up. Now Hooper was putting it about that he belonged to some UFo research outfit that no one knew anything about, and that after receiving the fragments (plural) from this anonymous airman because they were getting too hot to handle, Hooper had them tested. He has not to my knowledge produced any public results, but he has claimed he compiled a report which was sent to the government or military or suchlike - I don't have the exact details to hand and am typing this from memory.

Like so many others, he refuses to show any results etc publicly. However, he was booted from a group in Bath or Bristol for allegedly thieving information from other members. I had a long telephone conversation a few years ago with a guy called Dennis Plunkett who told me of Hooper's activities and their parting.

Now, Hooper filed a report claiming that the metal was nothing important. Despite having allegedly done that, he still decided to contact Margaret Fry and relate the crash story to her. At the time everyone believed there had been a crash and so Margaret Fry was interested in the metal recovery claim. Hooper then posted a fragment to her. From her diaries, Hooper claimed that the spooked airman posted the metal pieces to him disguised in a flower pot/pot plant. He also claimed he'd sent other fragments to other UFO enthusiasts, but no one has ever come forward to verify this and if someone did now, they'd have to produce the fragment to see if it matches chemically the piece still owned by Mrs Fry.

Hooper denied to me anything about the pot plant business and also, that he'd sent samples elsewhere, yet Margaret Fry had entries at the time recording his then initial claims. It seems what he was doing was putting disinformation into the UFO community. After all, if he concluded it was nothing and filed a report to Authority reiterating that, why bother contacting any UFO researchers - the fragments would be worthless?

I believe he was attempting to just sow seeds to cause trouble, or was attempting to get Mrs Fry to promote the fragment, then when convenient publicly humiliate her or, both. It might be noteworthy that Hooper was regarded by Margaret Fry as aggressive and highly strung and I tested this at one time, by suggesting he came from South Wales. He took exception to that and concentrated on it to the exclusion of everything else, trying to berate me. Of course he was being tested to confirm what others had said about him. He wasn't bright enough to grasp that.

Personally, until he produces something publicly about what he has claimed in the past, I think he is some sort of debunker and not a very good one at that. It seems to be a common theme that these characters are keen to tender at least the spectre of violence through direct threats or aggressive responses when challenged.

I don't buy into the idea of recovery of satellites at least in the Berwyn case, because anyone who actually goes to the UFO landing/crash spot call it what you will, it will be quickly noted that recovery of any object or even scattered debris is well nigh impossible. The object seen by Mrs Evans was about 1.25 miles from her position on the B4391. The terrain is a mass of sometimes deep gullies and quite impossible to get any vehicle larger than a tractor anywhere near the location. It is all footwork and slow at that. It has been a constant source of humour and irritation to me over the years about recovery claims when a field visit including a walk out across the moorland to the UFO location will soon dispel any idea of a land based recovery of anything.

Now it is theoretically possible for an object of appropriate size and weight to be airlifted off the mountain, but then there is the problem of the UFO's departure. There is also the issue of sightings thereabouts prior to the 23rd and after the 23rd, which I believe was the same object.

Whatever came down on the mid slope of Cader Berwyn, it came down of its own volition, stayed a while, then left. Again, of its own volition, though there is a school of thought that it was actually provoked into departing. My instinct leads towards intel being collected by the Military, but also because of the exposed position the UFO was using in full view of the B 4391, the aim was to 'chase it off'.

I'm not against the idea of that satellite capture technology existing and being deployed. I just don't think it fits in with the location. If a re-entry can be forced and the satellite brought to earth, I imagine there would be quite a wreckage on the ground. If the general area could be determined in advance, there are far more secluded places in Wales and indeed in the UK offering excellent access for recovery personnel and vehicles. In fact, three miles or so further north towards and below Cader Bronwen would be perfect for what you are suggesting.

Going back to Hooper, we only have his word that an airman passed those fragments on to him and he has changed his story from what he initially claimed. That undermines his entire story and he has presented nothing to substantiate his claims, not an iota. Nothing. Obviously there needs to be evidence at least, but I don't think there was any airman and he is as fictitious as JW's soldier who was to appear at a Kellett organised meeting in Bala. Hooper gave Margaret Fry a piece of aluminium just like John Williams gave Kellett a piece which I also believe is aluminium. Exact same scenario. Hooper gave Mrs Fry that metal to bolster the emerging Berwyn UFO crash belief and JW gave Kellett his sample to prop up an on going attempt to promote a Berwyn UFO crash.

posted on Feb, 21 2017 @ 11:33 AM
a reply to: ScottGogleddCymru

Just a quick note too, having re-read your post on the APEN connection/satellite recovery. I am not aware of any informant, anonymous or otherwise who ever contacted Margaret Fry and suggested the Berwyn UFO crash was a satellite. Persons with an interest in rubbishing the Berwyn event certainly published stuff claiming it might have been a satellite or a rogue missile etc, but such claims were to refute any idea of an extraterrestrial vehicle coming down.

There isn't a shred of evidence to support a crash scenario.

I've probably walked 50 miles trawling that hillside, up to my eyeballs at times in mud and freezing water. I've walked the ground at night with and without a torch and even under a full moon when no artificial light was needed at all. Any clean up of a crash of anything simply could not be done on foot and leave no trace even after all these years. Even the most expertly recovered crash leaves some trace as per the incident near Aberystwyth. Whatever that was left a right mess and though efforts were made to clean it up, the place is still littered with fragments of whatever it is that came down.

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