Violence In Middle East Will Spead to the US

Originally posted by WhiteHat
Maybe I'm not going with the stream here, but I think that this will happen anyway, sooner or later, from whatever reason. I see this "islam against western world" (or vice versa) problem like an infected wound that some day will blow out in very ugly conflict. There is no way to avoid it.

Without pointing the finger or blaming anyone, some things are not meant to work together. Those two cultures are specifically opposed. What is good for us it offends islam (freedom of speech, women rights, democracy) and their laws are offending us (Sharia, totalitarianism, no freedom of religion, persecution of women and so on.) We see how bad is becoming in Europe, and no, more tolerance is not the solution. Islam will never be a multicultural society, and we will never go back to Middle Age.

So I think, let the things fall where they may, and see how to make it on the other side. The pressure is building for way too long, and a storm is more than expected. I'm quite tired of being worry.

You just forgot that "problem" is a "problem" from 500 years ago.

For over three centuries, between 1670 and 1970, that "problem" was totally forgotten.

Obviously, "someone" with an hidden agenda decided to "ressurect" the problem since then...

Maybe with 2012 in mind...

Originally posted by GLontra

Originally posted by WhiteHat
Maybe I'm not going with the stream here, but I think that this will happen anyway, sooner or later, from whatever reason. I see this "islam against western world" (or vice versa) problem like an infected wound that some day will blow out in very ugly conflict. There is no way to avoid it.

Without pointing the finger or blaming anyone, some things are not meant to work together. Those two cultures are specifically opposed. What is good for us it offends islam (freedom of speech, women rights, democracy) and their laws are offending us (Sharia, totalitarianism, no freedom of religion, persecution of women and so on.) We see how bad is becoming in Europe, and no, more tolerance is not the solution. Islam will never be a multicultural society, and we will never go back to Middle Age.

So I think, let the things fall where they may, and see how to make it on the other side. The pressure is building for way too long, and a storm is more than expected. I'm quite tired of being worry.

You just forgot that "problem" is a "problem" from 500 years ago.

For over three centuries, between 1670 and 1970, that "problem" was totally forgotten.

Obviously, "someone" with an hidden agenda decided to "ressurect" the problem since then...

Maybe with 2012 in mind...

Yeah, but from 500 years ago, until recently we didn't need oil from them, and they weren't 1.2 billion souls, mostly hungry and poor, watching our spoiled way of life....
They say it takes two for a fight

I do NOT watch MSM...however...I had to see what Hillary and Obama had to say to Rome, Shawn, glen, Chris...( I hope all names correct) and omg....I won't post the speech because Im lazy...go to msnbc or fox to see the speech. I want to punch Hillary and spit on Obama....

They sound soooooo self- righteous!!!

Hillary stated..."all over an Internet video that we had nothing to do with!"

And that's all she said about it....nothing about..we don't condone it...we will not aire this, we don't agree...

We're sorry for idiots that said this about you...we DO NOT CONDONE THE MOVIE!!! Instead, it was a scolding for killing our guys, and we will show you because we're the most powerful country ever!!! So back up jack....

These people are not Americans...they think different, they eat different, they talk different, their education is different, their clothing is different, their beliefs are different!!!! Until big bad America realizes this...we will always have conflict w/ the middle eastern people. Besides, we're not there for their rights anyways...nor should we be!!! We are there for their resources...it's all about money and power....that's it, that's all...they are sick of us and our self- righteous stealing ass's and I don't blame them because I'm sick of these power houses too!!!

Originally posted by WhiteHat

Originally posted by GLontra

Originally posted by WhiteHat
Maybe I'm not going with the stream here, but I think that this will happen anyway, sooner or later, from whatever reason. I see this "islam against western world" (or vice versa) problem like an infected wound that some day will blow out in very ugly conflict. There is no way to avoid it.

Without pointing the finger or blaming anyone, some things are not meant to work together. Those two cultures are specifically opposed. What is good for us it offends islam (freedom of speech, women rights, democracy) and their laws are offending us (Sharia, totalitarianism, no freedom of religion, persecution of women and so on.) We see how bad is becoming in Europe, and no, more tolerance is not the solution. Islam will never be a multicultural society, and we will never go back to Middle Age.

So I think, let the things fall where they may, and see how to make it on the other side. The pressure is building for way too long, and a storm is more than expected. I'm quite tired of being worry.

You just forgot that "problem" is a "problem" from 500 years ago.

For over three centuries, between 1670 and 1970, that "problem" was totally forgotten.

Obviously, "someone" with an hidden agenda decided to "ressurect" the problem since then...

Maybe with 2012 in mind...

Yeah, but from 500 years ago, until recently we didn't need oil from them, and they weren't 1.2 billion souls, mostly hungry and poor, watching our spoiled way of life....
They say it takes two for a fight

edit on 14-9-2012 by WhiteHat because: (no reason given)

Well, so you notice it's not a "religious" or "cultural" issue, but a geostrategic and economic issue.

reply to post by WhiteHat


I do not disagree with your view at all in fact I think you are on point, however, I think people who disagree with each other should be able to live along side one another based on the fact you pointed out - we both need something from each other. It is a symbiotic relationship. Obviously you see this throughout nature. We do not have to agree with them, or even like them, but going along to get along should be doable for adults. Not to mention we occupy the same space, and always will until space exploration is possible, so why NOT work towards peace, as the only other option would be that inevitably, somewhere down the line, we will just blow each other up and then neither of us will have anything.

reply to post by WhiteHat


You're 100% correct IMO. As lame as it sounds Muslims extremists remind me of the aliens in ID4...
"Peace? No Peace..."
"What do you want us to do?"
"Die."

I can't see any way they can live in harmony with any other culture, or even with each other. They simply will not tolerate any way of life but their own. And they learned to use our freedom as a weapon against us.

Interesting, though I must say that if Muslims in the U.S. start any sort of uprising the millions of Americans that are armed to the teeth won't sit idly by and allow it to happen. And, sadly I can foresee that if there begins to be any sort of suicide bombings by Islamic extremists here in the U.S. then unfortunately people that even seem to resemble someone from the middle east will be beaten up, and targeted by angry Americans. It happened after 9-11 and will happen again, but even more so if shtf here.

reply to post by PatriotGames2

Originally posted by PatriotGames2
reply to post by WhiteHat

 

... so why NOT work towards peace, as the only other option would be that inevitably, somewhere down the line, we will just blow each other up and then neither of us will have anything.

Wrong, in their eyes they will be in paradise with 72 virgins.

Originally posted by AutOmatIc
Interesting, though I must say that if Muslims in the U.S. start any sort of uprising the millions of Americans that are armed to the teeth won't sit idly by and allow it to happen. And, sadly I can foresee that if there begins to be any sort of suicide bombings by Islamic extremists here in the U.S. then unfortunately people that even seem to resemble someone from the middle east will be beaten up, and targeted by angry Americans. It happened after 9-11 and will happen again, but even more so if shtf here.

Only on your "wet dreams" the Muslims in the U.S.will start some sort of "uprising"...

reply to post by RedParrotHead


Yeah... and our 'Christian' society is ready to go to war at the drop of a hat.

We want to call ourselves Christian but none of us (well, a few of us) live by the word of Christ. If we did, we would not kill others. No matter the reason. We would assume that, "Well, kill me if you want. I will go to Heaven and live with my savior. I will not have blood on my hands or else I will not get to heaven."

But no, it's all about survival.

By the way, I do not think that there is going to be some sort of Muslim uprising. Most Muslims are peaceful and loving people and do not follow the strict Sharia Law. It is the extremists that worry me. Mostly because they are easily manipulated by people with far greater agendas in play.

However, divide and conquer is strongly at play in this country and in this world. They want all religions fighting amongst themselves, all races fighting amongst each other. I will not fall for that ploy.

I would be the first to stand with the Muslims against discrimination. Just like if I lived in the 1960's I would have been standing with my African American brothers, and in the 1940's I would have been standing with my Jewish brethren against the Nazi agenda. I do not fear death because it is my personal belief that life in the physical realm is but one aspect of our true existence.

Originally posted by PatriotGames2
reply to post by WhiteHat

 

I do not disagree with your view at all in fact I think you are on point, however, I think people who disagree with each other should be able to live along side one another based on the fact you pointed out - we both need something from each other. It is a symbiotic relationship. Obviously you see this throughout nature. We do not have to agree with them, or even like them, but going along to get along should be doable for adults. Not to mention we occupy the same space, and always will until space exploration is possible, so why NOT work towards peace, as the only other option would be that inevitably, somewhere down the line, we will just blow each other up and then neither of us will have anything.

It should be that way, in a grown ups world... but for now we don't know how to work toward peace within our own societies. Who really believe it is possible?
I don't think that we, as humanity are much better than one thousand years ago; if not with them, we fight whatever is out there, white against black, christians against jews, communists against capitalists.
Now we just came to "us against them" . And they seem to be ready for the game also. Same story, different players...

Originally posted by GLontra

Originally posted by AutOmatIc
Interesting, though I must say that if Muslims in the U.S. start any sort of uprising the millions of Americans that are armed to the teeth won't sit idly by and allow it to happen. And, sadly I can foresee that if there begins to be any sort of suicide bombings by Islamic extremists here in the U.S. then unfortunately people that even seem to resemble someone from the middle east will be beaten up, and targeted by angry Americans. It happened after 9-11 and will happen again, but even more so if shtf here.

Only on your "wet dreams" the Muslims in the U.S.will start some sort of "uprising"...

Really? In my "wet dreams"? That's a laugh. I don't want any "We Are Right" or W.A.R. any more than the next rational human being, in fact I would love to see world peace. People living along side each other, being happy, pursuing happiness...etc. And you are right. The Muslims in the U.S. will not start an "uprising"...see my quoted post as to why. It is a fact that after 9-11 people were attacked for even looking like "middle eastern terrorists"...in fact, specifically in New York City (Manhattan) all mosques, and middle eastern owned delis were surrounded by National Guard troops, police, FBI, and CIA to protect them from random attacks and for surveillance purposes to gather intelligence as to whether these people were affiliated in any way with terrorist groups. That is true, I observed it with my own eyes. For months afterwards and there is still a surveillance presence to this day at mosques and delis.

reply to post by PatriotGames2


I don't think you understand, you are an infidel. They do not want you standing with them - not the true believers, anyway. Their mission is to convert you or to kill you. The idea being that when all the infidels are gone there will be peace.

Sure, not all Muslims think this way - most of them are Muslim in name only, for tradition sake - not true believers. I like these types very much ... just like I get along with the Christmas & Easter only Christians...which are most thankfully. Christians who take their religion literally are almost as bad as the extremist Muslims, but they don't usually kill people ... unless they are doctors who give abortions.

reply to post by RedParrotHead



Trust me, I understand.

I have been criticized for having standards that are too high and unattainable. I try and believe in the good.

As you pointed out, there are extreme Christians, as well. History has taught us that they are just as willing to kill for their beliefs. Sure, recent history has seen them become more moderate, but they still exist. There are plenty of Christians out there trying to bring about Armageddon in order to usher in the Second Coming of Christ. Sounds an awful lot like the radical Muslims trying to bring forth the 12th Imam, no?

The point is that these are an incredibly small minority. But most ignorant people will point to the Quran and other religious texts and claim that Islam is inherently evil. I just do not follow this line of thinking.

Throughout the Holy Roman Empire people were murdered and tortured for believing differently, in order to secure and maintain religious and doctrinal unity. The Bible was twisted and used to justify these acts. This is happening today with the Islamic religion.

True Muslims preach peace, just as true Christians do. They would gladly have me stand with them. I know because I have Muslim friends. They are not extremists. You are right, you will not see me standing with extremists, on either side of the aisle, because most likely they will kill me. I am agnostic and therefore see extremism in general as a threat, not just from Muslims.

Everyone is forgetting, or failing to recognize one little fact. Islamic Americans have the right to peacefully assemble. But you can bet your tail, fundamental christian extremist will be there too! Hurling their brand of speech freedom too!

It's a sad state. The Islamic community cannot even come together in mass, an inalienable right, for fear of violence. It's a vicious circle. What would be better, is Americans of all faith working with Islamic Americans to show a unified front. That we can recognize each others right to a difference of opinion (religion) and still respect each other as human beings.

If Islamic American's start protesting the film here in America - why does that stop any other American, Christian or person of another belief, to join them? It's a disgusting film, and in no way, does the White House agree with or condone the film. To suggest it is either naive or trying to incite anger. The White House has no comment because it was just one aspect of a very large problem. What can we say? People have a right to their opinion, and the constitution states - religious belief is your choice.

Corporations won't let us leave the middle east. I say screw the Corporations and leave them alone.

America has a country large enough that it is completely self-sustaining. It would come at a price, a change in lifestyle. Mass transit. Recycling. But I'm game. Leave the knuckle heads alone, and come home.

This thing has spread to over 20 countries now according to the NY Times as of 15 hours ago.

20 - TWENTY ( at least) - and "they" are still claiming this is over some stupid movie trailer.

www.nytimes.com...

There is No Way this is about some stupid film. This is highly organized to goad Americans into a war (possibly by the Obama Administration - you know they always love a good new war at election time to gain support from the undecided - history repeats)

So I'll ask in this thread on topic. If war breaks out over this how do you propose to protect American citizens from possible Muslim terrorists inside of our own borders when you can't tell the good ones from the extremist Muslims?

I propose we put all Muslims in America, both visiting and Muslim American citizens in camps like we did for the Japs in WW2 - for their own safety and to better distinguish possible terrorists from the good Muslims. If you just let them roam unchecked, anyone can attack anywhere from any quarter and you won't be able to defend the American citizens. How do you defend against an enemy you can't identify?

Many people won't like my proposal above, so Tell Me. How would you do it?

reply to post by JohnPhoenix


Americans put in American concentration camps ... It was a dumb idea then and a dumber idea now. And it is about as unconstitutional as anything could be.

reply to post by JohnPhoenix


How about we first secure our borders? I don't like the concentration camp idea -- it was horrible what was done to the Japanese in America - it was also alot of the Germans. Bad, Bad idea.

Originally posted by WhiteHat

Originally posted by GLontra

Originally posted by WhiteHat
Maybe I'm not going with the stream here, but I think that this will happen anyway, sooner or later, from whatever reason. I see this "islam against western world" (or vice versa) problem like an infected wound that some day will blow out in very ugly conflict. There is no way to avoid it.

Without pointing the finger or blaming anyone, some things are not meant to work together. Those two cultures are specifically opposed. What is good for us it offends islam (freedom of speech, women rights, democracy) and their laws are offending us (Sharia, totalitarianism, no freedom of religion, persecution of women and so on.) We see how bad is becoming in Europe, and no, more tolerance is not the solution. Islam will never be a multicultural society, and we will never go back to Middle Age.

So I think, let the things fall where they may, and see how to make it on the other side. The pressure is building for way too long, and a storm is more than expected. I'm quite tired of being worry.

You just forgot that "problem" is a "problem" from 500 years ago.

For over three centuries, between 1670 and 1970, that "problem" was totally forgotten.

Obviously, "someone" with an hidden agenda decided to "ressurect" the problem since then...

Maybe with 2012 in mind...

Yeah, but from 500 years ago, until recently we didn't need oil from them, and they weren't 1.2 billion souls, mostly hungry and poor, watching our spoiled way of life....
They say it takes two for a fight

edit on 14-9-2012 by WhiteHat because: (no reason given)

Our way of life isn't spoiled, it's just modern.

We eat a lot we also supply 1/3 to 1/2 the worlds food

We use a lot of energy we supply a vast amount of that from nuclear and are making great strides in solar, wind the Hoover dam was at one point a marvel of the world

The world has limited resources, we have limited our personal population growth and so has much of the West and the East

Oil... it has led us to honestly some bad behavior, but we are building hybrid cars and they are coming down in price, there is an inevitability to our independence from the substance

We can not be held hostage by those who... Multiply endlessly, practice superstition over science, we can speak all day of the flaws of our system they are many but our system Evolves, changes it's Dogmas usually last a generation or so, religion does not change over centuries.

In the end, we will find Better ways but even this primitive "capitalism" despite it's vast flaws has to it a single solitary bit of evolution of thought... IT assumes production, it mandates civilization to exist. Religion requires the death of mankind in order to fulfill prophecy, Capitalism requires Human life to produce

Is the psuedo enslavement of people a meaningful philosophy? No. Is it kind? No. Can we do much better, Yes, oh yes we absolutely can.

But it's existence requires Mankind, it requires life to go on. It's prosperity depends upon science and understanding or it fails. It surpasses an insane set of beliefs used to rationalize and protect the mind from death with fictions of everlasting Life in which Death has no meaning. Where superstition says "The world must end in judgement for we are wicked and to be punished" Science says "the Universe is a gift we must learn to understand so we can go on here in the real world"

We must prevail against the darkness of dogma it is our only hope as a species.

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix
This thing has spread to over 20 countries now according to the NY Times as of 15 hours ago.

20 - TWENTY ( at least) - and "they" are still claiming this is over some stupid movie trailer.

www.nytimes.com...

There is No Way this is about some stupid film. This is highly organized to goad Americans into a war (possibly by the Obama Administration - you know they always love a good new war at election time to gain support from the undecided - history repeats)

So I'll ask in this thread on topic. If war breaks out over this how do you propose to protect American citizens from possible Muslim terrorists inside of our own borders when you can't tell the good ones from the extremist Muslims?

I propose we put all Muslims in America, both visiting and Muslim American citizens in camps like we did for the Japs in WW2 - for their own safety and to better distinguish possible terrorists from the good Muslims. If you just let them roam unchecked, anyone can attack anywhere from any quarter and you won't be able to defend the American citizens. How do you defend against an enemy you can't identify?

Many people won't like my proposal above, so Tell Me. How would you do it?

edit on 14-9-2012 by JohnPhoenix because: sp

Camps are ugly, they are mean and they reduce the human condition

If sadly our differences can not be resolved the answer would be deportation not prison camps

In daily life when you have "fears" or "concerns" about someone we have what is called a Writ of protection, it is a sane method, it requires simply that a person stays away.