Looks like the US Ambassador to Libya got exactly what he deserves.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by milominderbinder
...if I remember correctly from other threads you're a big believer in the Bible...aren't you?

NO. That is incorrect. I have said many times .. there isn't much of 'GOD' in the bible. (IMHO)

This was a good man who was working with the Libyans and trying to save Libyan lives.
THAT is why he was there. He was a family man and an all around nice guy.
He did nothing to 'deserve what he got'. Not a darn thing.

Did you know the guy personally?

To say he was a all round nice guy seems that you've observed him in all round situations which you could have if you knew him personally.

How do you save Libyan live by organizing airstrikes on Libyans?

Originally posted by milominderbinder
So...basically our "diplomat" was more or less a CIA operative who illegally infiltrated a sovereign government specifically with the intent of assisting a militant overthrow of Libyan government...

I guess, in sense, yes. But, methinks you'd be better off asking the Libyan people whether they appreciate his efforts, now that Qaddafi is ousted.

No offence, but I'm afraid what some Derpmerican nonentities who have a beef with how tyrants are deposed (and who are likely too lazy to even front up to a voting booth to make the infinitesimal difference their political system affords them) opines, really couldn't be more irrelevant in such circumstances.

> CIA isn't always a dirty initialism
> Only dimwits use the term 'basically' when there's clearly nothing basic about the subject matter at hand

Originally posted by wirefly

You're blaming the US for killing people when the Libyan people were killing each other? How dare we step in! How dare we try to help put an end to that! What a cruel country we are.

reply to post by stonedogdiary

 

I suppose you'll feel the same way when China or Russia steps in to correct the situation when the USA falls into civil war? I'll bet you'll be singing a different tune then. We just need to stay the hell out of their business. Every nation needs to mind their own damn business.

I agree. Every country should mind it's own damn business. If there is a dictator in charge - so what? It's the people's business to deal with it. Not some other country's government (which is probably just as bad, but less obvious about it).

reply to post by Helmkat

I'm sorry but Ambassadors come from all kinds of different backgrounds, do not set policy, do not lead rebel groups and do not torture anyone.

Thats exactly the thing that makes his background even more suspicious. According to the article, hes only been Ambassador for 4 months but it made no mention of his occupation prior to that.
He illegally entered the country, set up an HQ in some hotel and began coordinating with military and future political leaders for the rebels.
What does that sound like to you?

Anyone seen Hilary's speech? "It is a truly disgusting video" And remember her commenting on Gaddafi's death video? "We saw, we came, he died" What a horrible woman.

Originally posted by freemarketsocialist

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
reply to post by freemarketsocialist

 

CIA ?

so now we went from "more or less" to confirmed spook ?

man the innerwebs is fast

sorry if that pick takes away your war lust

I have war lust? What a joke.

Your Government is CIA genius. You think they overthrow the governments of other nations but just let their own do what it wants? yeah right. And for the guy to have a top position in Libya of all places, yes, he worked with the CIA.

The CIA is just an instrument of covert power projection. Believe it officially came about in1947 absorbing assets from the WW II era"office of strategic studies or "OSS".

The soviets had the "KGB"(state security)& the "GRU"( military intelligence)and the services of the countries included in the former "com bloc"( Bulgarians/ Romanians/ Yugoslavians/Czechs et al).

The Brits have their "MI-6": ("mi-5" being the "domestic security" arm) the Germans and french each have their services.(I don't recall off the top of my head their acronyms.)

Middle eastern Islamic and African countries all field agents abroad ; also...

Every country wields its power globally through these agencies. It is nothing to be ashamed of.
It is how the game is played.

BTW - If you and your neighbours get bombed back into the stone age just for disagreeing with the USA and Israel, what does that make the USA and Israel??

Originally posted by My.mind.is.mine

Originally posted by stonedogdiary

Originally posted by yourmaker

Originally posted by stonedogdiary
reply to post by milominderbinder

 

Seriously? Did you really just say that?

Opinions are opinions and I understand that. But with that opinion I'm thinking maybe we should send an angry mob to your house to burn it down and fire rockets at you and your family. Is that okay with you?

Did he help overthrow a foreign government though?

His opinion isn't the same as him actually acting out on it on the behalf of our governments.

I have absolutely no respect for anyone that condones the actions of yesterday on innocent people. If he had previously been a part of a military operation he was following his countries orders which may or may not have been for the best. We aren't debating that. We're talking about how anybody could have the balls to say something like that when on the anniversary of one of the biggest disasters our country has ever faced, an angry mob burned part of our embassy, tore our flag and raised their own, and killed four people senselessly.

How can anyone in this country defend this angry mob? People like that should seriously leave the country, and I know that might sound childish. But I appreciate what freedom we have left here and even when I strongly disagree with what our country is doing sometimes, I still get tears in my eyes at times when I hear the national anthem and I still respect what my loved ones and friends and friends in the military have done and given for this country no matter what party was ruling at the time.

You mean like the angry mob that destroyed Afghanistan "looking for Osama"? That angry mob...?

or the one who damn near turned Iraq back into desert........?

ORR, the one who decided that Ghadaffi was incapable of playing by their rules, so they had him killed...?


Four people died senselessly.. This is true... But how many have we killed with the drones..?
And how many were killed when we bombarded Libya? Or did we have a tactic of only shooting at empty buildings..?

Nooo I recall the US being a part of killing some babies in Libya....

killed with drones?/...pakistans own army went into the northwest and killed hundreds of the taliban, because even they were getting tired of their the attacks on their pakistani people...so...where's the blame on them?...do you think they had a good reason for killing hundreds of these terrorists in their own country?
the drones, if you don't know, SAVES american servicemen lives...but, i guess you don't like that, you probably want them to die in some type of bloody battle.

I don't recall even a flutter of a sigh from the US media about the deformed babies, the horrendous torture of innocents, the hundreds of thousands of slain children, the tones of depleted uranium, etc etc etc ad infinitum

Don't you realize that if you work for the government your life is worth at least a couple of hundred thousand dead Iraqis or afghan's???

That is the mad world we live in, where the innocents are the terrorists, and the terrorists become hero's. False patriots should be quiet on this, since they are more concerned about the death of one bureaucratic over the death of their country and their freedoms

I am 99.5% sure the ambassador was involved in terror against Libya, and war crimes, as most certainly he would have been working closely with the CIA

I bet the folks who go along with the 'fake grief' over this ambassador also believe 2 planes can magically knock down 3 buildings, and magical Arab pixies flew over on their magic carpets and spread their fairy dust that allowed kerosene to melt fire reinforced steel columns

Make no mistake, these people ( the government ) are doing the EXACT opposite to the national security and welfare of the US and its people

Originally posted by Elentarri
BTW - If you and your neighbours get bombed back into the stone age just for disagreeing with the USA and Israel, what does that make the USA and Israel??

really?? these people are already living in the 7th century...they kill each other over religous rules. what has been their great gift to civilized society in the last 100 years...how have they advanced mankind? what freedoms and liberties have they instituted for their own people?....you make them sound like some type of poor innocent group that is being picked on.

reply to post by milominderbinder


What a disgusting thread based around assumptions not facts. I think some of you people on ATS need to take a break from the conspiracies and find some compassion.

Originally posted by milominderbinder

Originally posted by Helmkat
So I guess the murder of Ambassadors is fair game in the world? So much for civilization. OP, you did not know this man-at all-, yet you say he got what he deserved. I hope you are never judged unfairly.

What I'm saying is that if the "Ambassadors" are graduates of the National War College, illegally enter foreign countries, and assist rebel factions in overthrowing their government, starting a civil war, and torturing and executing thousands and thousands of innocent civilians then we might need to seriously call Webster's to have them provide another possible definition for the word "Ambassador" so that it's more synonymous with the word "terrorist".

Ambassadors deal with relations between countries, right?
Wars are a fact of life.
Would it be a bad idea for an ambassador to be trained to recognize the aggressive behaviors associated with wars?
I'm thinking maybe a few leaders that were involved in the Munich Agreement could have used a bit of this training.

Here is a bit about the National War College and who trains there:

The National War College (NWC) provides a single-phase Joint Professional Military Education (JPME) program for mid-career U.S. military officers,civilian U.S. government officials , and foreign military officers. We achieve our mission by offering a professional, rigorous, multi-disciplinary curriculum emphasizing active-learning and immersion in a joint environment. This joint experience is further enriched by the inclusion of interagency and multinational partners in all aspects of the program. The NWC program is accredited by the Middle States Commission on Higher Education, and qualified graduates are awarded a Masters of National Security Strategy.

Bolding mine.

Source: National War College

Originally posted by Nite_wing
If you feel that an American ambassador and his staff got what they deserved, then you are not fellow American of mine so don't pretend to be.

i'm a liberal, and i agreee with you 100%. i also gave you a star...i hate it when b**tards like this think this way, and then feel free to express some type of deep knowledge of something they don't know a damn about. does anyone think that the radical muslims would come over here to america and fight for our freedoms if it came to that?...the chance of a snowball in hell comes to mind, they would simply slit our throats all the while laughing and cheering.

reply to post by InhaleExhale

How do you save Libyan live by organizing airstrikes on Libyans?

One way would be to target artillery which is shelling civilian targets. When the artillery is hit by airstrikes and taken out of action, it ceases to bombard the civilian targets, thereby saving lives of civilian non-combatants.

reply to post by milominderbinder


So, using your logic, all spies and infiltrators caught in the United States
"deserve" to be attacked and killed?

reply to post by jimmyx
Thank you jimmyx, I knew I would give you a star sooner or later.

Originally posted by jimmyx

Originally posted by My.mind.is.mine

Originally posted by stonedogdiary

Originally posted by yourmaker

Originally posted by stonedogdiary
reply to post by milominderbinder

 

Seriously? Did you really just say that?

Opinions are opinions and I understand that. But with that opinion I'm thinking maybe we should send an angry mob to your house to burn it down and fire rockets at you and your family. Is that okay with you?

Did he help overthrow a foreign government though?

His opinion isn't the same as him actually acting out on it on the behalf of our governments.

I have absolutely no respect for anyone that condones the actions of yesterday on innocent people. If he had previously been a part of a military operation he was following his countries orders which may or may not have been for the best. We aren't debating that. We're talking about how anybody could have the balls to say something like that when on the anniversary of one of the biggest disasters our country has ever faced, an angry mob burned part of our embassy, tore our flag and raised their own, and killed four people senselessly.

How can anyone in this country defend this angry mob? People like that should seriously leave the country, and I know that might sound childish. But I appreciate what freedom we have left here and even when I strongly disagree with what our country is doing sometimes, I still get tears in my eyes at times when I hear the national anthem and I still respect what my loved ones and friends and friends in the military have done and given for this country no matter what party was ruling at the time.

You mean like the angry mob that destroyed Afghanistan "looking for Osama"? That angry mob...?

or the one who damn near turned Iraq back into desert........?

ORR, the one who decided that Ghadaffi was incapable of playing by their rules, so they had him killed...?


Four people died senselessly.. This is true... But how many have we killed with the drones..?
And how many were killed when we bombarded Libya? Or did we have a tactic of only shooting at empty buildings..?

Nooo I recall the US being a part of killing some babies in Libya....

killed with drones?/...pakistans own army went into the northwest and killed hundreds of the taliban, because even they were getting tired of their the attacks on their pakistani people...so...where's the blame on them?...do you think they had a good reason for killing hundreds of these terrorists in their own country?
the drones, if you don't know, SAVES american servicemen lives...but, i guess you don't like that, you probably want them to die in some type of bloody battle.

No most people want their troops to come home not be half way across the world so corporations can be milking in profits. Most people dont want war, you seem to be happy that the US has these toys of destruction.

I'm just going to stick by my standard philosophical response to issues like this, which is that I oppose violence and war in all its forms and instances. It's when we start to argue about how it's in one instance justified but in another not that problems arise in my opinion.

I can't argue that it was justified for the rebels to fight fire with fire in Libya. I can't argue that Ghadaffi's actions were justified. I can't argue that this mob's actions were justified. To me no such actions are justifiable, so I don't get caught up in taking sides. Of course, that in risks angering or offending those who do take sides or who believe in justifiable force (which is not my intent, and I am not judging them.) But so be it. We all must live by our consciences, and mine says none of this is justifiable.

Peace.

reply to post by stonedogdiary


I agree and what's more interesting is how None of the other Nations who were the most active such as France, Britain and whoever else from NATO that did the most bombing and ground organizing and training.

OH!, wait, that would be playing into the ploy that is the mass distraction from the objective of this thread. Whatever that is I will leave others to decide.

BTW, there has been statements that Some of the Libyan security personnel were killed as well. Not sure if that can be confirmed. It's a sad day when anyone must die let alone without any sort of honorable death.

Originally posted by jimmyx

Originally posted by Elentarri
BTW - If you and your neighbours get bombed back into the stone age just for disagreeing with the USA and Israel, what does that make the USA and Israel??

really?? these people are already living in the 7th century...they kill each other over religous rules. what has been their great gift to civilized society in the last 100 years...how have they advanced mankind? what freedoms and liberties have they instituted for their own people?....you make them sound like some type of poor innocent group that is being picked on.

Do Arabs disgust you?

Hey you know The US gave the best gift to mankind with Nuclear weapons.

Are you talking just about Libya or the whole Middle East with your statements of living the 7th century, how they have advanced mankind and what liberties they have instituted?