Problems In The Church

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


Judge not lest ye be judged in kind. For vengeance is mine sayeth the Lord.

And blasphemy is simply just another way of stuffy old men telling you to blindly obey and never think about what they say.

I believe, I believe in my own way and don't follow any traditional crap and I'll always think for myself and never take what you stuffy old men say at face value. I never blindly follow anything, regardless of what I believe in.

And that's the difference between you me. I disagree with you, but I would never make such a judgement against you of whether or not you are a true Christian or not. The only being in the universe who can do that is God.

You're just going to have to accept that not everybody follows the way the same as you, and learn to stop judging them and stop trying to impose your beliefs onto everybody else.

But then again, you're a Christian. You can't help yourself. Judgers gotta judge.

Originally posted by EvilSadamClone
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

Judge not lest ye be judged in kind. For vengeance is mine sayeth the Lord.

Yes, that is very true! The problem comes in people who misrepresent God, as you seem to do -- if this is allowed to stand, without defence, it is not unlikely that you might lead some people astray. This would have the affect of not only your own ignorance coming down on your head, but those you have turned away from God, as well.

And blasphemy is simply just another way of stuffy old men telling you to blindly obey and never think about what they say.

No, not really. Blasphemy is a clear "spitting in the face of God" -- it goes beyond "I don't believe in your particular dogma" to a refutation of God, as he is represented by church and scripture.

If one was to say "I don't think that the Catholic church is right on..." or "I differ with the Lutheran view of..." or something along those lines, that is a matter of doctrinal difference which I (personally) don't see a big issue with. But if one takes issues with fundamental Christian thought, that is heretical, and one will be called to defend it at some point, either by man or by God.

Deliberately insulting God is blasphemy, and it is impossible to see how man might resolve that, never mind what God himself thinks of it.

As I am fond of saying, if you have an issue with God, you are welcome to take it up with him, when the time comes.

Originally posted by HamrHeed
This thread is put together well and I'm going to fold a corner so I can respond later, fully.
Quick questions before I head out:
Why do you stay at this church?
What advice can you give to us new christians in terms of finding a church? When I see all these different sects, I feel that something isn't right.. The bible is simply the anchor into gods heart and is fallible, as it was written by man, and changed? I seem to be offending certain people of the faith when I testify or say anything thats not in line with their beliefs. aka judged which is the antithesis of true christianity.. Are we just at different periods in our understanding of the full picture? I notice alot of heat around the catholic topic and of course us "new kids", meditation etc

You can meditate as a christian, it's not necessarily bad, it just depends how you go about it.
That statement alone will have me condemned by certain people,,

(1st questions answer) To be honest, I only go to this church occasionally. It's my grandmas church. I've been in, and out of church since the 6th grade, and I was saved at the age of 5, but later, in the 6th grade, when I began to go to church at my own will, I got saved again, after I better understood what it really meant, and what it was about. My faith holds strong, but at the moment, I don't exactly have a church I call home. Instead, I read my bible, and just do the best I can to obey Gods law, spread the word, and defend Gods people, and God in general to the best of my ability.

(2nd questions answer) Well, in terms of finding a church, that one is quite difficult, or simple, depending on how you may view it. My advice, is to visit multiple churches, until you find one you feel right at. Also, another crucial importance, concerns what the church is really about. The Bible is Truth. When finding a church, use your Bible to look up what the pastor/preacher is talking about. It's the wrong church, if the pastor, or church contradicts what the Bible teaches.

(3rd questions answer) Honestly, the only thing that was changed from the Bible, was the language. Now, it is known that some of the Bible isn't directly translated word for word from Hebrew, but that is simply because there are some Hebrew words, that don't have an English translation. If you hear about the books that were removed from the Bible, don't fret. These scriptures can be found under; "The Dead Sea Scrolls". The scriptures contain history of Jesus in younger years, and Enoch, the man who ascended to Heaven, multiple times, and eventually got to stay there, without dying. "The Dead Sea Scrolls", also contain much more. I found a translated copy in my local library. It was about as thick as the Bible. A very interesting read. My mom read it all, but I scanned through, and read different parts. The book of Enoch was most fascinating.

(4th questions answer) Well, that is the case for some people, and that is, some people are at a higher understanding when it comes to the Truth. The ultimate thing is, to remember that God is Truth. Man did physically write the Bible, but these men where only channeling the Holy Spirit when writing the Word, so in Truth, God did write the Bible. The one thing to remember, is that the Bible is Truth. We were given free will, and are entitled to believe what we want, but if our beliefs contradict the Bible, then the belief is false, because Gods' Word (The Bible) is truth. A few cool facts; As many know, man used to view the Earth as being flat, but in the Bible, it points out that the Earth is round.(Isaiah 40:22) Also, another cool fact, that in the Bible, way before we knew about molecules, and atoms, in the Bible, it states that all things visible are held together by that which invisible.(Colossians 1:16-17) Pretty cool huh?

(5th statements reply) Well not by me. Meditation is a great thing. We must meditate on good things though, things of God. The Devil is very real though, and seeks whom he may devour. Just be very cautious when doing it, and test the spirits. The Bible tells us in (1 John 4:1-3); "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God."

Originally posted by Mickierocksman
reply to post by TheBeatMasta

 

Posting a boob-tube clip, yep, that must be proof that 'god' exists

well done mate, you really showed me

Little boy, you have so much growing up to do - lets start simply shall we.

A question for you.....

Out of the thousands of documented ancient 'gods', what makes yours the right and only one?

A sub question to that would be......

And what will you do if your 'god' turns out to be incorrect and you have been worshipping a false idol? I hear 'gods' don't like it when you worship incorrectly.... so what will you do in that event?

What say you christian soldier?

Mickierocksman

The Bible is proven to be authentic by archaeological evidence, and The God, The One, and Only God, is the God of the Bible. This Is The Only God, and the Only One I worship, and to answer your ignorant second question, that day will never come. Mock me. You are no threat. I support evidence, but you pose ignorant, and foolish simple minded questions. You're scared to watch the video, and to check out the link listing the archaeological evidence I speak of. You can act like you're laughing, but I sense the hatred, and bitterness swarming from your essence. Once again. This is no argument, for you pose no threat. What this is, is me supporting evidence for the Truth I speak, and simply planting a seed in your mind for the Holy Spirit to work in you. God has blessed you. All you must do is accept His Wonderful, and Eternal Grace.

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by deadeyedick
All i'm saying is that the op makes sense to me so why should you bash it so hard when you could just constructfully criticize instead?

"Haters gotta hate."

Just keep reciting that when you see moronic posts like that one.

Some people are so shallow that the only way that they can deal with people who think differently than they do is to belittle them.

In most instances, such people are referred to as bigots and asses.

But when they are ridiculing Christians, they are referred to as skeptics and rationalists. It's just a part of the persecution of the faithful in these days -- "Mickierocksman" is playing his role, like any tool would.

Sad thing is that, if you spend time talking to them, these sorts are some of the most irrational people around, they just don't realize it.

I think that you will find that the OP was full of “no atheists in my thread!” & “I’m not going to talk to fools!”

So when I see a christian spreading hatred and rules that are totally inappropriate for an open forum, I have to bite and point out the obvious.

I believe the biggest biggots, asses and raciest people in the world are christians, you hate many different types of people more than any other cult and you can only deal with matters that fit into your religious box.

If your box is broken, you freak out like it’s the third coming of Zeus.

Mickierocksman

Originally posted by AlreadyGone
Sounds like it is time to find a new church. If you are not being fed spiritually or if true and sound Biblical doctrine is not being studied and taught, it is time to leave and find another church.

As far as witness groups and coming together with other Christians for the purpose of witnessing, ...

Form your own group.

In doing so, you are closer to the original foundation of the Church as presented in the New Testament.

I pretty much have given up on most of the local churches in my community. They are good people for the most part, but the "leaders" in those churches either do not teach ALL of the Bible or only believe certain parts of the Bible... ie demons, possession, Satan are avoided or discounted. Further, indepth study of any of the more challenging parts such as Ezekiel's wheel are discouraged.

I am still a Christian and I read the Bible and pray... and I still receive the blessings of God, but not in organized religion.

I agree with your statement that I should find another church. I only go because my grandma likes this church, but the Truth being spoken is what is important, and I will form my own witness group, and possibly even my own church in the future. I have that feeling of importance/powerful feeling when it comes to this. I feel like it is my responsibility; because, God game me the abilities, faith, talent of forming words together, leadership, etc. The book of Ezekiel is quite hard to picture, or imagine, also. I find that book quite the fascination. Especially when it comes to the first chapter, but I am very glad you hold on to your faith. I can't put into words the empathy I feel for you. As in, it could be said, I'm overjoyed by your testimony. Thank you for posting.

Originally posted by EvilSadamClone
reply to post by TheBeatMasta

 

Jesus and God are not sinless. They do engage in some of the seven deadly sins that are only sins for humans but not for god because god is so special he is not beholden to his own rules and standards he sets for us. All he does is do as I say not as I do.

Present verses from the Bible that prove what you speak of, for the Bible is Truth. I will already tell you though, in all respect, you are wrong, and if I may, it sounds awfully like you have been deceived.

Originally posted by TheBeatMasta

Originally posted by Mickierocksman
reply to post by TheBeatMasta

 

Posting a boob-tube clip, yep, that must be proof that 'god' exists

well done mate, you really showed me

Little boy, you have so much growing up to do - lets start simply shall we.

A question for you.....

Out of the thousands of documented ancient 'gods', what makes yours the right and only one?

A sub question to that would be......

And what will you do if your 'god' turns out to be incorrect and you have been worshipping a false idol? I hear 'gods' don't like it when you worship incorrectly.... so what will you do in that event?

What say you christian soldier?

Mickierocksman

The Bible is proven to be authentic by archaeological evidence, and The God, The One, and Only God, is the God of the Bible. This Is The Only God, and the Only One I worship, and to answer your ignorant second question, that day will never come. Mock me. You are no threat. I support evidence, but you pose ignorant, and foolish simple minded questions. You're scared to watch the video, and to check out the link listing the archaeological evidence I speak of. You can act like you're laughing, but I sense the hatred, and bitterness swarming from your essence. Once again. This is no argument, for you pose no threat. What this is, is me supporting evidence for the Truth I speak, and simply planting a seed in your mind for the Holy Spirit to work in you. God has blessed you. All you must do is accept His Wonderful, and Eternal Grace.

edit on 3-9-2012 by TheBeatMasta because: added quote

So you’re right and the millions of other people around the world following a different religions are just plain wrong?

Of course I expect you to think like that, why would you even consider anything else, your blinded.

Christian religion is the biggest killer of man in known history and the biggest divider of people currently in the world today (racism is second on the list)

Yes, of course, you feel your god is merciful and everything warm and fuzzy – but I see nothing, no proof (and you have not provided ANY PROOF) to stop the atrocities that have taken place on this earth for the past 2000 years.

It is true, I would prefer to burn in a fiery hell for all eternity than spend one day in ‘heaven’ surrounded by hating christians and a ‘god’ that ‘if real’ shows no compassion at all and never has.

Mickierocksman

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by TheBeatMasta

 

Bro, aspects of the 7 churches have always been present. Each church is one of the 7 seals and is also a church age. For instance the letter to Ephesus was the letter to the first church age (church governed by the first generation messianics) and is the first seal. The 7 churches also represent the 7 different types of believers. Jesus has broken 1 seal per every church age. Right now we're in the church age of Laodicea the lukewarm church and that may be what you're feeling is wrong in your church. The 8th head of the Beast (Rev. 17) is rising to power, we are living in the times of the very end times prophecies. Some preachers feel the need to warn people against worldly things, but often forget the love of our Savior and the objective to reach out to those lost souls who do not know him.

Thank you. Your post is a very truthful, and a great read, also. I fully believe what you have spoken. God will surely come soon. When, though, that is unknown, but we do know it is soon, simply because of the prophecies that are being fulfilled, and from the ones that have been fulfilled. Surely, it will be in our lifetime. Assuming you are fairly young, in a meaning of which you may be in your twenties, or thirties. Surely though, the time of Great Judgment is coming very soon. Thank you for posting.

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
reply to post by TheBeatMasta

 

Clearly, you are going to the wrong church. Visit others. As another observation, religion is not connecting with God in a perfect world as much as it is connecting your witness to others in a fallen world. Your best witness is simply living with virtue and honor and acknowledging the source of your faith. Faith requires trust in God. Faith is not your work, but God's work in you (and others). Living in fear of all that is wrong in this world ignores all that is right. Any place you look, there will be both aspects equally paired. Living by faith finds the good in all people and situations. You can find either good or bad. Remember that you cannot see a fault in another person without first seeing it in yourself. Many times, we are finding the faults around us as a reflection of our own shortcomings. Facing them in ourselves first allows us to see the same change of awareness in others.

Going back to the Bible, this is removing the plank in your own eye before trying to remove the speck in another.

Thank you for your post. You are close to God, and I'm very glad to have you find interest, and make your words seen through this thread. Thank you, again, and God has blessed you, but you know this.

Originally posted by TheBeatMasta

Originally posted by EvilSadamClone
reply to post by TheBeatMasta

 

Jesus and God are not sinless. They do engage in some of the seven deadly sins that are only sins for humans but not for god because god is so special he is not beholden to his own rules and standards he sets for us. All he does is do as I say not as I do.

Present verses from the Bible that prove what you speak of, for the Bible is Truth. I will already tell you though, in all respect, you are wrong, and if I may, it sounds awfully like you have been deceived.

Of course you would think and demand that

True christain behaviour.

Present verses from a book written by man - translated many times, portions removed and updated by many different factions of your cult hundreds of times to suit their own purpose..... yep, that will prove him wrong

Deception? He is not the only one deceived, that’s for sure!

Mickierocksman

Just to let all of you know, the ones who are just posting on this thread to hate, and attack. Your words are now only being read by yourselves as you type them. I will not waste my time reading pure ignorance, and hatred. Why would I fill up my mind with your delusions of trash? I wouldn't. Why would I? None of you have anything to support your self created delusions. You think you know everything, when us Christians, understand God as the Holy Overseer, and Only He knows all things.

Do not keep silent, O God of my praise! For the mouth of the wicked and the mouth of the deceitful have opened against me; they have spoken against me with a lying tongue. They have also surrounded me with words of hatred, and fought against me without a cause. In return for my love they are my accusers, but I give myself to prayer. Thus they have rewarded me evil for good, and hatred for my love. (Psalm 109:1-5)

But the ones who hate, are no threat to us Christians. God has Power over all, and we are His children. Surely the ones who hate are out matched, no question.

Hold fast, and stay strong in your faith, for the accuser comes to destroy those that he may devour, being that of satan. Do not fret from the accusations of the devils' pawns. They make accusations because they are angered that they will never win the fight. They are weak minded, and fragile. Praise God, and continue to win the race. Even when the crowd is booing, keep winning the race. The moment you go into the stands to argue with satans pawns, is the same moment when you begin too lose the race. Hold fast, keep running the race, and doing right in the presence of God. God has blessed us all, and He is the one to please. Who cares what the minions of satan think. All they want to do is keep you from pleasing God, and they will do, and say anything, lies, accusations, to keep you from fulfilling Gods' will. If you have let them hear the Truth of Christ Jesus, God, and the Holy Spirit, witnessed to them, and taught them how to be saved, through the blood of Christ, then their salvation is on their shoulders. Praise God if they believe, but do not waste time fighting with them if they don't. When they tell of lies of you, and spread accusations in any way, rumors, etc., you have simply convicted them with the Truth that you speak. Keep pleasing God, and let them say what they will. God is the one to please. Let them say what they will, but keep running the race for God, cause in the end, you are the winner, and they will see in the end, this Eternal Truth of God. With all of our heart, mind, soul, and body, praise the Almighty, and True Holy God, forever, and ever.

"You who make boast in the law, do you dishonor God through breaking the law?" (Romans 2:23) "He did not waver at the promise of God through unbelief, but was strengthened in faith, giving glory to God, and being fully convinced that what He had promised He was able to perform." (Romans 4:20 and 21) "But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him." (Romans 5:8 and 9) "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." (Romans 6:23) "that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation." (Romans 10:9 and 10)

reply to post by TheBeatMasta


Self-created delusions of grandeur – the christian main aim, because that is all it is and all it will be.

Hey, I have had fun reading your whimsical preaching, but that’s all it is…… trash (using your own words)

Good luck when armageddon time comes – I would love to be standing next to you when (insert any other god or alien here) returns and takes the chosen ones, I am sure you will wet your pants, change teams and beg to be forgiven faster than most atheists will.

Do not keep silent o-lord, smite me, please smite me now!!!!!

Still waiting….. still waiting

Mickierocksman

reply to post by TheBeatMasta

Before I begin this thread, I want to state clearly, that this is the wrong thread for an atheist, or agnostic. I have no time to argue with a fool.

I just spent the last 22 hours alone with my friend who is a Jehovah's witness, a devote one.

We had some good discourse in that long trip, and theres one thing I cant fault them for is study of the bible, it is only interpretation and implementation that I have a problem with when it comes to them.

And two things I got from that in general is this, there are no "acts" church in existence today on this earth period, they all have false doctrines interwoven into them even if it's something like calibration of their holidays to pagan dates.

The 2nd thing was in how apoligist approach them as many Christians view them as a cult following false beliefs, the fastest way to lose your audeince in ministering to the lost, is to start by mocking or calling of names...

What is the goal of the church? To minister to the lost, that's what the whole point of Christ work in the first place, the lost as in atheist and agnostic...

I'd suggest you re-read mathew 5:22, just as a refresher.

Im not saying much of what you are saying is not correct, simply that you may want to focus on the actual purpose of the church in the first place.

Perhaps if all Christians did that much of what you speak of wouldnt be the case, and just maybe the world would be a better place.

We all know as Christians that what is prophicised in the bible will come to pass, how you deal with it is what's important.

reply to post by benrl

'The 2nd thing was in how apoligist approach them as many Christians view them as a cult following false beliefs, the fastest way to lose your audeince in ministering to the lost, is to start by mocking or calling of names...' . 'I'd suggest you re-read mathew 5:22, just as a refresher. '

Matthew 5:22 "But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, 'Raca!' shall be in danger of the council. but whoever says, 'You fool! shall be in danger of hell fire."

I am a child of God, rather an atheist or agnostic, is not. Therefore, they are not my brethren in Christ, until they recognize that Christ died for their sins, along with mine, and washed all sins away, becoming Gods' Grace. All we have to do is accept, and say yes God, take me, out loud. You can't be afraid to say it, but believing is what matters.. I want to be a child of Christ. For I understand how you bled for me. I get it now... I don't care who will hate me for it. I feel the light, and you know what Lord God Almighty... I want what you got... I want to live in peace, and overwhelming joy. I'm tired of this pain... I give my soul over to you Lord. You are my savior now. May your will God, shine down up on my face. I will be with you God, in the end. I know.

We all know as Christians that what is prophicised in the bible will come to pass, how you deal with it is what's important.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by EvilSadamClone
reply to post by TheBeatMasta

 

Jesus and God are not sinless. They do engage in some of the seven deadly sins that are only sins for humans but not for god because god is so special he is not beholden to his own rules and standards he sets for us. All he does is do as I say not as I do.

That is blasphemy and you're not a believer if you could even say such things about Him.

Isaiah 55:8-9

“For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways My ways,” says the Lord.
9 “For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are My ways higher than your ways,
And My thoughts than your thoughts.

edit on 2-9-2012 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)

Lonewolf, sadams clone thinks god and his right hand were sinners. Sounds like new age crap

reply to post by adjensen

I leave that to God. Theologically, I can see how an atheist can serve God's will, whether they like it or not -- how that works out in the end, I don't know, so I generally just dismiss it with the "haters gotta hate" bit and figure it will resolve itself. If they're condemned for their irrational hatred, they're condemned, but if God saves them from their hatred, that's glory to God, so who are we to complain?

Ofcourse theyre serving his will, and theyre fools for thinking they can fight him. All in the OT Israel was told to proclaim his name to the nations for all to hear and to speak of him. By atheists coming here to mock him, they are still speaking of him. So regardless of their claims to disbelieve in him, by coming here to fight him they show they really do believe in him, because someone who did not believe in him wouldn't give a fart in the wind about talking about him, they'd just shove on and avoid threads talking about him. In essence theyre doing exactly what he commanded, which is to speak of him so either way, they lose and he wins. You can't fight God, you do his will even when you think you're doing your own because he uses everything to his advantage. Theyre being drawn to him against their own wills and they don't see it and in the end EVERY knee shall bow and EVERY tongue confess that Jesus is Master to the Glory of the Father, angels, humans, animals, living and dead and Richard Dawkins will eat his own words on that day.

Originally posted by EvilSadamClone
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

Judge not lest ye be judged in kind. For vengeance is mine sayeth the Lord.

And blasphemy is simply just another way of stuffy old men telling you to blindly obey and never think about what they say.

I believe, I believe in my own way and don't follow any traditional crap and I'll always think for myself and never take what you stuffy old men say at face value. I never blindly follow anything, regardless of what I believe in.

And that's the difference between you me. I disagree with you, but I would never make such a judgement against you of whether or not you are a true Christian or not. The only being in the universe who can do that is God.

You're just going to have to accept that not everybody follows the way the same as you, and learn to stop judging them and stop trying to impose your beliefs onto everybody else.

But then again, you're a Christian. You can't help yourself. Judgers gotta judge.

"Judge not lest you be judged" you are taking out of context so it doesn't apply. We are morally obligated to combat heresy such as your blasphemy of the Holy One of Israel. You use the "judge not lest you be judged" because you think it's a trump card to allow you to continue your wickedness against God in your own deceitful mind. You who speak evil of the Savior are not one of us, you wolf in sheeps clothing seeking to lead astray brothers and sisters belonging to Yeshua. You preach doctrines of devils and twist scripture to your own ends.

Proverbs 6:12-19

12 A worthless person, a wicked man,
Walks with a perverse mouth;
13 He winks with his eyes,
He shuffles his feet,
He points with his fingers;
14 Perversity is in his heart,
He devises evil continually,
He sows discord.
15 Therefore his calamity shall come suddenly;
Suddenly he shall be broken without remedy.

16 These six things the Lord hates,
Yes, seven are an abomination to Him:
17 A proud look,
A lying tongue,
Hands that shed innocent blood,
18 A heart that devises wicked plans,
Feet that are swift in running to evil,
19 A false witness who speaks lies,
And one who sows discord among brethren.

reply to post by TheBeatMasta


I am sorry OP, but good thread or bad, you cannot start a thread by labelling some as "fools" and then saying they can't participate.

Aside from being extremely rude from the get go, you are basically labelling yourself as a petulant child......not a good start to any thread.

It is good you have questions and that you seek answers, that is to your credit. My advice would be in future do not then go and spoil that by doing the internet version of fingers in the ears and shouting "lalalala".

Good luck in your quest.

reply to post by TheBeatMasta

All we have to do is accept, and say yes God, take me, out loud.

I agree with everything except this right here. He reads your heart and your mind. He will not turn away a repentant heart regardless of mouthing the words, otherwise there would be many a deaf/mute heading to hell with babies and mentally handicapped as well, which does not happen. The saying of the words has been tradition but is no requirement for salvation. The bare minimum for salvation is believing in Yeshua, excepting in cases of babies and toddlers who are under the age of accountability (which is they do not know right from wrong) and the mentally handicapped who are incapable of understanding sin and both right and wrong.