Americans shot in Mexico were CIA operatives

reply to post by MaxBlack


Thanks for taking the time to add your thoughts regarding this.

I hadn't thought about the NYC shooting and possible connection. If it was a planned distraction it surely worked well as the discussion regarding this incident and Fast and Furious has definitely been overshadowed by it here in the US.

reply to post by Symbiot


Right, the CIA's motives are as pure as the driven snow. Evil-doers only exist beyond US borders. Right.

The reason there is no compromise in drug laws is that everyone loses the profits. Don't digress here, the US is the muscle and enforcers in this global scam. It ain't pulp fiction. It takes strict enforcement to keep those illicit prices inflated. On one is allowed to let their country become lax.

reply to post by Vaedur


Good point there.

I hadn't really thought of it that way. It happens in our own country with people that have no government affiliation (or none reported anyways),

Thanks for your thoughts.

reply to post by Erongaricuaro


I'm not saying that there are not those within the CIA and the US that profit off of illegal drug sales and have nefarious motives, those people do exist. What I am saying is that the CIA also has motives to genuinely uphold their war on drugs. There are those that have a nefarious mindset and those that have a good willed mindset in almost every organization. The battle between good and evil rages everywhere, there is no one single controlling organization of anything anywhere.


Edit: The world lives and breathes war. There is war between nations, war between cartels, war between corporations, wars between departments within a single organization and even wars between family members. The world lives and breathes conflict.

reply to post by jeantherapy


I understand what you are saying here and can agree somewhat. However, we need to be really careful about that stance in discussion here. There is some leeway that we are given here on ATS and I would like the discussion to continue.

I already understand that TPTB aren't serious about stopping the flow given the amount that flows through our borders and not addressing those problems instead of the financial game of the court system and the prison industrial complex.

Thanks for your input.

reply to post by illuminnaughty


Would not be a suprise to me either. The article indicated that they were heading to a military shooting range. Past history has given us the Iran/Contra affair.

reply to post by pwndnewb


You're right of course, don't want to get your thread locked up. I just wish that non violent activities didn't have to bet met with such violence. I would say however that I am against the manufacture of coc aine, Bruce Perry got some good footage of this being made in the jungle and it was incredibly dirty and destructive on the forest. But if the citizens of our nation were allowed to cultivate a plant, it could be used in the traditional and safe method- chewing the leaf. If our government were actually serious about stopping the illegal drug trade they would experiment with ideas like this to eliminate the need people feel to import this stuff.

reply to post by Symbiot


I have a better understanding of what you are trying to get at when I read your two posts together.

Another point you might add is that they may need to have the drugs to get the foot in the door to sell the weapons. (To set UC operators up in order to make the cover credible).

I do understand the point you make about people who may think that they are actually good work with regards to the war on drugs. One has to look no further than Celerino Castillo III, he was in the DEA and working in Central America for years before he actually realized what was going on and tried to blow the whistle.

Thanks for your input.

reply to post by Symbiot


A star for your added discussion but I disagree. There are no honorable motives at that level of the Drug War, it is pure economics. The drug war serves only to keep the prices high and as a camoflauge to cover the activities of controlling who is allowed to market large quantities. Any perceived honor in fighting this war is at the lower levels for those who do not realize the damage being caused and are duped into being tools of this global trade.

Of course the top players cannot police the street-level dealers, that is for the local agencies and is a trickle-down of profit for them in terms of property confiscated and people put into the justice system. Of course those local agencies are rewarded with budgets, equipment, training, etc., to continue the good fight.

Perhaps where the greatest damage occurs is in loss of privacies and personal liberties for the average person and family. Doors get kicked-in regularly in wrong-address raids without so much as a "beg pardon". Searches continue while the "wrong address" is being verified while law enforcement is almost certain they will find a joint or two in Junior's sock drawer that will justify the mistaken identity and evil-doers go before the courts. The big budget received for SWAT teams and gear are easily expended by the local department and now they utilize these forces for routine procedures, which are often minor complaints against our neighbors and "shock and awe" techniques employed.

It doesn't take much to realize the "cure" is worse than the disease, but it is just so lucrative for the authorities to use such tactics agains the increasingly helpless and hapless populace.

www.dailymarkets.com...

This link gave me a real laugh, it is not in the least bit unbelievable. (It was April fools joke??)

Here is another:
www.huffingtonpost.com...
racism



guess the guy really exists, though www.forbes.com...

Originally posted by Erongaricuaro
There are no honorable men involved in this, at best some are just hapless dupes and patsys fooled into thinking they are doing the right thing.

There are no honorable men (or women) in federal politics past their first term.

(rant) They talk about stopping the drugs while a CIA transport crashes (multiple times) with tons of coc aine on board. They talk about honor and high ideals, then they don't even read the legislation they rubber stamp. They talk about belt-tightening finances, then they literally give money away to Wall Street (ditto the reverse). They ignore massive graft and fraud while accepting PAC money and donations from the perps. They talk about spreading freedom around the world while they spread DU death around the world in the process of looting and pillaging foreign lands (/rant)

This gangster government is literally too far gone to save.

reply to post by Erongaricuaro


We may have to disagree, but I'm not sure that the two of us are on an entirely different wavelength here. I think that even at the top there are those with good hearted motives and those with nefarious motives. Within the CIA things get pretty complicated due to the secrecy of much of their operations, often times the top is not made aware of what is going on in the middle or the bottom and this is not by accident, but actually policy. It's policy because, especially in covert organizations, you never know just who is working for who. The cartels have operatives working in the CIA just as the CIA, or DEA, has operatives working for the cartels. Likewise you might find that there are Russian or Chinese operatives working in the CIA just as there are CIA operatives working in respective Russian or Chinese organizations. Secrecy between departments and levels becomes necessary because the more people the information passes the greater chance that your target will find out about it.

There are parts of the CIA that conduct nefarious drug operations and this is not necessarily known to the other departments or heads and there are parts that conduct genuine war on drug eschew operations, sometimes one finds out about the other and sometimes they don't. That's just part of the secrecy game, no one knows who's holding what cards, even those at the top of these organizations. Sometimes those at the top have nefarious goals and sometimes they don't and most of the time they never know for sure who is on who's side.

This rings true in pretty much every facet of civilization, not just covert organizations. You might have Microsoft 'agents' working for Apple and Apple 'agents' working for Google, that's competition for ya. After all of this money is spent on competing with one another, all this money spent on sabotage and subverting sabotage there is little left over for actual advancement. We end up with a massive disparage in world health, we simply cannot afford to feed all of the worlds people because that money is being spent on competition, spend on hurting the human race rather than helping the human race.

Moreover due to the secrecy behind a lot of this people begin to think that every time someone has a secret they must be hiding something bad, when that's not always true, sometimes they're hiding something from the bad. This rings true in a variety of places too, where conspiracy theorists assume that government secrets are hiding some massive vile agenda police assume that the average citizens secret is hiding some criminal activity. Both of these assumptions are only sometimes true, but certainly not always. A lot of this stems from fear. The people fear the government and the government fears the people. The cartels fear the CIA and the CIA fears the cartels. China fears the US and the US fears China. In all we're really just killing ourselves.

Edit: However; I would not call any of these people honorable.

Mexico isnt going to be real happy when they find out they pissed off the wrong people and all the sudden drones ' arent ' seen blowing up some things that are vital to the cartels.

reply to post by milkyway12


Mexico already has drones of its own....Mexican Drones

One Mexican UAV crashed in someone's back yard in El Paso in December 2010...

Originally posted by killuminati2012
In case you aren't already aware, the CIA is behind much of the global drug trafficking. This is where they make a lot of their money.

This is the way its all run, and this isn't just big operations but in our own black market town situation. Isn't it odd that the big drug group here in BC is called the UN Gang, and that my native friend's daughter was with someone from the reservation up to their eyeballs in stuff and to water this down so its not specific, that hard core guy's family connection was actually to the UN and some native department.

So its big, small, everywhere, all pervasive, and beyond most of the corruption in every town in every country, AND, includes the M K ultra programs. And is behind the formation of any local groups where animals are found on alters, and when you're told you'd be surprised who belongs, think teachers, ministers, judges and doctors, the doctors is a give away to children born without birth certificates and more than animal sacrifice taking place.

Drugs, white slave market, desperation, poverty, the children who's parents were druggies in and out of foster homes, and hanging out with some realtors managers and tormenting whole areas, its all by design, all set up, and yes, CIA, and Black Ops, PTB behind the whole thing.

reply to post by milkyway12


What is vital to the "cartels" is also vital to their enablers and partners in crime, the CIA.

reply to post by Symbiot


Three points -

"Cartels" do not fear the CIA, the CIA does not fear the "cartels", though there is likely plenty of distrust. They are joined at the hip, interdependent on each other. Those CIA "advisors" are here attempting to run the show.

Compartmentalized as things are, even now the common Joe Six-pack American knows US letter agencies control the global drug business. Only local yocals are not aware of that and are simply duped "tools of the trade."

America doesn't "feed the poor" in the world any more than we feed cattle to fatten them up for slaughter. What ever goodwill the US extends to developing nations is no more than buying influence, making them an offer they can't refuse. We let our own suffer and go hungry in the US because we/they don't need to buy their/our influence, we are owned by them already. If we actually possessed self-ownership then drugs and substances would not even be an issue to discuss - a problem that would not then exist.

Originally posted by Erongaricuaro
reply to post by Symbiot

 

"Cartels" do not fear the CIA, the CIA does not fear the "cartels", though there is likely plenty of distrust. They are joined at the hip, interdependent on each other. Those CIA "advisors" are here attempting to run the show.

Compartmentalized as things are, even now the common Joe Six-pack American knows US letter agencies control the global drug business. Only local yocals are not aware of that and are simply duped "tools of the trade."

The world is rife with fear, this is a major reason people are always fighting with each other. In psychology it is widely acknowledged that bullies on playgrounds bully because they are afraid of their own inadequacy, afraid that if they do not bully then they would become bullied. As adults we are merely older children, the 'adults' of this world are merely carrying on the tradition set from their past, different organizations, different nations, different belief systems, different religions all fighting one another because they are afraid of one another. They are afraid that if they do not prove themselves in battle, whatever form that battle may take, then they will be considered weak and therefor mercilessly attacked.

The US is not the only country in the world, it is not the only organization in the world, it is not even the most powerful country in the world. The US and US interests are in a world filled with a variety of players all vying for the top dog spot, but no one has that spot, not even the US. In the wild it is common to find animals that stand on their hind legs in order to appear larger and ward of predators, in the human world you will find similar efforts. Governments such as the US often try to make themselves appear more powerful than they actually are, so you'll find them placing information implying that they control this that or the other simply in an effort to make it appear as though they are in control of everything, to make themselves appear more powerful than they actually are. The truth is that the US is not very powerful at all, especially now. The US is in a massive downward spiral and they know this, or should anyway.

Originally posted by Erongaricuaro
America doesn't "feed the poor" in the world any more than we feed cattle to fatten them up for slaughter. What ever goodwill the US extends to developing nations is no more than buying influence, making them an offer they can't refuse. We let our own suffer and go hungry in the US because we/they don't need to buy their/our influence, we are owned by them already. If we actually possessed self-ownership then drugs and substances would not even be an issue to discuss - a problem that would not then exist.

edit on 29-8-2012 by Erongaricuaro because: (no reason given)

Actually cattle are fed for the purpose of fattening them up in many instances, even beef with a large fat content is more to sell. However; I agree that the US generally only gives aid for the purposes of receiving something in return, what that might be can vary from case to case. The US, like much of the world, lets their own suffer because they lack the ability to stop it, even if they wanted to. We simply don't have the time to help people out because we're spending all of it on competition, conflict, strategic positioning, deception, political posturing, etc. As for being "owned" by the US, you have a point, I think many see it that way, that simply because you are born in a certain country that makes you subject to that countries laws, but in reality that's not the case. I am not American, I'm just a human being. Many falsely fear that if a person is allowed to be free they'd simply become lazy do nothings or violent kill every things, but I disagree. As a fledgling race of beings we had no laws, no governments and no corporations, yet we took it upon ourselves to invent the wheel and the hammer so clearly we have what it takes to "work" without the threat of punishment for not "working."

I want to say that I do appreciate all input.

I wondered about what the average Jose thinks of this mess. I emailed a fellow poster (who resides near Mexico City) on another board that I frequent about this and am waiting to hear what he thinks about it. When his response comes, I will do my best to paraphrase and include it in this thread.

I know that there have been some changes in the recent past, I was under the impression that the laws of Mexico limit/prohibit foriegn military/police from operating on it's soil.

I am also aware that over 45,000 deaths have occurred from the violence surrounding this drug war and that joint efforts between Mexico and the US have resulted in just a little over 30 mid to high level trafficers being killed or arrested in the past 5 years.

Even though it is hard for them to tell the CIA, DEA, FBI, Pentagon and several different contractors to leave, how long will the Mexican people allow escalation of this conflict to go on within their borders?

reply to post by pwndnewb


I believe Mexican law prohibits foreign law enforcement agents from carrying weapons, but does not ban their presence. Mexico actually asked the US for help in their drug war I believe and those CIA agents were likely there to help train Mexican law enforcement agents.

Originally posted by Symbiot
reply to post by pwndnewb

 

Mexico actually asked the US for help in their drug war I believe and those CIA agents were likely there to help train Mexican law enforcement agents.

That's funny. Ja ja ja! I'm sure that's what they are telling everyone though.

Do you think the agents maybe they gave those federales poor grades?