the feminization of american men = the narcissism-ization of american women

this is the synthesis of 3 threads on here lately....
the problem with women
my little pony
american woman princess syndrome

where I live I've noticed that women flourish. In the desert that's next to impossible to do. Yet somehow these women from all over the country come to the southwest and thrive. How does this happen? Well, they've banded together in a close-lnit social network of 'womanhood'.
the men here- however- don't have it so easy. They're drunken pseudo-cowboys with "buddy" trucks and chips the size of Texas on their shoulders about some little thing that happened years ago. The very thing that "allows" them to be drunken victims of their own lives....
anyhow- I don't think it's difficult to see that the masculine energy in america has tipped one way and it's not more towards men. Sure- I'm the 1st to agree this has been a patriarchial world and many men have abused their power over women over 10,000+ years. Still- does that give women the right to hate men? I don't think so, but somehoe, for some women (men too) their hatred is holy and binds a lot of people together.
hatred comes from too much 'self' and that itself is narcissism. Women are trained to compete to be the center of attention (some men too) which is akin to being in control of a given situation. Control is narcissism as well as fear developed from expectations....again narcissism.
yes narcissus was a man, but how much of one was he?

Originally posted by IandEye
this is the synthesis of 3 threads on here lately....
the problem with women
my little pony
american woman princess syndrome

where I live I've noticed that women flourish. In the desert that's next to impossible to do. Yet somehow these women from all over the country come to the southwest and thrive. How does this happen? Well, they've banded together in a close-lnit social network of 'womanhood'.
the men here- however- don't have it so easy. They're drunken pseudo-cowboys with "buddy" trucks and chips the size of Texas on their shoulders about some little thing that happened years ago. The very thing that "allows" them to be drunken victims of their own lives....
anyhow- I don't think it's difficult to see that the masculine energy in america has tipped one way and it's not more towards men. Sure- I'm the 1st to agree this has been a patriarchial world and many men have abused their power over women over 10,000+ years. Still- does that give women the right to hate men? I don't think so, but somehoe, for some women (men too) their hatred is holy and binds a lot of people together.
hatred comes from too much 'self' and that itself is narcissism. Women are trained to compete to be the center of attention (some men too) which is akin to being in control of a given situation. Control is narcissism as well as fear developed from expectations....again narcissism.
yes narcissus was a man, but how much of one was he?

A few questions, if you don't mind.

First, you state that women are trained to compete to be the center of attention. What are you basing this assumption on? Because I live in the south, and women are "trained" to be meek, quiet, and subservient.

Why do you assume all women hate men? I'm all for equal rights, but equating equal rights with man-hatred is a logical fallacy. I love men, and I value the masculine traits.

Personally, I believe in taking the best traits of the male and the best traits of the female, and together that makes a beautiful thing.

reply to post by IandEye


The problem isn't with the women...
It's with the men.

It used to be many ages ago. That men became men early because of family and responsibility.
Now most men don't want the responsibility and just want to be free to do what they want till in their late 30's.

And because of this what is happening is exactly what you describe in your op.

reply to post by smyleegrl


I think it depends on what part of the 'south' you live in. Where I live I have never been 'trained to be meek'. Maybe it's a difference in economic background. There was no women staying at home with no job when I was young (20 years ago), everybody had to work. Now saying that, my biological father treated my bio mother like crap, but that wasn't the norm. And about women trained to be the center of attention( which is the wrong word I think), even in small southern towns women see on the news about such things, and companies can still have law suits brought against them(and win most of the time no matter if they were right or wrong), because there is always some group with a fund and a lawyer willing to help women sue.
I don't even know if that makes as much sense in writing as it did in my head! Sorry if it didn't.

Believing Men and Women are treated equally is stupid in the current world(west).

Men usually have advantage at work place but its slowly decliing and becoming equal. For women, attractiveness does count at work place.

Law, women has almost absolute advantage on men, be it Divorce, Child custody, Abortion, men are next to nothing. Rape is another thing women get less penalty for *imagine a female teach on a younger male student compared to a male teacher on a younger female student* who do you think would suffer a harsher wrath?

The difference from 1920's to now is, Women have more rights and Men rights are restricted, and this is the closest to the truth.

Originally posted by EndlessFire
reply to post by smyleegrl

 

I think it depends on what part of the 'south' you live in. Where I live I have never been 'trained to be meek'. Maybe it's a difference in economic background. There was no women staying at home with no job when I was young (20 years ago), everybody had to work. Now saying that, my biological father treated my bio mother like crap, but that wasn't the norm. And about women trained to be the center of attention( which is the wrong word I think), even in small southern towns women see on the news about such things, and companies can still have law suits brought against them(and win most of the time no matter if they were right or wrong), because there is always some group with a fund and a lawyer willing to help women sue.
I don't even know if that makes as much sense in writing as it did in my head! Sorry if it didn't.

Yeah, trained isn't the right word. Maybe encouraged?

I'm from Tennessee. Although it was commonplace for girls to receive that message that they should be quiet "ladies," we weren't made to do so if we disagreed. It wasn't taught, per say, just a societal norm that you picked up on.

reply to post by luciddream


Absolutely. In today's world, men are the oppressed gender.

False rape charges, BS custody laws, less men are in school pursuing higher education, men are more likely to be victims of domestic abuse, 95% of workplace deaths are men, men commit suicide at a rate triple to woman.

Today the hot button issue is that women's right to reproduction is being abused. Well as men we have none. All your Girlfriend/Wife has to do is stop taking birth control and you're stuck with a kid. Woman have a right to choose, but as the man we have no right. We can't force paternity tests on you. And then men have to pay child support for a kid they didn't want.

So if this is a war of control. Woman won.

Originally posted by rottenrascals
reply to post by luciddream

 

Absolutely. In today's world, men are the oppressed gender.

False rape charges, BS custody laws, less men are in school pursuing higher education, men are more likely to be victims of domestic abuse, 95% of workplace deaths are men, men commit suicide at a rate triple to woman.

Today the hot button issue is that women's right to reproduction is being abused. Well as men we have none. All your Girlfriend/Wife has to do is stop taking birth control and you're stuck with a kid. Woman have a right to choose, but as the man we have no right. We can't force paternity tests on you. And then men have to pay child support for a kid they didn't want.

So if this is a war of control. Woman won.

Abortion always baffled me..

first, they allowed the man to have intercourse with them. they can say no.

2nd, they get pregnant and you have no right? they make the baby by themself?

3rd men are screwed either way because if men wanted the baby "is my body, i don't want it" or if they don;t want it "you better take responsibility, you caused this but i just want the money from you and get a new boyfriend"

This is generalization, but im saying this is a possibility and it happens quite often.

reply to post by luciddream


That was exactly what I was getting at. From the beginning it was a 2 person show. But now that you decided you want to keep the kid because 18 years worth of paychecks sounds better than working, the guy has no say?

Equal rights mean equal for all. Not equal when convenient.

Dear ATS member-

According to my notes from Sociology class...
Why guys are not as manly as they should be. At the age of 5 boys are not ready for school because their brains are not wired for the basics of reading and writing as compared to girls (Leanord Sax "Boys Adrift"). As a defense mechanism they stop trying and are labeled as "slow". Most are diagnosed with ADHD and are given drugs which help with their not feeling motivated.

Plastic bottles, chemical phalates and other plastic run'off from landfills caused fish to have no genetalia and the chemicals in the plastic are linked to smaller penis size and the labia-shaped construction of the testes in humans.This would lower testosterone and sex drive in males in their 20s. Hair spray and nail polish also have these chemicals which the child would have been exposed to from the mother.

Video games - When boys play video games they receive instant gratification plus "rewards" in the guise of more powers or a more challenging level for the main character as opposed to doing homework where the rewards are not instantly forthcoming.

Lack of male role models - due to losing father figures and no one to show masculine behavior which is disappointing because all cultures value hard work.

All of the above were points made by Sax in his book. Ultimately because of the males not pursuing their education there are less enrolled in college (60% women to 40% men) and the women are driven to finding the few "good ones" out there which leads to promiscuity.....which is a whole other topic.

The long and short of it perhaps is ....Maybe people of my generation (graduated H.S. 1986) by the consumption of GMOs, using plastic bottles (soda pop, water), divorce (where the mother is raising the child/ren alone) or single-parent homes.... we have inadvertently contributed to the lack of motivation and/or reversal of roles for our kids. In my daughters graduating class of 100, one boy was professed to be gay, 6 were "normal" and the rest of the boys were "metro-sexual" (tanned, groomed in regards to clothing, hair, waxing, mani and pedicures). Even in college more than half the males she met on campus or in class were gay.

It seems that the women of our society are taking on the male role of educated, head of household, breadwinner etc., while the male is more passive and more apt to be less motivated. Granted, there are exceptions to the rules, but in this little slice of western NY.....well

As far as women are concerned - during the feminism movement of the 70s females starting acting like men in the terms of sex and love. Females were encouraged to further their education rather than settle down into marriage which takes away from the "courtship rituals". Birth control came on the market which severed the relationship between reproduction and sex.

"Understanding Hook-up Culture" by Paula England - Dates (which are supposed to mean more) come after the hook-ups but have lost their intention because the act of sex came first. Females who play the system by being promiscuous (like men are expected to do) are labeled as a "slut" and are viewed harshly by society as a woman not "good enough" to marry per se, but "good enough" to sleep with.

Kathleen Bogle "Hooking Up" - As compared to making the choice to be with one man for the rest of your life, birth control makes it possible to find Mr. Right for only tonight with no repercussions. Hooking up on college campuses started with men and women being in close proximity. Because of the slim-pickins on campus as far as male/female ratio, the act of sex doesn't equal love for the men due to widespread availability of porn and so many females to one male, whereas for the female she is hoping for the follow-up phone call from the guy. No modesty is left for todays young women in terms of how they dress, act and present themselves. Society does not expect her to say "no" (look at popular ads) and if she does, then abuse and hostility usually follow.

Just a few ingredients to add to the soup....

Originally posted by smyleegrl

Because I live in the south, and women are "trained" to be meek, quiet, and subservient.

Really?

Which Baptist state is that?

Because it's not so much the case in TX,

Seems a myth of yesteryear.

I digress... going OT heh.

So, but much of the pseudo-logic being bandied about in this thread -- it's women's fault that men aren't as manly as they once were. How convienient.

I'm curious, though. What would it take for you guys to recapture your missing manhood?

Seriously, I would like to know.

Since the first negatively used word concerning men is "feminization" and the second concept is a negative statement on women, I have to rate this thread misogyny. Fail.

Originally posted by maria_stardust
So, but much of the pseudo-logic being bandied about in this thread -- it's women's fault that men aren't as manly as they once were. How convienient.

I'm curious, though. What would it take for you guys to recapture your missing manhood?

Seriously, I would like to know.

I never knew mine was missing.

Wanna see how many push ups I can do?!?!?! j/k

The real issue to me is that some just have it way easier and rely on their parents for everything so they don't have to jump out of the nest and spread those wings and hopefully fly.

Instead they just hang around the nest.

To me, it just seems a lot of people lack any motivation, for anything, at all.

It is what it is. We don't have a long history of how men and women behaved over thousands of years. There are some facts though, men are physically stronger, women carry babies, both are equally intelligent. If we can forget about stereotypes, then we will get along better. Men don't have to always be macho, to be men, that was an overplayed stereotype anyway, and women don't have to be quiet and subservient to be women, same for them.

reply to post by Lysergic


It's refreshing to see a man confident with his manliness.

Thank you for stating the obvious in your very Lysergiceseque way. That each individual is responsible for what they make of their own lives. The blaming of others for one's own deficiencies is a poor excuse, indeed.

Originally posted by Lysergic

Originally posted by smyleegrl

Because I live in the south, and women are "trained" to be meek, quiet, and subservient.

Really?

Which Baptist state is that?

Because it's not so much the case in TX,

Seems a myth of yesteryear.

I digress... going OT heh.

edit on 22-8-2012 by Lysergic because: (no reason given)

TN, but it was a LONG time ago.....

Originally posted by maria_stardust
So, but much of the pseudo-logic being bandied about in this thread -- it's women's fault that men aren't as manly as they once were. How convienient.

I'm curious, though. What would it take for you guys to recapture your missing manhood?

Seriously, I would like to know.

Ultimately being in a state of mind where any random woman would shake at the core of her being after being exposed to just a few sunrays bouncing off my godly body is what would work for me.

But in all seriousness, a woman can never do anything for a guy to make him believe he has recaptured or found his manhood because the point is he does this for himself without the help of others (especially women) and others recognize it as such, but not because he has a desire to prove his masculinity because that might make it appear dependent on others' view. Not even cheering him on, he has to motivate himself and not because a woman or anyone else told him to. Only a person can make up their own power in their own minds and take it, someone else pretending there is doesn't make it real and a guy could live out his life with a fake image of manhood seeing it as real.

What is the definition of recapturing ones manhood, or womanhood even, and does it vary from individual to individual?

Some may think the most high frequency, positive interpretations of male energies and females need to be joined, wedded in the infinite spectrum of individual rays, for wholeness, and even progression. Ie. Freedom, Sovereignity, Creativeness, wedded to Unconditional Love, and Equality, being very flexible and ensuring a win/win for all despite their unique circumstances. That does it for me.

I think some of the problem, especially over the last generation, is pop-culture in general. Not all of the problem, mind you, but some.

Try and turn on the tv without seeing a commercial where the man isn't a bumbling moron who needs his wife to explain to him what yogurt is, or how to do dishes without somehow setting the house on fire. And most television shows pretty much revolve around the mother of a family being strong and together, and the father basically being just another one of the children the wife has to keep in line.

I think the excepted and popular attitude many women have toward men (they're all morons, dogs and children) causes these young guys to not even want to bother trying, honestly.

Mind you, I'm not blaming all women for all of these guy's problems, I'm just saying this popular mindset probably isn't helping matters any.

I'd also like to add that, as a woman, I'm all for woman's rights. But I also have no problems letting the man of my house actually BE the man of the house. I don't compete with him for what I feel is his job. Mutual respect and admiration of inherent traits is important, and I think in a lot of ways we've lost sight of that as a society.