Does the award for the greatest evil go to Satan or God?

reply to post by autowrench


I used the term 'foundational books', meaning that it is not the only book or teaching that they would stem from solely. I am referring to modern Theosophy erected for the modern New Age Movement.

The modern Theosophy god is Satan and that the roots of the older Theosophy are the ancient mystery religions all stemming from Semiramis, Nimrod and Tammuz whom were morphed into Astarte and Marduk or the traditional father, mother, child . This is when Satan had his influence from there on...influencing the priests.

reply to post by autowrench


In the hand or on the forehead is a reference to language used in the Old Testament

It is relating to keeping the Divine Law...

Deuteronomy 6:
4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:
5 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes[foreheads, NIV 1984 edition].

and again

Deuteronomy 11:8 Therefore you shall keep every commandment that I have commanded you today...
...18 Therefore you shall lay up these words of mine in your heart and in your soul, and bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes [foreheads, NIV 1984 edition]

Exodus 13: 9 (and verse16) And it shall be for a sign unto you upon your hand, and for a memorial before your eyes, that the LORD'S law may be in your mouth: for with a strong hand has the LORD brought you out of Egypt.

reply to post by WarminIndy

That can be applied to anything.

Coming out of the Roman empire, destroys 3 nations, is a persecuting power of God's people for 1260 years, is a religio-political power in one, will reside on 7 hills

These descriptions alone means that it can not be anything. Those descriptions just there rule out everything else other than the papacy.

This is what the major protestant reformers throughout history have said....are they all wrong too?

By 900 A.D., "Tergandus, Bishop of Treves, called the Pope antichrist, yea, a wolf, and Rome, Babylon" (Martyrs Mirror, 5th English edition, p. 240).

In the tenth century, Arnulphus, Bishop of Orleans, called the Pope Antichrist, in a full council at Rheims (Peter Allix, The Ecclesiastical History of the Ancient Churches of Piedmont, 1821, p. 229).

The Waldensian treatise titled the Noble Lesson, dated 1100 A.D., stated: "Antichrist, the predicted murderer of the Saints, hath already appeared in his true character, seated monarchally in the seven-hilled city." In 1120 or 1160 A.D., A Treatise Concerning Antichrist identified the Pope of Rome as the Antichrist. George Faber identifies this as a production of Peter the Valdo (Faber, pp. 379-384).

In 1206, the Albigenses made the following confession: "That the Church of Rome was not the spouse of Christ, but the Church of confusion, drunk with the blood of the martyrs. That the polity of the Church of Rome was neither good nor holy, nor established by Jesus Christ" (Peter Allix, The Ecclesiastical History of the Ancient Churches of the Albigenses, 1821 edition, first published in 1692, p. 178).

Throughout the Reformation era, Rome was considered the Mother of Harlots. On September 9, 1560, Pastor Jean Louis Paschale of Calabria, just before he was burned alive in the presence of Pope Pius IV in Rome, turned to the Pope and "arraigned him as the enemy of Christ, the persecutor of his people, and the Anti-Christ of Scripture, and concluded by summoning him and all his cardinals to answer for their cruelties and murders before the throne of the Lamb" (J.A. Wylie, History of the Waldenses, c1860, p. 120).

William Tyndale identified the Pope as Antichrist in his treatise "The Practice of Prelates" and in his Preface to the 1534 edition of the New Testament. Many of the early Protestant Bibles contained artwork that portrays the Scarlet Woman of Revelation 17, and identifies the Roman Catholic Church as this apostate religion. In his 1893 work titled Union with Rome, Bishop Christopher Wordsworth of the Church of England stated the view which prevailed among Protestants at that time: "... we tremble at the sight, while we read the inscription, emblazoned in large letters, `Mystery, Babylon the Great,' written by the hand of St. John, guided by the Holy Spirit of God, on the forehead of the Church of Rome."

John Wesley's Notes; But he that had the mark, namely, the name of the first beast, or the number of his name - The name of the beast is that which he bears through his whole duration; namely, that of Papa or Pope: the number of his name is the whole time during which he bears this name. Whosoever, therefore, receives the mark of the beast does as much as if he said expressly, "I acknowledge the present Papacy, as proceeding from God;" or, "I acknowledge that what St. Gregory VII. has done, according to his legend, (authorized by Benedict XIII.,) and what has been maintained in virtue thereof, by his successors to this day, is from God." By the former, a man hath the name of the beast as a mark; by the latter, the number of his name. In a word, to have the name of the beast is, to acknowledge His papal Holiness; to have the number of his name is, to acknowledge the papal succession. The second beast will enforce the receiving this mark under the severest penalties. (John Wesley, Explanatory Notes on the Whole Bible, Revelation 13:17)

During the Reformation, when scripture was exploding off the Protestant printing presses in the common tongue, instead of Latin, it became apparent to students of Bible prophecy that the Antichrist beast and apostate Mystery Babylon of the books of Daniel and Revelation was already on the scene, and had been for over a thousand years! Because of their Bible study, John Wycliff, John Hus, William Tyndale, Martin Luther, Philipp Melanchthon, John Calvin, John Knox, Huldreich Zwingli, and John Wesley all identified the Papacy of the Roman Catholic Church as the Antichrist power and apostate Mystery Babylon, as did many others. If the giants of the Reformation came to this conclusion, some even being burned at the stake for their belief, then when and how did Protestantism abandon the Historicist interpretation and adopt Futurism, where the Antichrist is some unknown unidentified figure off in the future?
source

reply to post by JesuitGarlic


Way to take that off of an obscure website. That couldn't possibly be some nutjob's blog that you decided would be convenient to quote.

Try again...this time, CREDENTIALS!

Originally posted by Samuelis
Some would say god transcends duality. He is neither good or evil but rather both at the same time. That is if he even exists. I would say man created satan, so man win's hands down.

Gods may trancend duality to some but records show that they would be in the minority. Most religions throughout history are shown to believe in androgynous Gods.

Human nature defaults to the good and so does any God worthy of man's respect. Evil is not a good survival tool for evolving species. Be they Gods or men.

As to your last. You are correct. As to seeking God; I would advise it. It paid off for me.

Regards
DL

reply to post by Samuelis

Some would say god transcends duality. He is neither good or evil but rather both at the same time. That is if he even exists. I would say man created satan, so man win's hands down.

Good and evil are how we feel about things. In truth, they are simply a mixture of positive and negative. Just like everything else, any act creates positive and negative energy.

"God" is neither positive nor negative. "God" is, in part, the FLOW of positive and negative. Imagine a vast sea of positive and negative energy, swirling and flowing and lapping against the environment, oozing and rippling away from different animals and people. That is part of "God". That's like looking at one finger.

Originally posted by EnochWasRight

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
Total kill count according to the bible:

God - 2 million plus

Satan - 10

You do the math.

Total souls brought back in the resurrection to see Christ return from taking our sin on Himself. 7,000,000,000 . I would say God has both statistics beat.

Total souls that deny truth? Unknown

www.youtube.com...

Regards
DL

reply to post by Greatest I am

Originally posted by Greatest I am

Originally posted by EnochWasRight

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
Total kill count according to the bible:

God - 2 million plus

Satan - 10

You do the math.

Total souls brought back in the resurrection to see Christ return from taking our sin on Himself. 7,000,000,000 . I would say God has both statistics beat.

Total souls that deny truth? Unknown

Considering that only the believers in Jesus would be "saved", I'd have to suggest cutting your 7,000,000,000 in half. Maybe even down to a quarter. Not quite so impressive, I think.

Apparently, your "God" has trouble with math. Either that, or his followers do. It comes out to about the same thing.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by Samuelis

 

Some would say god transcends duality. He is neither good or evil but rather both at the same time. That is if he even exists. I would say man created satan, so man win's hands down.

Good and evil are how we feel about things. In truth, they are simply a mixture of positive and negative. Just like everything else, any act creates positive and negative energy.

"God" is neither positive nor negative. "God" is, in part, the FLOW of positive and negative. Imagine a vast sea of positive and negative energy, swirling and flowing and lapping against the environment, oozing and rippling away from different animals and people. That is part of "God". That's like looking at one finger.

In regards to the good and evil, positive and negative.... Kind of reminds me of the subconscious mind. It makes sense to me, anyway. :-)

It's like the subconscious mind being similar to saved information on a hard dive. We are " backed up" for later use.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

Originally posted by Greatest I am

Originally posted by EnochWasRight

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
Total kill count according to the bible:

God - 2 million plus

Satan - 10

You do the math.

Total souls brought back in the resurrection to see Christ return from taking our sin on Himself. 7,000,000,000 . I would say God has both statistics beat.

Total souls that deny truth? Unknown

Considering that only the believers in Jesus would be "saved", I'd have to suggest cutting your 7,000,000,000 in half. Maybe even down to a quarter. Not quite so impressive, I think.

Apparently, your "God" has trouble with math.

Either that, or his followers do. It comes out to about the same thing.

edit on 22-8-2012 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

I'm assuming ( could be wrong) he meant what he said. We have ALL incarnated once again to watch the story not only unfold but come around full circle, back in the Garden of peace and tranquility where there is not positive and negative.... Just positive.

His followers may not even know they follow him. We are ALL his followers and the way you followed him may not only surprise you but it may even drop you to your knees. Anythings possible!

reply to post by MamaJ

We are ALL his followers and the way you followed him may not only surprise you but it may even drop you to your knees. Anythings possible!

That's not what the Bible says. There are requirements to fulfill. See, you don't even know what you're talking about!

For something that is so absolute, there is certainly a lot of confusion!

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by MamaJ

 

We are ALL his followers and the way you followed him may not only surprise you but it may even drop you to your knees. Anythings possible!

That's not what the Bible says. There are requirements to fulfill. See, you don't even know what you're talking about!

For something that is so absolute, there is certainly a lot of confusion!

Oh no? That's what I read.....

What requirements?

Confusion arises when you talk too much and not listen. Listening helps when trying to obtain truth, otherwise you become the master of your own truth.

What is it about Jesus or God that you cannot come to terms with?

Right. We have trouble conceptualizing how God will judge with mercy and grace. His ideal of judgment could very well be a positive judgement in many ways. I also think that we will judge ourselves simply by knowing the truth in an instant. Instead of questions or arguments, it will simply be seen by us for what it is. More of an instant realization and moment of peripeteia. That's really the best work that could be used. Peripeteia happens when that turning point of discovery happens and we have a sudden epiphany.

Originally posted by Lazarus Short
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

OK, I've read the whole thread, well I skimmed some (not your posts), and I think I see where you're going with this. I also read the Humpty Dumpty thread.

Your mention of the four elements as obstacles for us to overcome in order to reach the fifth (Spirit) reminds me of that movie "The Fifth Element," though the movie opts for entertainment rather than enlightenment.

Regarding your Alexander Pope quote, Oscar Wilde said, "There are two ways of disliking poetry: one way is to dislike it, the other is to read Pope." I liked what Pope had to say here, however.

I believe that God made both good and evil, warned us of evil for our own protection (out of love), and will yet vindicate Himself on this issue, not only for mankind but for the entire created cosmos. The skeptics, scoffers, and cynics will be put to shame for their lack of understanding and unbelief.

Originally posted by Murgatroid

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
You know the world is totally f***ed when grown adults start putting their faith in bedtime stories...

I'll take God's word over bedtime "stories" by the "Synagogue of Satan" ANY day.

THEY are the ones you can thank for your "f***ed" up beliefs and your "f***ed" up world.

As far as I am concerned, neither one wrote a book, and did not have a stenographer on duty. There are no "God's Words," and there are no "Satan's Words," what we have here is MAN'S words.
Ever read a good fiction story? Who is to say what you believe in is fiction, after all?

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

Originally posted by Greatest I am

Originally posted by EnochWasRight

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
Total kill count according to the bible:

God - 2 million plus

Satan - 10

You do the math.

Total souls brought back in the resurrection to see Christ return from taking our sin on Himself. 7,000,000,000 . I would say God has both statistics beat.

Total souls that deny truth? Unknown

Considering that only the believers in Jesus would be "saved", I'd have to suggest cutting your 7,000,000,000 in half. Maybe even down to a quarter. Not quite so impressive, I think.

Apparently, your "God" has trouble with math.

Either that, or his followers do. It comes out to about the same thing.

edit on 22-8-2012 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

That is based on a false premise. Christ came for the sick and dying, not the righteous.

On hearing this, Jesus said to them, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."

John 2 then gives us the outline of this at the end.

23 Now while he was in Jerusalem at the Passover Festival, many people saw the signs he was performing and believed in his name. 24 But Jesus would not entrust himself to them, for he knew all people. 25 He did not need any testimony about mankind, for he knew what was in each person.

They were seeking him, yet it was not time for Him to entrust himself to them. Why? Those souls are already know by God. Repentance is the act of baptism, yet not the symbolic baptism we do in the waters of the church. The baptism that is our repentance is the life we are given by falling into the water. It's often said that baptism does not save us. This is very true, but baptism is the process we were given in order to save us. This is a little known fact that can be gleaned from the book, the Shepherd of Hermas. Once you see this clearly, it all makes sense. We are baptized for repentance. It is the repentance. How many times are we baptized? That depends and none of us can answer this. The only thing that we can know for sure is that John 3 gives us the key to getting out of the waters. It won't happen until Jesus sees a change in our hearts. Until then, we are baptized by water and then fire. Water puts out fire. Don't forget this.

You are here to be saved. Repentance is baptism. Did you catch that? We are here to turn from our sin and overcome. Overcome what? Our own nature. Don't count on another chance, although God is long-suffering.

Haven't you ever watched Lost? They were sent to an island, yet they were in the real world as well. What they did on the island affected them in the natural world. There was a good and bad spirit on the island tempting them, yet often, they found the correct path. It's a good resource to see this clearly.

reply to post by EnochWasRight

You are here to be saved. Repentance is baptism. Did you catch that? We are here to turn from our sin and overcome. Overcome what? Our own nature. Don't count on another chance, although God is long-suffering.

I have been though the baptism thing, in a river. Does that mean I am
repented? And friend, You may be here for that, but I myself rose above slavery to faith a long time ago. And I happen to love my own nature. Took me a rather long time to get to where I am. Your version of God will no doubt do what you think he will, but that will not affect me in the least. When this cycle is over, I am going Home.
You probably wouldn't like it there.

reply to post by autowrench


If you don't mind me asking, where are you going after you die? Do you believe in reincarnation or what? Just curious.

Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

You are here to be saved. Repentance is baptism. Did you catch that? We are here to turn from our sin and overcome. Overcome what? Our own nature. Don't count on another chance, although God is long-suffering.

I have been though the baptism thing, in a river. Does that mean I am
repented? And friend, You may be here for that, but I myself rose above slavery to faith a long time ago. And I happen to love my own nature. Took me a rather long time to get to where I am. Your version of God will no doubt do what you think he will, but that will not affect me in the least. When this cycle is over, I am going Home.
You probably wouldn't like it there.

Where is home? My version or your version is irrelevant. If there is a perspective to share, why hide?

Originally posted by d8track
First off there is no such thing as good or evil in the natural world. It's a human concept. The satanist may believe helping someone in need is an evil act because the are selfish. The christian may believe not helping someone in need is evil.
So to answer your question what is the greatest evil and who do you think is to blame for it, you have to decide what the greatest evil is. I think causing harm, murder, and torchering anything innocent is up there. So as history has proven, in what name have these sins been done the most. Remember it's humans doing the act.

Sure but if created, we are and do as created to do.
Culpability is then to the creator.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

You are here to be saved. Repentance is baptism. Did you catch that? We are here to turn from our sin and overcome. Overcome what? Our own nature. Don't count on another chance, although God is long-suffering.

I have been though the baptism thing, in a river. Does that mean I am
repented? And friend, You may be here for that, but I myself rose above slavery to faith a long time ago. And I happen to love my own nature. Took me a rather long time to get to where I am. Your version of God will no doubt do what you think he will, but that will not affect me in the least. When this cycle is over, I am going Home.
You probably wouldn't like it there.

In my opinion...

In the river you symbolized on Earth the act of rebirth without actually dying and then reincarnating back to Earth.

There is no doubt in my little mind you have reincarnated many times, but what Enoch is saying ( I think) we are all incarnated at this time to " watch" the cycle of rebirth end.

Turning away from sin could also be said to be when we reach our (personal) souls goal within the spirit/flesh combo. We are all trying to reach the first days of Eden where we are one (atonement) with God with both spirit and flesh. It's like a spirit evolution we are attempting to reach. When we don't reach our goals, we are missing the mark, or " sinning ".

Loving your own nature is good, but your nature just like mine is a little on the tainted side. It's not what it CAN be and what it was. We have a veil over our eyes, we do not remember our goals, we do not live our life as if we are perfect in spirit and flesh as our flesh overcomes our spirit time and time again. It creates conflict within our being and others. We are not our true nature, but the time is coming when we will be.

I'm sure it has taken you a long time to get where you are spiritually. Our journeys are so different, yet the same. We are always overcoming something. We get tired of the same ole day in and day out trials and tribulations. We want peace and harmony with our self and others. We want to live in paradise where we are constantly at peace and not filled with sorrow. We want the answers.... We look daily for truth to our existence all the while Gods light and beauty is singing down on us yelling look at me, here I am. Over here, you see the birds, do you hear them singing? They are singing for you, it is my song to you. Do we hear? Do we listen with a keen ear or are we focused on what we can see verses what we feel in our heart?

The cycle is indeed almost over and you and I will be going home to the same God as the rest of us.