Too Welsh To ...sing "God Save The Queen" but not welsh enough to wear another nations name?

Originally posted by Freeborn
reply to post by Merriman Weir

 

That Sir is the possibly the best post, well ok then two posts, I have possibly seen here on ATS.

I take my hat off to you - I may even have to 'borrow' bits, or possibly even all of it, at some time in the future - obviously giving acknowledgement to it's author whilst doing so.

LOL I didn't author history: that was French madman Geoffrey of Monmouth who created an historical fantasy work to fill in the gaps in what he knew (ie most of it).

This is common or garden history, or, if you like, history with the Mel Gibson taken out. Too often British history is all about kings and queens conquering this, that or the other. 9 times of of 10, people forget that, each time, it's the English that suffer first.

As a Welshman living in England I personally would prefer a federal arrangement remaining for the UK and especially the Island of Great Britain. I don't like the fact that my taxes paid in England fund the higher per-capita spending on people in Wales/Scotland/Northern Ireland as most of my English friends feel it is clearly not equitable.

Regarding the national anthem, well, I don't believe in any gods and I don't support the political arrangement of a constitutional monarchy so it's a song I will not sing myself - I am not disruptive when it is sung, but I could not sing it for obvious hypocritical reasons.

Now, on to Cardiff City FC selling out to their Malaysian owners - they're currently a laughing stock to the rest of Wales - Bluebirds playing in red to appease their paymasters! They've always been blue, we (Swansea, where I was born and raised) have always been white, and Wrexham have always been red.
Cardiff are not the "greatest" team in Wales, ok they won the FA cup in 1927 but thats pretty much it. Swansea are in the premier league for our second season now, we had a fantastic 0-5 win over QPR at the weekend, and you know what, the club is owned by the supporters trust and a few local businessmen and women - not dirty Russian money or unconnected foreign investors.

What is also great this season is that our away kit has the colours of the Welsh flag now, red shirt, green socks and white logos - it's almost a dig at the former 'Bluebirds' 35 miles down the M4 from us lol

...and as far as being "true" English/Welsh or whatever, we're a mongrel island to be fair, having been invaded many times in history. Most of my English mates have a Welsh/Scottish/Irish Great Grandparent somewhere in their family history so I'm convinced this pure blood national identity thing doesnt really exist except in the minds of radicals, or close knit non-urban areas of the land.

reply to post by Merriman Weir


Excellent summary

Just like to add that the 'Scottish wars of Independence' were led by William Wallace (whose surname means Welshman) and Robert de Brus (who as his name suggests, was a Norman. Just like the English king). Later, Scotland was ruled by the House of Stuart. Which was founded by an Norman from England. This is conveniently forgotten.

Originally posted by AndyMayhew
reply to post by Merriman Weir

 

Excellent summary

Just like to add that the 'Scottish wars of Independence' were led by William Wallace (whose surname means Welshman) and Robert de Brus (who as his name suggests, was a Norman. Just like the English king). Later, Scotland was ruled by the House of Stuart. Which was founded by an Norman from England. This is conveniently forgotten.

Cheers! I was struggling to fit all that in 2 posts (I knew I was lucky if anyone read 2 posts; 3 would have really been pushing it), which was why I missed out a lot of stuff like the Norman influence on Scotland. The Norman and late French influence - which is often acknowledged, romanticised and capitalised on - just ties into the nonsensical 'anyone but the English' mentality too many people in Wales, Ireland and Scotland have.

None of this is 'secret history'. It's the history that's generally accepted as fact and the real reading of history (beyond social histories &c). Yet, the way many people talk, whether it's nationalists, racists, Americans romanticising an imagined past (the latter, I can understand to an extent) or whatever, you'd think all of this was gobbledygook that I was making up.

Anyway, we've an awful lot of history for such a small place.

Also, was listening to Broadsword this morning.

Originally posted by Merriman Weir

Also, was listening to Broadsword this morning.

It was the album that first introduced me to Tull

Of course, everyone knowns that Jethro Tull is an ENGLISH band, don't they? Fronted by a mad flutist from ........ Scotland

Originally posted by Shminkee Pinkee

Originally posted by Dr Expired
It is truly amazing on a site that is dedicated to "denying ignorance" that the whole crux of the op's post is not comprehended or ilfully ignored...plese note not denied...that would take some of the respondents to actually read not skim.
No on ehas commented on a proud Welsh team with over a hundred years of tradition being forced by its new Malaysian owners to wear "MALAYSIA" on both the front and back of its team shirts.
Sorry yes Tim Allen doesn't play for Cardiff my silly error..apologies.

I know many will feel the same way as I do , about this , its a free country , I just wonder how the Americans on this site would feel if The New York Yankees had to change their strip and wear 'CHINA" on their uniforms against their history and traditions, because the club was bought out by Chinese big business.

The denying of the cultural and imperial take over by Asian interests of western nations cultural icons may not be of any interst or consequence to some , but to many others it is.

So be it.

Personally it doesn't matter what country name is on the kit, if you knew anything about British football, you'd know that most of the teams are foreign owned and some of the stadiums names have been changed, i.e. the Emirates etc. it doesn't bother me, I just want to watch the footy, inevitably in live things change, if you don't change with them you get left behind. :-)

Personally as a British born ...lifetime fan of foootball who may know more than you summise about the history and politics of English Football...I do care deeply if a foreign nation has their letters boldly emblazened on Cardiff Citys shirt.

Why?
If you need explanation then ...there is no point in digressing any further on that score.

Israel, Japan, Iran, China, India, Russia, Turkey, ect ect all value their historical traditions, if British people object to the selling out of their traditions they are branded racist or extremists, people whose Grandfathers died , after being ordered , goaded , persuaded, ect by governments to defend British values , traditions and culture.

We are not talking a few hundred , a few thousand , hundreds of thousands, but millions of either mutilated , disfigured (horrendously), internally shattered, or killed Britains who were told British culture was worth fighting for.

Yes now we have a London where its hard to know which nation you are in in certain areas, we have more mosques than churches, and Football teams that existed before the horrors of WW1 and ww2 now owned by Middle Eastern dictators,American moguls, Malaysian Mega rich Individuals, Russian Billionaires,ect ect, until the top tier of English football is owned by all but the British.

Is that what my Grandfather wanted?
Do you think those who lost limbs, faces, dignity?...fought for?
For greedy selfish so called Brits to sell out their nations for silver, for gold, a mere few decades later?

When Britain was decimated by war dead and injured, if somehow the present Britain was displayed in front of them how do you think they would feel?
The crux of this thread has been hijacked , twisted and ridiculed, just like the memories of theEnglish, Scottish, Irish, and WELSH , who fought off The Spanish, French, German, Russian , neo ottoman empire nations, who attempted to enslave Britain.
And you say it does not matter?
It matters to those who care about the sacrifice of millions.
It matters to those who even consider what they sacrificed.
It matters to those who cherish love over corruption.
It matters.

Woah calm down, with all of that self righteous rhetoric please, It's not my fault rich foreigners buy up footie teams, What has loosing limbs in a war got to do with who owns a football team, I believe your horse may be too high :-)

Originally posted by Shminkee Pinkee
Woah calm down, with all of that self righteous rhetoric please, It's not my fault rich foreigners buy up footie teams, What has loosing limbs in a war got to do with who owns a football team, I believe your horse may be too high :-)

I see your cheeky snibbing and wonder if you are simply being trollish or have not the insight of intellect (is that self righteous enough) to recognise the imperialistic motives of a rich dubious or nit owner of Cardiff City placing his own nations NAME onto the front and back of a historically significant British Football team.

Ihave said enough on this subject, and yes my horse is too high, these shackles that keep me down , how could it be otherwise.
Never bow down to those that want to buy your soul with money.
Throw their money into the sewer , and breathe in the perfume of freedom.
Oh my God the horse is looking bigger and bigger, I hope it doesn't fancy my ass.

Originally posted by Dr Expired

Originally posted by Shminkee Pinkee
Woah calm down, with all of that self righteous rhetoric please, It's not my fault rich foreigners buy up footie teams, What has loosing limbs in a war got to do with who owns a football team, I believe your horse may be too high :-)

I see your cheeky snibbing and wonder if you are simply being trollish or have not the insight of intellect (is that self righteous enough

) to recognise the imperialistic motives of a rich dubious or nit owner of Cardiff City placing his own nations NAME onto the front and back of a historically significant British Football team.

Ihave said enough on this subject, and yes my horse is too high, these shackles that keep me down , how could it be otherwise.
Never bow down to those that want to buy your soul with money.
Throw their money into the sewer , and breathe in the perfume of freedom.
Oh my God the horse is looking bigger and bigger, I hope it doesn't fancy my ass.

I literally do not have a clue what you are talking about :-????