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For Adults who refuse to grow up, Is Christianity the Adult version for Santa Clauss

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posted on Aug, 12 2012 @ 02:11 AM
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Originally posted by ahnggk

Originally posted by jeantherapy
I'd hate to take something away from people if it comforts them but ultimately I see this worship as very destructive. I am the kind of person that always wants to know the truth, no matter how painful it may be to learn.


The true teachings of Jesus will cost you everything, your relationships, your dreams, your properties, and finally your life!

This is the only 'religion' that will ask you to sell ALL your possessions, give all the proceeds to the poor, then live like a wanderer for the rest of your life in order to have eternal life. Does this sound good to you??

Eternal life may not be what most people think. You are to tend the 'Garden of Eden'. It's like a very huge forest and you won't have any gadgets, houses, luxury SUVs, technology especially, and entertainment systems there. You won't have a bed to sleep, in fact, you won't sleep at all. 'Worst' of all, you could be asked to return to Earth and take part in the End Times and die a horrible death like two witnesses (Enoch being one of them) and also Daniel.

Mainstream Christians do not really know Jesus and what is in store in Eternity. Cowards especially are not allowed inside. Cowardice is a big sin. So now think, why would the Kingdom of God and Heaven, would require men of women who are exceptionally brave, not afraid of anything, even torture but fear God only?


Sounds like somebody is delusional

How do you understand that, where is that taught in Gods word.
Thats a little off, that is not Christian doctrine.
Corinthians teaches that we are one community with many parts. Some are called to teach, some preach some to financially support. Different people have different gifts.
You are talking some strange wierdo stuff, how about backing it up.

The true teaching of Jesus costs you nothing, Jesus has already paid the price.




posted on Aug, 12 2012 @ 02:14 AM
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Originally posted by MagnumOpus
One of the things that most notice is the story of Santa Clauss given to children around Christmas is very similar to the story told to Christians for Jesus. So, is Jesus the Santa for those who refuse to grow up, as they learn Santa is all made up?


If individuals having a Christian faith doesn't negatively affect other peoples' rights, what is the problem?

Surely, unless religious rights start to interfere with your secular rights, Christians are free to worship as they choose.







edit on 12-8-2012 by ollncasino because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 12 2012 @ 06:09 AM
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Originally posted by Hefficide
reply to post by MagnumOpus
 


While I do totally agree that the Santa Claus myth is based upon Christian lore, I see the similarity stopping there. Religion is a matter of personal preference and faith. Santa Claus requires no faith because he is "proven" every December the twenty-fifth.

Faith is a complex and personal choice that people make in their lives. Everybody with faith has a reason for feeling the way that they do. I don't know many religious people who are deeply faithful simply because they were told to be. Most have had very trying circumstances that led them into belief. And if it helps them be happy and to lead more fulfilled lives, then good for them.

~Heff


I do think little kids have to take Santa on Faith, because it is a fantasy really. When children are pre-school and 1st grade most believe in Santa, except for maybe one that says his dad told him there was no Santa. All the other kids go into denial and attack that kid because they left cookies and milk and Santa left a Thank You note and presents. Plus, the RADAR tracks him on TV Christmas Nite. And, they have a Photo of themselves sitting on Santa's Lap, and Santa brought what they asked of Santa.

Then about 4th grade and beyond many more kids learn that Santa is not real because they have either caught the parents in the middle of the night or spotted their Santa presents hidden in the house. But, some are still in denial and some little girls cry and little boys are upset about learning their favorite Santa is fake. Santa never really asked to be seen as god, and as the truth comes out they find it is all about a tradition. But one that eventually leds to disillusionment. Then, the tradition continues and the parents don't have to play Santa. But the pretty lights, Christmas Trees, and holiday music cheer up the grey of winter. But the kids learn they were had with a lot of people telling them there was a Santa.

When one follows the learning cure of the Bible on Jesus, many issues come into question per Jesus being god, when they discover the John Comma, and the John theme for Jesus not having gone to the Father after his Resurrection. So, as in the case of many people promoting Santa was real, a like question comes up for many people promoting Jesus is god, but the first lie is spotted in print and in history. It appears the same sort of reactions that little kids in denial have, just more severe with comments like hate tossed at those reading more carefully and being in search for truth. Anytime anyone questions if Jesus is god, the Christians have to turn to slurs against those that read their own book to which they say they ascribe and read of the forgery and precise wording. It seems that similar happened with the learning Santa was fake in many person's childhood, and some tossed names then also against the one kid that was not lied to about Santa by his parents.

It is the same process of kids in schools learning from others that Santa was not real, and some hated those with the parents that told them the truth on Santa. The believer kids, at the time, hated the non-believer kids telling the truth of the matter of Santa. So, there is a question on the URL about if teaching kids false issues is good. Certainly the outfall is the believers call the non-believers bad names. One side violates the truth and devalues the truth. Those that buy the lies often attack those that don't buy the lie. The fantasy causes problems with the kids, some cry, some are disillusioned, some call names. They eventually move forward knowing so many presented a fantasy which they bought into. But from then forward they learned to be more sceptical on talking matters on faith. They learn the truth and couch Santa into a known fantasy tale, and there are no more battles for what is the truth.

So, don't we see some of the issues here on ATS about some that take issues on faith literally hating those that don't take things on faith and insist on critical thinking, seeing is believing, and a rational mind. Don't we see those that believe and have their faith consider those that don't buy their fantasy on Jesus being god as a lesser person that they will literally attack because the person didn't basically believe in Santa Clauss or a Jesus god.

Now, one can see this same level of thinking would affect America in world affairs, as most of the world does not buy that Jesus is god, nor buy Santa Clauss. Does it help the Christian to have faith in something not proven or does it cause serious problems in the world. What happens when it is shown that things like the Trinity Concept was forged into the Bible, and the fantasy begins to crumble. What happens when the world reads the words of Jesus not having been to the father during the Crucifiction and consider that he really didn't die. It would appear the Christians are allowed to talk badly of others that don't buy their story line, but let others speak about their beliefs appear to be beyond realistic thinking as they engage in the same sort of miracles that Santa has been promoted with and they become the mean kids on the block tossing out hate toward the non-belief that Jesus was god. It is even basically written in their Bible, but they go against what is written and the forgery known.

Thus, one must ask was belief in Santa a good start in life for children, did it cause the kids pain in learning the truth on Santa, and since the mantra of Santa is so close to the Jesus theme, does the same process not occur for those that study the Bible and discover more that Jesus was a man.

The proof is right here on ATS as to how Christian beliefs are used to attack others, as they go literally against the teachings of Jesus, go against the original words of John per Trinity forged, and go against Jesus not going to the father at Crucifiction day.

So, was this faith that remains unproven, and the story being shown to be false in many areas of Bible claims, really something that provides for peace in the world, or does the promotion of issues not based upon literal truth being used in discussions cause distrust, friction, hate, and loss of domestic tranquility toward others.

Should the people of world's relationship with others be based upon simple truth and reality, or upon the unproven fantasy and loss of rationality that causes the sort of problems with Christians hating others that don't trust their story line? More than half the world doesn't buy their story line. So, does their faith drive world hatred and wars against people that really read the Bible in search for the truth and the Bible explored tells Jesus was just a man.

In the case here on ATS, I think one well sees that faith in an unproven issue promotes attacks on others that just read for truth in their own Book, which they themselves ignore.


Truth is a unversal religion, not fantasy faiths. Truth sets the world free and provides for domestic tranquility, while faith promotes hate, fantasy departure from reality, and no common ground for world peace.

Should the world be based upon truth or fantasy...


edit on 12-8-2012 by MagnumOpus because: Should the world be based upon truth or fantasy



posted on Aug, 12 2012 @ 06:43 AM
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I have seen how many people rely on their religion for comfort and guidance. I've seen people get through hard times because they leaned on their faith. As long as they're not hurting other people, I don't have a problem with what someone believes. It's THEIR business. Who's to say what someone else should believe? As long as they don't force me to abide by their beliefs, I'm fine with it. I've seen people use religion to kill and to love. Some of the most loving and non-judgmental people have religion in their lives. Some of the most hateful and vile things are said and done in the name of religion.

It has nothing to do with "growing up". It's about beliefs (and we all have beliefs about things) and choices.

I do personally believe that the God story is a myth, generated to control and explain unexplainable things (much like Santa). But that's my personal opinion and I don't expect anyone to share it or try to convince me otherwise.



posted on Aug, 12 2012 @ 07:03 AM
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Originally posted by Conspirafail
reply to post by MagnumOpus
 


I hate you chose one religion instead of using a generalization which could equally apply to your thread. With that being said I suppose if one were go off of your op. the question may be was Santa based on a religious figure to pose these questions cheapens spirtuality as a whole but I respect you asking the question.


The problem is Christians do hate, and it shows.

Personally, I have not seen Islam acting bad on ATS, nor the Budhists, nor the other religions. ATS is dominated by the Christians, citations of Bible verse this and that, and really a lot of evangelism for selling Christianty to others using ATS as their podium..

If one asks from rational questions of their evangelism, the come apart at the seams, because there is no proof, only a lot of unproven words, a want of truth and a need for faith to sustain a fantasy.

Show me where Islam has been name calling on ATS, or Budhists. They occassionally present their issue and don't engage in name calling. I have seen the few that come to ATS to have been exceedingly polite.

Christians say read my book, and if one reads their book and finds all the problems, then they start calling names and attacking because you read their own book and made serious discoveries.

Like calling Jesus god is just like those that called Nimrod, Semiramus, and Tammuz as god----which is considered profane. Yet, the Christians think it isn't profane to call Jesus god, when Jesus was totally against these same "Whore of Babylon" (Semiramus) issues that Christians stick on Jesus name these days.

The true hate seems to come from Christians that can't bare to have others speak freely of these issues that look to be huge factors not based in truth. They attack and want the person to shut up and run them off.


It would appear that having Faith is the need to attack reality and truth. Can that be valued in a rational world, or does religion corrupt rationality and truth based persons?


The issue is faith isn't based upon truth, and most people univerally value truth around the world, but not the faith in Jesus being god.

Ever notice many Christians on ATS are literally against freedom of speech, as they have need to name call against others that bring up valid issues. Yet, Freedom of Speech is America's most respected non-religious right, which they would seek to deny others so they can promote a faith that appears not grounded upon truth and reality.


It appears the Jesus crowd doesn't know Jesus at all, and expouse hate toward folks that read their book and speak of the problems in comprehension of that book and where the book has been forged.

One has to wonder how they reacted to the loss of faith in Santa, since many have such outrageous conduct here that well goes against Jesus teachings.


When Faith overwhealms truth, wars begin, as that hate attempts to punish and stamp out truth.



edit on 12-8-2012 by MagnumOpus because: When Faith overwhealms truth, wars begin, as that hate attempts to punish and stamp out truth



posted on Aug, 12 2012 @ 08:01 AM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I have seen how many people rely on their religion for comfort and guidance. I've seen people get through hard times because they leaned on their faith. As long as they're not hurting other people, I don't have a problem with what someone believes. It's THEIR business. Who's to say what someone else should believe? As long as they don't force me to abide by their beliefs, I'm fine with it. I've seen people use religion to kill and to love. Some of the most loving and non-judgmental people have religion in their lives. Some of the most hateful and vile things are said and done in the name of religion.

It has nothing to do with "growing up". It's about beliefs (and we all have beliefs about things) and choices.

I do personally believe that the God story is a myth, generated to control and explain unexplainable things (much like Santa). But that's my personal opinion and I don't expect anyone to share it or try to convince me otherwise.



I think the issue is Christian belief do attempt to affect others and some get radical in those efforts. Their efforts promote faith over rational reality. They also interfere with Govt protected rights.

I think there is an issue of growing up with Santa faith as looking just like the god theme for children and even this Christian page professes this as an issue:




biblefocus.net...

The Effect
One may ask whether it matters about teaching a myth about another God to small children. One could argue that it prepares them to understand the nature of the true God. Alternatively, it may be considered that once the myth is shattered in later years it will become a source of distrust.

One can't help but think of the many references in the Bible to the service to other gods.


Joshua 24:20: If you forsake Yahweh, and serve foreign gods, then he will turn and do you evil, and consume you, after that he has done you good. WEB

It may seem pleasant to deceive children with myths about Santa Claus, but one has to ask whether it is really worth the price.




The oxymoron is that belief in Santa does teach them there are issues with the concept for Christian god, as the true concept of god from Joshus isn't a good concept for freedom.


So, kids are taught that departure from truth is OK, that truth is not of great value. Santa even looks like another god concept to kids.

One can even see that Bible teaches that if you don't believe in their god, they are allowed to destroy you. How is that any different than the Islam Infidel theme.

What it becomes is a hate for Freedom of Speech, one of America's most fought for rights, as Christians would push for only their mantra to be heard and others suppressed. It becomes an attack on Freedom of religion and being able to not be religious or have the view that Jesus isn't god.


We have, right here on ATS, clear examples for those whose god would be intent upon hurting others, harming their freedoms, and to injure their domestic well being with hate toward others.



posted on Aug, 12 2012 @ 08:02 AM
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Of course there are similarities!

Why contain it with Christianity? Virtually all religions offer you a reward at the end of life. Support your temple priests (be good) and they will tell you that you will be rewarded....later.



posted on Aug, 12 2012 @ 09:11 AM
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reply to post by MagnumOpus
 



Originally posted by MagnumOpus
I think the issue is Christian belief do attempt to affect others and some get radical in those efforts. ... They also interfere with Govt protected rights.


I agree completely! But religion is just the belief... it's the PEOPLE who practice warped interpretations of their religion (and the people in gov't who allow it) that USE religion to attempt to control people. The problem is that this is supposed to be a secular government. Our laws should NOT be based on religion. And the religious lobbies shouldn't have the influence that they do.

I agree with everything you said about Santa. I don't have kids, but if I did, I wouldn't try to pass off this fairy take as true. I can't figure why adults get such a thrill from lying to their kids, only to later have to fess up and admit they lied...



posted on Aug, 12 2012 @ 09:20 AM
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Originally posted by adjensen
This is a perfect example of a useless "haters" thread that should not be allowable by ATS, as per their own policies: Can we please have an irrelevant policy "sticky" removed?

If you believe that hatred, based on disagreements of faith, is something you don't want to see on ATS, please weigh in on that thread.

I read over the OP several times, and I have to say, I didn't see even an ounce of hate projected in the thread. The characteristics of Santa Claus are right on with popular lore. Children today are still taught that Santa is real, and will reward, or punish them depending on how good they are, and Santa is said to keep a list, too. The OP made a comparison, and, according to the NT, Jesus promised the same thing, reward or punishment, depending on how good or bad you were in life. It is a valid comparison, and I fail to see how you get hate from that.

It appears Jesus is the very root for the Santa theme with gifts being brought afar to the child.

This too, is quite valid.

In the United States and Canada, his name is Santa Claus.

In China, he is called Shengdan Laoren.

In England, his name is Father Christmas , where he has a longer coat and a longer beard.

In France, he's known as Pere Noel.

In Germany, children get presents from Christindl, the Christ Child.

Customs of the Christmas Season in Spanish speaking countries have many similarities, and many variations. All of Latin America and Spain are predominantly Catholic. For many of these countries Baby Jesus, el Niño Jesus, brings gifts for children.

In Costa Rica, Colombia, and parts of Mexico, the gift bearer is el Niño Jesus, "the infant Jesus." In Brazil and Peru, he's called Papai Noel.

In Puerto Rico, children receive gifts from the Three Kings on January 6th, also called the celebration of Epiphany, the 3 Kings' Day. Each child puts grass under their bed for the camels. In the morning the grass is replaced with gifts. Also, Puerto Rico, being part of the United States, does its major gift giving on December 25, with the Christmas Tree and Santa Claus - in this sense, Puerto Rico is totally Americanized.
source
Again, I fail to see the hate in the comparison made.
I will agree that the OP had a laugh on Christians, but a laugh is not hate, friend, no matter what color you paint it.
Let us define Hate:
hate
verb, hat·ed, hat·ing, noun
1. to dislike intensely or passionately; feel extreme aversion for or extreme hostility toward; detest: to hate the enemy; to hate bigotry.
2. to be unwilling; dislike: I hate to do it.
dictionary.reference.com...

I think the truth of the matter here is you are seeing hate where none exists. And now you want to call out the ATS police to support you?

If you believe that hatred, based on disagreements of faith, is something you don't want to see on ATS, please weigh in on that thread.

ATS is what it is, it will never ever be all Christian, or even Christian friendly. If a Christian comes to ATS with his "gospel," he/she can expect that some will attempt to educate, some will say the OP is brainwashed, some will agree, and some will disagree. That is the nature of a very large public forum. If you want a place where nobody disputes Christians, and everybody posts supportive replies to your thread, I'm sure there are many Christian Forums out there which these kinds of rules.



posted on Aug, 12 2012 @ 09:25 AM
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Originally posted by ollncasino

If individuals having a Christian faith doesn't negatively affect other peoples' rights, what is the problem?

Surely, unless religious rights start to interfere with your secular rights, Christians are free to worship as they choose.



I think it does affect others rights and we see some of that expressed on ATS. The American Constitution is an expression of how religion impacted human rights and placed laws to protect those rights. But, there are still intense religion factors attempting to run over others rights toward truth and reality values over issues of faith and fantasy.

One has to question when folks buy into a fantasy, if they go against the Govt., and really drop out of being effective stewards for truth based participation in govt and being able to be good stewards toward ALL others.

It is a little more complicated than you propose. There is a large portion of the population, about 50 percent. that appears to have problems with recognition between reality and fantasy, so one has to be very careful not to instill words that can lead to problems in society.

What Cambridge University is finding is a PCS effect and this appears to be an issue in those that easily believe in a faith, where that issue is not reality based but is taken up as reality.




www.popsci.com...

Found: The Particular Brain Fold That Helps People Distinguish Between Imagination and Reality

A fold in the front brain called the paracingulate sulcus, or PCS, can apparently help people more accurately remember whether something was imagined or really happened, or which person actually said something. It's one of the final structural folds to develop before birth, and its size varies greatly in the general population, according to researchers at the University of Cambridge. People with the fold were significantly better at memory tasks than people without the fold, the researchers say.

--------

This work has implications for some mental disorders like schizophrenia, in which the line between reality and imagination is unclear to the patient. In other studies, schizophrenic patients reportedly have had reduced PCS areas, according to Jon Simons of Cambridge’s Experimental Psychology department and Behavioural and Clinical Neuroscience Institute.



So, this PCS Brain development effect appears to be an issue for those that can easily be led to believe and have a faith become their effective reality.

This faith turned to reality appears the reason why the European Continent and the Middle East turned into a blood bath over religion, far too often. This effect appears to be why the US Constitution decided to keep religion's non-reality faith separate from Government, so those that didn't have this faith turned into a reality could live in peace for being different and placing most value upon truth.

A good portion of the Bible is all about hate toward this and that and even the issue of Yahweh belief being about causing destruction of others, harm to do good to you. Such preaching is what appears to drive the Christians attacks upon others in the US just using their freedom of religion and freedom of speech to speak to these problems.

I do think, if ATS was left up to the religion extremes expressed by some on ATS, there would be no separation for church and state, there would be no Freedom of Speech to differ from church dogma, and they would cut out parts of the US Constitution to say there would be no freedom of religion to either not believe, be truth based, or believe Jesus was a Man, not a god.


So, this brain defect issue appears part of the factor that allows faith to become a reality and that non-reality to attempt to attack others that differ in that non-reality, and perhaps that don't have this lack of a PCS brain problem.

Some have always suggested that religion is a mental disorder, and this PCS lack issue appears one that literally is the issue were faith can become a reality to some and this causes much hate and distress in the world when truth is oppressed by faith.


In the US, folks like Thomas Jefferson differed from Jesus being god, and even cut out lots of the Bible story to make his Jefferson Bible. Then folks understood religious freedom included even Presidents rights to consider Jesus as only A Man and not a god.

Yet, on ATS one can see an almost bitter hatred coming from overboard Christian Elements that hold a faith as a reality, and call those that don't play their game as haters. They also call the US Constitution, at that point hate, and a US President that wrote parts of the Constitution as a hater.


These are the long standing problems that faith causes, the huge wars and deaths in Europe, the Bible incited hate of Christians toward those that don't buy their story, and literally the attacks on the Constitution values themselves.


It gets down to the bottom line issue of the Santa question being was the telling of the faithful tale really worth all the problems it causes when society departs from well grounded and founded truth.

With the PCS issue at hand, it does literally appear that some folks brains literally failed to grow up and this is associated with religious fanaticism, and failing to sort fantasy from reality.




edit on 12-8-2012 by MagnumOpus because: Religion appears to have a PCS factor, which is linked to a mental development issue in studies



posted on Aug, 12 2012 @ 09:39 AM
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I think everyone is missing the glaringly obvious in the OP. The reason he connects Santa Claus and Christianity, is because, surprise! They are connected! Christmas and Santa Claus have become synonymous with Christianity. No other religions celebrate Christmas, or recognize Santa Claus. So why would the OP lump all religions in with it.

Santa Claus has become the archetype of God/Christ to children. Lonewolf is right on page 1, but that isn't what Santa stands for today.

To the OP: Go back and read Cuervo's post. He hit the nail squarely on the head.

Cuervo said:


I actually think it's the opposite, though. Instead of saying that Christians believe in something that is similar to a belief in Santa, it's actually the Santa myth that was built around Christian ideology. Kind of like "Jesus Lite" for kids, I guess.

This is the crux of the matter. It doesn't matter that as kids grow up, they understand Santa doesn't exist by that name. He "exists" by another name, and the doctrinal idea of God/Jesus watching you always, is now implanted, and not easily forgotten. "Jesus lite" indeed.



Should adults grow up, or keep Jesus in a Santa Suit?

Few are more anti-Christian, and anti-religion than I am, but it isn't a matter of growing up. Remember, atheists/agnostics are an extreme minority on a planet of full of people who believe in an all powerful deity who created the universe, and us too. An argument could very well be made that we are the ones out of touch with consensus reality. We are the non-conformists, and considered by some a danger to humanity.
edit on 8/12/2012 by Klassified because: corrections



posted on Aug, 12 2012 @ 09:41 AM
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reply to post by MagnumOpus
 


So, don't we see some of the issues here on ATS about some that take issues on faith literally hating those that don't take things on faith and insist on critical thinking, seeing is believing, and a rational mind. Don't we see those that believe and have their faith consider those that don't buy their fantasy on Jesus being god as a lesser person that they will literally attack because the person didn't basically believe in Santa Clauss or a Jesus god.

Yes, we do in fact see here people who will take the Bible seriously, as a book of factual events backed up by History, and believe every word is literal truth. And then if someone comes along and says, "wait just a minute, that it not the case!" this is seen as "hate."
But there is a Double Standard here too. I have participated in many threads where Christians poured out their hatred for other religions, the ghosts of our dead relatives, and even poor ET, who may charged with helping us. But this is OK, I guess. It seems like when when someone believes God is on his or her side, they almost invariably bind those beliefs on others, and judge their fellow man by the same standards. Failure to comply with said truths results in shunning at least or persecution at worst. Once one begins this walk, there is essentially no going back; if God himself despises homosexuality, witchcraft, abortion, birth control, or masturbation, then there can be no room for disagreement on the issues. You have no voice in the matter. The faithful must therefore do all that they can (religiously, politically, or otherwise) to ensure that the “one true way” is followed.

Paying Sunday lip service to concepts like love, and tolerance, and acceptance means nothing when your religion causes you to look down in disgust on people who believe differently than you, or worship other Gods/Goddess than you. And if a person is adamant about their "Pagan Beliefs," this is always invariably seen as HATE by the faithful.

The proof is right here on ATS as to how Christian beliefs are used to attack others, as they go literally against the teachings of Jesus, go against the original words of John per Trinity forged, and go against Jesus not going to the father at Crucifiction day.

So, was this faith that remains unproven, and the story being shown to be false in many areas of Bible claims, really something that provides for peace in the world, or does the promotion of issues not based upon literal truth being used in discussions cause distrust, friction, hate, and loss of domestic tranquility toward others.

I couldn't agree more, MO. I think we all know where the hate really comes from, don't we? The hate I see often in here is Intolerance.



posted on Aug, 12 2012 @ 10:17 AM
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reply to post by MagnumOpus
 

OK, I had to star this one. For many reasons.

The problem is Christians do hate, and it shows.

Yes, it does, I have seen it, many times. In many threads, in many replies. I have seen Christians get post banned, and sanctioned because of their hatred, it is in your face and not to be denied in some cases.

Personally, I have not seen Islam acting bad on ATS, nor the Budhists, nor the other religions. ATS is dominated by the Christians, citations of Bible verse this and that, and really a lot of evangelism for selling Christianty to others using ATS as their podium..

I have to say I haven't seen this either. And ATs is dominated by the faithful, with their endless bible quotations to support their worn out ideas gets so tired sometimes.....I don't know about you, but a whole page of bible quotes with hardly a word of the person's own thoughts and opinions is something to just scroll past, isn't it? It is the same with Christian Videos, and links to websites where Christians gladly "debunk" your beliefs and your History, in favor of their own.

If one asks from rational questions of their evangelism, the come apart at the seams, because there is no proof, only a lot of unproven words, a want of truth and a need for faith to sustain a fantasy.

So true, I have seen this happen many times. We secular people are not supposed to post anything that questions their faith and belief structure, it seems. I just today saw a thread trying to make this ATS Law. It calls anything that disputes Christianity "hate," and calls for it to be banned. But who projects hate when the hard questions are asked?

Christians say read my book, and if one reads their book and finds all the problems, then they start calling names and attacking because you read their own book and made serious discoveries.

That right there presents the major problem here between Christians and everybody else, most especially those who have read and researched the Bible. I am one of these, and I found a great many things in the Bible that I did not agree with, things that are just wrong, outright Myths and Fables, Cruelty, Rape, Murder, Incest....and when one gets into the Authorship of the Biblical books, well, that is a whole other can of worms. I have been told that I failed to understand the Bible because I do not have the "Holy Spirit" to "interpret" it for me. I had a Strong's Exhaustive, what more do I need to understand?

And in all truth, the child like belief that Santa Claus will bring them toys for Christmas is not that much different from the child like beliefs of the Faithful who believe Jesus will come back on a cloud and take them all to their vision Heaven. Of course the root word means "sky," but they don't care about any words other than English, after all.



posted on Aug, 12 2012 @ 10:39 AM
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reply to post by autowrench
 


....I don't know about you, but a whole page of bible quotes with hardly a word of the person's own thoughts and opinions is something to just scroll past, isn't it? It is the same with Christian Videos, and links to websites where Christians gladly "debunk" your beliefs and your History, in favor of their own.

Yes, I do. I try to find the member's actual unique and original thoughts, but now, after haunting (sometimes loudly and disruptively) this forum, as soon as I see a Scripture "header" (book, ch, verse), I just whiz right past it.

Same with videos; I watched a couple early on, just to get a grasp of what they talk about. That done, II have no more reason to view them....links to websites that are clearly and audaciously zealous and biased as well. If I do look at them, it is always with an "observer's" eyes.

Furthermore, I am tired of the "Christians" complaining about people who bring up controversial facts and research in order to DENY IGNORANCE. That is not hate! It is education!!

I think it boils down to FEAR. If a person has invested their very fiber into a "belief system" and then it is challenged, they see it as "hate." No, folks, it's EDUCATION. You can hate the "teachers" if you want to, but it won't change them. And it won't shut them up.

This is NOT the "Christian" forum. This is the R, F, & T forum!! ALL OPINIONS ARE WELCOME!!!

I see so many posts by Christians insisting that anyone who disagrees with them, who questions the veracity of their "truth", will burn in hell, or is a follower of "Satan" (or Baphomet, or Azazel, or Beelzebub, or Lucifer, or who-the-hell-ever). Such childish behavior, and some of it from grown adults who should long since have come to grips with the difference between unsubstantiated fantasy and on-the-ground reality.

And I for one am very GLAD that the mods don't capitulate every time a "faithful Christian" ALERT!s them to a different point of view; those same people are very, very quick to use derogatory language and snarky LOLs and eye-rolls, and have a habit of demeaning and mocking those who don't share their beliefs.

It's sad. Thank you mods, for your steadfast policies that allow ALL (basically decent) faiths to be expressed here, and all to be discussed openly.

Also, thank you for banning the impossible shriekers and condemners and blatant "Satanic" trolls.




edit on 12-8-2012 by wildtimes because: format



posted on Aug, 12 2012 @ 10:40 AM
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Belief in Santa Claus is idolatry, pure and simple. If Christians support this, they deserve such threads as this. Christians should get rid of this idol, and while they are at it, Halloween, Easter, and all the rest of what my daughter describes as "pagan DNA."

Personally, I don't "do" Christmas, Easter, or Halloween, and barely tolerate "Sunday Christianity."



posted on Aug, 12 2012 @ 10:44 AM
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Its amazing that people will take shots at christianity and point to PAGAN rituals as proof. Well, unfortunately for you destroyers, we have reclaimed christmas as a day to celebrate the ultimate gift of life, love and witness of the spirit of the christ.
Ultimately, the day you murdered him isn't important, and neither are the symbolic materials you try to inject into our celebrations.
You cannot kill our spirit.



posted on Aug, 12 2012 @ 10:51 AM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 





And I for one am very GLAD that the mods don't capitulate every time a "faithful Christian" ALERT!s them to a different point of view; those same people are very, very quick to use derogatory language and snarky LOLs and eye-rolls, and have a habit of demeaning and mocking those who don't share their beliefs.


I have seen little evidence of what you are speaking of ...but I do see you go on and on about this in a very negative way, in many of your posts.

Perhaps your concern should be more about how you come across in your posts, and the negativity you put onto Christians.



posted on Aug, 12 2012 @ 11:15 AM
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reply to post by WhisperingWinds
 


I have seen little evidence of what you are speaking of ...but I do see you go on and on about this in a very negative way, in many of your posts.

Perhaps your concern should be more about how you come across in your posts, and the negativity you put onto Christians.


You have not been here long enough to see the evidence and make that assessment, Winds. Many of the most egregious "haters" have been banned or left. Furthermore, you have already established that you dislike me (even though you say you don't), that you usually don't understand what I mean, and many (if not all) of YOUR replies to me have been "polite attacks."

Perhaps your concern should be to not monitor me, but to open your mind. Not everyone agrees with you, and I have been bashed to smithereens on this forum from time to time. I also have forged very good friendships, and I don't really care what you think of me.

You go your way, and I'll go mine. No one asked you to read and critique my posts.



posted on Aug, 12 2012 @ 11:17 AM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 





You go your way, and I'll go mine. No one asked you to read and critique my posts.

Are you not the one who wrote these words..



This is NOT the "Christian" forum. This is the R, F, & T forum!! ALL OPINIONS ARE WELCOME!!!

But when you critique and politely "attack" the Christian posters, you claim it is education.

Why not let them go their way, and you go yours?


edit on 12-8-2012 by WhisperingWinds because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 12 2012 @ 11:17 AM
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Originally posted by ahnggk

Originally posted by jeantherapy
I'd hate to take something away from people if it comforts them but ultimately I see this worship as very destructive. I am the kind of person that always wants to know the truth, no matter how painful it may be to learn.


The true teachings of Jesus will cost you everything, your relationships, your dreams, your properties, and finally your life!

This is the only 'religion' that will ask you to sell ALL your possessions, give all the proceeds to the poor, then live like a wanderer for the rest of your life in order to have eternal life. Does this sound good to you??

Eternal life may not be what most people think. You are to tend the 'Garden of Eden'. It's like a very huge forest and you won't have any gadgets, houses, luxury SUVs, technology especially, and entertainment systems there. You won't have a bed to sleep, in fact, you won't sleep at all. 'Worst' of all, you could be asked to return to Earth and take part in the End Times and die a horrible death like two witnesses (Enoch being one of them) and also Daniel.

Mainstream Christians do not really know Jesus and what is in store in Eternity. Cowards especially are not allowed inside. Cowardice is a big sin. So now think, why would the Kingdom of God and Heaven, would require men of women who are exceptionally brave, not afraid of anything, even torture but fear God only?


All I ask you to consider is
1. So what?
2. How is this any of your business?
3. What good do you think you do by bringing this up here?
5. Are you adding to the division and hatred between groups or trying to bring people together.

The reason TPTB have been able to enslave humanity is by creating divisions where there had been none, encouraging people to focus on their differences instead of the much greater commonalities and sewing the seeds of hatred between the peasants in order that we keep ourselves down.

I've come to believe that many trolls are paid. This is the perfect medium to pull off just what I stated above.

Please forgive me for calling you names. Jesus told me to love my neighbors. So I'm sorry for the insults. I lost my temper. I really do love you and have no right to judge your beliefs. Let's work together. God loves us.



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