Why Haven't You Enlisted?

I wonder cargo, how sad is your life that you need to extract joy from what you percieve to be the hypocracies of others? Why does my support of the war whether in spirit or in act concern you? Why is my life of interest to you? Does it gain you anything if I am what you think? Does it lose you anything if I am not? Is your life so devoid of meaning that you may only find purpose in the judgment of others?
Tell me Cargo had I responded that I was refused due to disabillity, would you rail against your inabillity to expose me? Were I to state that I am a 70 yr old man and therefore I am unqualified for combat would you lament the loss of a target for your righetous indignation? Should I admit to cowardice, would you celebrate your victory? Does my struggle with my lifes choices make you a better man? Were I to enlist tomorrow would it lessen you?
Why do you feel the need to sit in judgement of others, Cargo, or the need to gloat upon your percieved "victory"?
Do you know the particulars of my situation? If not how can you feel justified in judging another wthout having walked in his shoes?
Again I ask Cargo how sad is your life?

GradyPhilpott you sound like you loved sitting on bodies, death, killing people etc etc etc...... The person who full-filled his duties and complained after he finished is the unnormal one and a traitor at that? And wanting to go kill people and actually liking it is normal?

PS: I did my time in the Army from 88-94. I joined out of patriotism, but left out of humanism. I respect the ones that are in and have fought, I also respect the ones that never joined. The military is a job, just like being a doctor, car park attendant, etc etc etc... All people are contributing to society.

Wouldn`t you say that the people who fight against war are fighting for peace?

Maybe im biased because my now ex-girlfriend was raped 1 and a half months ago in training. She is/ was my life my everything and because of some animale the only thing good I have ever had in my life dosent want to be touched or talked to by any man ever again. I dont care any more. Im counting down the days till we all die.

That really sucks...

I would advise BOTH of you to seek counseling on this...as neither attitude is a healthy one. Rape is truly one of the most horrible crimes imaginable, and can truly scar one for life without professional counseling. If you truly love her, and she truly loves you, your love can beat even this worthy foe. The old addage of throwing the baby out with the bath water would seem to apply. Just because an evil man did something to her, it does not make all men evil, and she'll need to eventually realize this. Just as you should realize that regardless of what she is going through, she would likely not like seeing you in such despair either... If the relationship has irrevocably ended, you have my sympathy, and the hope that you do learn to love again, as will she...but time is the factor here... Good luck.

Originally posted by JCMinJapan
GradyPhilpott you sound like you loved sitting on bodies, death, killing people etc etc etc......

Grady sounds like a fake soldier.

Meh, all I've got to say is if the US continues it's "either you're with (owned by) us or against us" attitude, soon you wont be seeing the country of american, it will be "Welcome strange little grey men from the centauri galaxy to Planet US". Would you like to be subservient to us, or would you prefer a bomb?

I'm going to say this, and I don't care at all what anyone thinks of me:

I would NEVER join the U.S. Armed Forces, not in any branch, not in any role.

If I get drafted, I will resist the draft. I will speak out to any and all young persons to show them that America is not what it purports to be any longer.

You should not go and fight or die for this country. The ones who rule you do all they can to avoid war, and at the same time were pro war.

The pres was AWOL and strung out on coke during his "service" in the rich boy squad of the T.A.N.G. He had to have others clean his messes when he refused to show up for duty, and refused to submit to drug testing.

But he was for the war.


You think 911 should be viewed as a "Call to Arms" do you?

It should, but not in the way you think.

911 had more to do with rich American elitists, the CIA, the mossad, and bureaucratic interests than it had to do with Terrorism.

911 was an act of terrorism. An act of terrorism against the American people and their freedoms purported by their very rulers.


Serve in a war based on lies?

No thank you. Go attack someone when we had no cause in the first place? I'll pass.

Hell, why would I serve the C.I.C. when he himself is a political despot that is in office illegally?

Anywhere else in the world, what he did would be considered a Coup de Taut, here it's just "exciting media"....

You intend to incite patriotism from these people, to get them to serve in the very machine that wishes to do away with their freedoms?

You think the Patriot acts(1 and 2) are needed? They are not meant to be used against terrorists, they are meant to undermine the constitution.

"Why fear the Patriot acts if you have nothing to hide?" proponents say...

You should fear because this has all happened before folks.

Nazi Germany started off in the same manner.

A Reichstag fire, blamed on terror. - We had 911.

A political serpent rises from the flames and calls on patriotism to exterminate the "oppressors". The whole while he was involved in the very act that he denounces to the public.

Harsh laws are enacted. The people are told that it is for their freedom. They willingly submit.

They keep the propaganda machine churning out "facts" bent on terrifying the public. Surely the will of the public will submit to the pressure, they want the "insanity to stop", they are outraged and want to fight for this leader.

He tells them the evil is everywhere, even amongst them. Them must police each other. For a caring citizen is a spy for the homeland.

They do much of the government's work for them. They watch each other and call the government to report the violations of their countrymen. They hope this makes them look worthy in the eyes of the fatherland. It does not; they are watched as closely as they watch others.

Some, the free thinker, the smart ones, they dissent. They speak out, and are carried off to horrors that are only slightly veiled to keep the "others" in line.

Slowly they are caught, one by one people witness this, and the public begins to question the truth. But the masses are too afraid and so they shut off their brains, in hopes of a better outcome for their friends and family.

A police state in the greatest sense.

In this day and age communications are watched.

Cameras abound all over.

Television is in place to force the state line upon you.

Their job is easier.

So they can work faster.

Things are not as they seem.

This is not freedom.

This is not justice.

But this is reality.


THINK!

X

Originally posted by mwm1331
Every morning I wake up and turn on CNN, and as I begin my morning preparations for work the news of death and destruction filters torwards my brain overlayed by the sounds of running water. Every morning I wake up and wonder, should I fly back to florida, sign my name, and commit my life to the defense of this country which I so dearly love?

I have pledged my life, my heart, and my very soul to this beautiful woman who is crazy enough to love a beast like me.

Some may see me as a hypocrite, that is thier choice. Some may see me as a coward, that is thier right. I, in truth, sometimes wonder if my wife is no more than a justification for my cowardice. If so I will be judged in due time. For now though I do not enlist because she needs me more than my country, should that change, so will my decision.

[edit on 11-10-2004 by mwm1331]

look, grady. someone with honour. he made a pledge, and he's going to keep it. someone who is a true american, ie. exercising his freedom of choice.
we have a duty to our country, yes. when the CLEARLY foriegn bombs are raining down on OUR soil. but not to every whim and falk up of our leaders and 'above top secret' agencies. it truly is sad that americas trust the agencies that keep EVERYTHING secret, and also have a PROVEN track record of covert manipulation of world politics, INCLUDING internal politics.
wake up, dude. the previous assault on sensibility(the cold war) is over. the world of information is not what it was thirty yrs. ago. with a wee bit of research, you can find out stuff that used to belong in elitist thinktanks and dusty filing cabinets in locked basements, only.
i wouldn't be surprised either, if you're NOT a vet, as you claim to be. i've NEVER heard a vietnam vet speak so fondly of war. i have to say, though, your writing style is immaculate. almost like someone from an elitist thinktank. say hi to poindexter, head of the thought police, for me. you may want to tell him the patriot pump has developed a leak.

I did enlist, 1989 U.S. Navy.

I was out a month later on a medical discharge. I cannot re-enlist, I would have done so a long time ago.

I am sad to this day that I couldn't serve my country in a military capacity.


God Bless our Troops, thier families and all !

You ungratefull little ... Grrrrr ..... This is rediculous ... the rest of the
F#$%N world ... just sits back and laughs you weren't laughing when chechen rebels killed all those kids everyone wanted to go do something about it you know what they are doing something about it .... They offered 10,000,000 for the heads of any of the rebels and any information on there whereabouts .... and you know how much s$%^ America weuold get if they offerend any kind of substancial reward for someone like that. Besides we are AMERICANS .. any one of you RUSSIA , CHINA , ITALY , BRAZIL , MEXICO , SAUDI , LAGOS , NIGERIA !!!!! ANY WHERE BOMB the U.S.A. ... and there will be world wide hunger and war and chaos ... b/c the U.S. are cocky and they will cause Global Winter before they get blown to hell I promise !!!!

There was no reason to do so, unless you were a communist and a traitor to your nation.

How does Communist = Traitor?? Simply because they do not believe in the system that the US presently uses doesn't mean they are traitors.

I am a strong Marxist/Socialist and generally don't like the way Corp's seem to run the country. However, If the UK was invaded and there was a real chance of the country falling, I would fight for it.

I sure has hell will not sign up for a war just to further increase the profits of Amercian Companies :|, Also why should we sign up?? If you lot want to go off and fight then thats your choice, not mine, Land of the free indeed

You can't even compare pearl harbor and 9/11 attacks.

Pearl Harbor was an act of war against a military target, and had I been alive at the time, I probably would have enlisted to fight the Japanese.

9/11 was an act of terror against a civilian target, by a group of terrorists. We don't even know who was responsible for it really. Iraq didn't attack us, we attacked them. They had nothing to do with 9/11. We are the aggressors, it's not the other way around...

I do not have a comment on enlisting, I just wanted to say that in the couple months I have been on ATS, this thread has been the most profound I have read thus far. With tempers and mudslinging reasonably kept in check, the messages resonate from deeply passionate and thoughtful words reinforcing to this reader anyway, my faith that compassion still prevails.

If I could vote a thread as way above, this would be it.

[edit on 10/11/04 by SomewhereinBetween]

What we did in Iraq and how we did it matches item #2 in billybob's signature image. It is a definition of terrorism.

The only time I would choose to fight would be in defense of myself and my family and friends or in a revolution against our current government...

I've lived a military life and have no desire to return to it in the shoes of a soldier - I know what it's like and there's nothing there for me...in a sense, I've done my time by simply growing up around it all my life...

My idea of civil service is joining the Peace Corps, which I intend on doing within the next few years...But I have no desire to kill, maim, or even sit behind a desk for an unjust cause...

that is a much greater EVIL.They are just Nazi's without any fashion sense.
How many died in the Cultural Revolution, or Tibet. How many Chinese conscripts died invading Korea after the UN defeated the Korean Communists?

Originally posted by zcheng

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
Oh, I see the loathsome, zcheng has to show up to scare the socks off the already too scared. I've lived through some mortar attacks and while there are better ways to spend an evening, life goes on.

You are attempting to drive the young and innocents to destruction in Iraq. I think it is a evil intention.

I want to address a few statements made by some who like to attack me personally or who haven�t carefully read my posts.

Originally posted by blowsbush

Grady - you DON'T know New York. On the contrary, I doubt you've
ever stepped foot on Manhattan Isle.

I have actually set foot on Manhattan Isle many times. I actually �lived� there for about month some thirty years ago. Manhattan is one of the most fascinating places on the planet and I have always wanted to return there to live in a proper sense, but alas, I could never afford to do so.

In my original post I said:

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
Today, we all know of New York. We saw the towers burn and collapse�.

I said �know of,� not �know.�

Originally posted by blowsbush
I'm a lifelong New Yorker. I also have 3 ex-military people in the family
and don't believe Grady is a real veteran. If he has any affiliation with the military it's in the recruiting department.

What is this supposed to mean? Actually, I was released from active duty on 23 July 71. I was discharged on 28 April 73. I served in Vietnam and I post to sites for Veterans and no one doubts my status because I am real and it�s hard to fool a discussion group full of Marines, or any vets for that matter. You only want to discredit me because I know whereof I speak and you do not. If you have veterans in your family (And who doesn�t?), ask them to read my body of work and see what they think.

Originally posted by blowsbush
Those of us who knew the towers well don't take kindly to outsiders using
them as "bait" to further political agendas.

You opened up a huge can of worms, my subway-fearing friend.

New York and the WTC belong to all Americans in the sense that I refer to them. Eleven September, 2001 belongs to the freedom-loving citizens of the world, not just to those whose family members died that day or just to those who live in a given region. To assert such is ludicrous. I can't say that any public transit is my favorite way to travel, but I never feared the subway. You presume an awful lot.

Originally posted by blowsbush

Jamuhn - what makes you think Grady is a real vet? Just because he posts a picture of his "medals" online doesn't make him authentic.

I have 2 Vietnam vets in the family. Trust me, Grady should be taken with a grain of salt.

Again, having veterans in one�s family, even veterans of the war in Vietnam, obviously doesn�t make you an expert on veterans. I am what I say I am and those who are also veterans do not question my validity because I am as they are, the real thing. Posting my ribbons does not make me authentic, earning them did.

Originally posted by JCMinJapan
GradyPhilpott you sound like you loved sitting on bodies, death, killing people etc etc etc...... The person who full-filled his duties and complained after he finished is the unnormal one and a traitor at that? And wanting to go kill people and actually liking it is normal?

I never said that I sat on dead bodies. I did not. I never said that I enjoyed killing.

This is what I said, refering to the men who fought in WWII:

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
The stench from the dead on the islands of the Pacific was so bad that pilots flying over were said to become sick from the smell. Rotting bodies were everywhere and men would lose their footing in the mud and slide down a hill onto a mass of rotting flesh and maggots. They ate their meals sitting on top of the dead to stay out of the mud. They exchange their wet uniforms with the dry uniforms on the dead. They saw heavy combat for week and months on end.

Originally posted by bushblows

Originally posted by JCMinJapan
GradyPhilpott you sound like you loved sitting on bodies, death, killing people etc etc etc......

Grady sounds like a fake soldier.

Again, taking quotes out of context and making unfounded assumptions based on them. I never said I was a soldier. I am a United States Marine--once a Marine, always a Marine.

Originally posted by billybob
i wouldn't be surprised either, if you're NOT a vet, as you claim to be. i've NEVER heard a vietnam vet speak so fondly of war. i have to say, though, your writing style is immaculate. almost like someone from an elitist thinktank. say hi to poindexter, head of the thought police, for me. you may want to tell him the patriot pump has developed a leak.

Maybe I have spoken fondly of war, I don�t know. Every moment in war is not hell. There is much that is good about the experience. It can be fun and it can be terrifying.

I appreciate your having noticed my writing style. I have been blessed with an excellent verbal aptitude and have earned a BA and an MSW. I do a lot of writing.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

But back to writing about war, let me share some of my own experience that I have written elsewhere and tell me if I am speaking fondly.

Originally posted by AceOfBase
A woman in Luxembourg set herself on fire after she was not allowed to open a store. I can't find a story on this on google yet but the images on Getty are pretty dramatic.

Explicit Image

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
As someone who survived severe and extensive burns, I can tell you that if she is lucky she will die quickly. If she survives, which seems doubtful based on the intensity and the extent of the flames, this will be an act she will always regret.

Being burned is bad enough. Recovering from burns can only be described as torture. I went through most of my scrub treatment without pain medication as a protest against my being taken off narcotics and put on Darvon.

Recent research indicates that Darvon is about as effective as aspirin and has adverse health effects, as well. I'll never regret my stance on the priniciple of the matter, given the efficacy of Darvon, but the pain was excruciating.

I think you should take down these pictures and leave the link with a warning as to the content. You're giving me flashbacks.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

Originally posted by AceOfBase
Sorry to hear about your experience Grady.
What was the reason for being taken off of narcotics?
Were they just worried about an addiction developing?

Fear of drug addiction was the sole reason and all current research reveals that the reaction of the body to narcotics is completely different when pain is present. The real threat of addiction was negligible and could have been easily managed.

Thanks for taking the pictures down.

Orginally posted by zerotime
I think burning alive would have to be one of the worst ways to die.

Actually burning to death is not a bad way to go, as all pain stops within just a few minutes, due to shock. As the nerve endings are killed by the flesh being cooked, there can be no pain.

The initial pain is bad, really bad, but it is eclipsed by the lingering pain of recovery and when the pain stops there is the incessant itching for weeks and you cannot scratch because your skin is so tender it just falls off leaving raw flesh.

I was fortunate to have only deep second degree burns, in terms of damage and scarring, but second degree burns are by far the most painful, as the nerve endings survive and are completely exposed to the environment. You are always cold and just the wind caused by a person walking by twenty feet away is enough to cause convulsions from the pain.

Everyday, we had to go to the tanks to soak in warm water and have our burns scrubbed with 16 guage gauze. It was extremely painful. If you were lucky you were the first to go. For some reason, when you were the first to go, the screaming of the other patients didn't bother you and all the patients said the same thing. When you had to listen to the screaming of a dozen patients while waiting two or three hours for your turn, it was nearly unbearable. And, people wonder why my nerves are shot.

When you got back from the tank, they smeared sulfamylonacetate salve all over the burns. It was called white lightening because it was white and burned as badly as the initial burns, but it did insulate the burns somewhat so that when the burning stopped you were less affected by the sensation of cold and the effect of air movement.

I would never wish this fate on my worst enemy.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

Originally posted by Murcielago
Grady - You said that after a couple minutes you lose your nerves and go into shock, maybe so, but for those minutes that would be living hell.

You cannot even imagine. The pain is so intense and all you can think of is to get away from the heat but it is you that is on fire. The last thing on your mind is "drop and roll," but that is what I did, but the ground had been defoliated and consisted of gravel and dead stubbly vegetation. The ground was so hard that we could not dig adequate bunkers and had to build bunkers out of dirt-filled ammo boxes and we used bomb and artillery craters as fighting holes and burn pits.

I could only roll for a few seconds and got up to run again, when a Navy Corpsman tackled me and he and another Marine put out the flames and all of this while taking incoming mortar and small arms fire.

It is a living hell, but to burn to death is far better than many fates I can imagine. Really there is no good way to go and most of us will not die peacefully and painlessly in our sleep or be killed instantly.

You know, most people who know me have never heard this story. I recently said something to my sister about my experience in Vietnam, relative to some event in the news. When she told my dad, he said something like, "Wow, Grady (not my real name) has never talked about Vietnam." The truth is that no one has ever been interested.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

Originally posted by Nygdan
Mr. Philpott (or is the whole name a posting name?) I can't even begin to express my deepest sympathy for this horror you went thru.

This was napalm, and the ground had been defoliated with agent orange?

I would assume then that your recovery, tho a horror show, was ultimately successful?

Grady Philpott is my screen name. I just put it all together for this group and you can call me whatever you're comfortable with.

It wasn't napalm. The burns were caused by exploding powder increments in my gun pit ingited by shrapnel from incoming mortars. At the time, I had no idea what agent orange was and it wasn't until years later that I began to hear of it.

Certainly, I was exposed to dioxin during my tour, as all fire bases were defoliated with dioxin and there is no reason to believe that this one was different. This hill had been bombarded with artillery HE and WP rounds and aerial bombs. Clearly it was prepared before our arrival. It was a barren hill in the midst of nothing but lush green and it did not give the appearance of scorched earth. Everything was just dead.

I have thought many times about having rolled around without skin on ground sprayed with dioxin, but thank God, I have never manifested any disease that has been related to dioxin, at least, not to my knowledge. There have been very few ailments directly ascribed to dioxin and as I have no children, birth defects have not been an issue.

It took many years for some of the effects of the burns to subside and even now there are problems with the scars, but yes the recovery was successful and most people never know that it happened.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

This is what I endured in the cause of freedom. The man with whom I am currently working stated recently that he was impressed that the war had not left me bitter. This was a compliment, but it does ignore the years I spent in therapy learning to live with the effects of warfare. However, if I had it all to do over again, I would do nothing any differently. I would only try to do it better. I never said the service did not involve sacrifice.

[edit on 04/10/11 by GradyPhilpott]

Why?

1. I'm not so sure we've even successfully established who attacked us.
2. We seem to be fighting, for the most part, in the wrong country.
3. You can't fight terrorism with conventional war tactics.
4. I don't believe this is an effective war.
5. I'm not so sure America didn't have it coming, with this, "we're the superpower, therefore we should police the world", mentality.
6. I'm not risking my life for Bush or his corrupt cronies.

I could probably list quite a few more, but those are the most significant reasons.

Thankyou for your kind words Gazrok. Your a very good person. She/we are getting help. Also I was pretty drunk when I wrote that, and I get real dark and disconcerning when I drink lets just all be thankful I didnt quote Revelations.

Its people like you Gaz that give me alittle hope for this world.

Keep up the good work.

-out

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
I want to address a few statements made by some who like to attack me personally or who haven�t carefully read my posts.

I never said the service did not involve sacrifice.

[edit on 04/10/11 by GradyPhilpott]

this is where the tires hit the road. sacrifice. this is the word used to refer to ritual of offering lives for the favours of the gods. and that is exactly what all the cannon fodder of the ages have been. sacrifices to satan.
i've worn many hats throughout my life. one thing that is consistent is the tendency to 'morph' yourself into the role of the occupation. professional killers may have a more noble title(soldiers), but it does not change the nature of the occupation.
the thing that soldiers are generally deluded by, is that the cause they are fighting for is just. that's why many of those in the military(especially those who earn their way up the command tree) are of the finest caliber of human in all respects.
unfortunately, as in all walks of life, there are also a bunch of power hungry thugs who just enjoy their godlike status of death dealer, and this breed also excels.
unfortunately, when you are in the military, you give your precious WILL over to an, unknown, unseen, poorly understood entity known as politics. this is blind faith at it's worst.
why don't we just admit everything sucks, and there is room for improvement. a free press would be nice. ever heard of 'convergence'? it's a new word for COMPLETE MONOPOLY. that's a monopoly on concensus truth.

the country you are defending so honourably is dead. you lost. the bolshevik fascist commies are ruling your country, and YOU are supporting them, because you have been fooled into thinking they are "american' and sworn to defend the CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES, when in fact, they are the very same bloodlines of NAZIS that people fought so hard to squash during world war two, and they are hellbound on taking this country into the twentyfirst century to the sounds of wagner.

i suggest you take your finally honed military skills and take your country back. patriots don't need and act. only slaves do.

p.s. i'm sorry i said you were a mind control agent. you're clearly mind controlled. a victim, not a villian.

Originally posted by billybob
p.s. i'm sorry i said you were a mind control agent. you're clearly mind controlled. a victim, not a villian.

Your writing reveals impaired thought processes and that's a professional opinion.