Why haven't you enlisted?

I'm a little old now in my sixth decade and having served my six year obligation and serving a "tour of duty" at the same time as the illustrious Mr. Kerry, though with considerably less fanfare and far more serious wounds.

When Pearl Harbor was bombed, most people had never heard of Pearl Harbor. Yet men stood in line for hours to sign up. These men stormed the beaches of Normandy, Anzio, Guadalcanal, Iwo Jima and Bougainville. They fought in North Africa, France, Brussels, and Italy. They liberated Paris, Sicily, Manila, and Auschwitz. They fought in sub-zero temperatures at the Battle of the Bulge, in the steaming hot jungles of the South Pacific and the dry, suffocating heat of the Sahara.

The stench from the dead on the islands of the Pacific was so bad that pilots flying over were said to become sick from the smell. Rotting bodies were everywhere and men would lose their footing in the mud and slide down a hill onto a mass of rotting flesh and maggots. They ate their meals sitting on top of the dead to stay out of the mud. They exchange their wet uniforms with the dry uniforms on the dead. They saw heavy combat for week and months on end.

The US dead were stacked like cord wood on the beaches, and yet they fought on. On Peliliu, Chesty Pullers, First Marines took so many casualties that when a reporter asked a Marine who was returning from the front, if he was with the First Marines, he replied, "Mister, their ain't no more First Marines."

These men endured heavy losses under the most vicious of circumstances so that the world can be free, not only for their own posterity, but for those whom they would never meet again.

Today, we all know of New York. We saw the towers burn and collapse and about the only response we can get is, "Do you think they will reinstitute the draft?

Why haven't you enlisted in the cause of liberty?


[edit on 04/10/11 by GradyPhilpott]

As it was an act of Terror, ergo a criminal act which requires a judicial response, I would not compare it to an act of War (ie, a conflict between two countries), which is what Pearl harbour was.

Therefore i propose that if you want everyone to join your "War on terror" (yeah, lets get that nasty noun), i suggest you all join the police or FBI, not the Army.

Besides, I am a Brit, and you wouldn't catch me dead in an American uniform. Plus, you didn't see us getting urged to join the Army to fight the Irish (nor did you see us actually attack another Soverign country just coz of a few madmen)! And there where far more people killed in the Troubles than on Sept 11th.

I suggest you all get a grip on reality and perhaps look at why terrorism happens, and work to correct the underlying root cause. Blowing more people up won't work, trust me, didnt work in Ireland. We worked to find a solution to the problems, and if America actually worked WITH (not against or threatening) these failed states, instead of bombing them, I think the response would be far more satisfactory.

I thought about joining the army, but then I got into University.

Japan was a clearly definable enemy. An enemy with a country and an enemy with a uniform. I'm not going to sign myself up for a fight with a ghost.

If my country was ever threated by a conventional force with attack/invasion, I would be the first in line for a set of BDUs and a rifle. However, I don't plan on fighting for lies or half truths. Our lives are too important to risk on "maybe's".

Firstly, while I expect we might not see eye to eye, I respect your sacrifice and thank you for it. You didn't have to make it, yet you did. Further, I respect the question you ask as well, as if nothing else, it is an extremely valid question. I'll be interested in seeing people's responses.

I have not enlisted for several reasons. Chief among them is that I do not wish to serve as part of any organization, become a member of any institution, or take part in any effort, which justifies the taking of human life. I know that isn't a particularly popular view, but I respect your view, and hope you will respect mine as well even if you don't agree with it. You have arrived at your view through more years of experience than I have arrived at my own. However I think we can both atleast agree that they are equaly valid, atleast in so much as it applies to our own individual lives.

Second, my health barely permits me to work, let alone fight, or do anything else in the support of any military operation. Despite that, I don't qualify for SSI. Go figure.

Lastly, I'm not angry enough to. That will strike alot of people as odd, no doubt. I rarely get angry. I'm human, so I do sometimes lose it. I've made an intense effort not to, however. I choose to feel the pain that anger is an insulation against, rather than lash our at others in the name of "justice." To my thinking, anger is an emotional form of retalliation, and I don't believe in vengeance.

I did give blood after the 9-11 attacks. I also shed my tears. My thoughts and wishes are with everyone who suffers because of this war, especialy those fighting or living in and around it's front lines, regardless of anything else I feel about it.

I hope my views don't inspire anyone's ire.

Well. As already made clear above, september 11 = terrorist attack. pearl harbour = act of war.

When Australia had the REALLY bad bushfires a few years ago, I was going to sign up as a volunteer because I felt it was my moral duty as an aussie to help out where I could, and as the fires got more and more out of hand, more and more people took the same attitude I took at the time.

If a country actively declared war on Australia, and it became clear that our war with this country was justified, and that our existing defence forces were having trouble defending ourselves, then I would sign up without hesitation. If I died at least I'd go out protecting my country.

However, this "war on terrorism" isn't a traditional war. There is no clearly defined enemy, no definable borders. The enemies capabilities are TOTALLY unknown, and there is no definable point where we can say "we have won this war". There will always be terrorists, the same as there will always be murderers, and rapists etc, so you can't "win" a "war" on terrorism. A "war" on terrorism would only breed more terrorism and hate (basically the entire eastern world is painfull proof that this is the case).

I was enlisted in the 80's and did 12 years including time during the first gulf war but I did not go to Kuwait. I was on standby to go but was told to stand down because the major fighting was over so quickly and I was not needed there. I would have been willing to go though, but alas I remained stateside.

If it gets to the point where a majority of the irregular/inactive reserves are called back I'll do more checking to see if they will waive the age limit, but at this time I am too old to re-enlist. But, if you know anything about the Air Force, they have waivers for almost anything. I got a height waiver of 3/4" when I enlisted as the minimum height they would take was 5 feet. I am 4'11 (and a quarter!!) inches, so I had to get a waiver for that.

My hubby has also said he would do the same. He did his tour in Vietnam and stayed in for 10 more years in the guard and would go back in the service if needed, but he is 55 and a little past his prime.

We have heard of a few retired folks going back in to help stateside, but I believe it is only for select MOSs. Just in case, we have made arrangements with my folks to take the kids and the cats if we are needed and can actually do something to help.

Edit: not capable of putting together a single cogent thought until I've had my java...

[edit on 10-10-2004 by Gardenia]

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
Why haven't you enlisted?


When Pearl Harbor was bombed, most people had never heard of Pearl Harbor. Yet men stood in line for hours to sign up. These men stormed the beaches of Normandy, Anzio, Guadalcanal, Iwo Jima and Bougainville. They fought in North Africa, France, Brussels, and Italy.

Today, we all know of New York. We saw the towers burn and collapse and about the only response we can get is, "Do you think they will reinstitute the draft?

Why haven't you enlisted in the cause of liberty?

I had a few different reactions to this

1)HUH!?!? you actually asked a bunch of people on a conspriricy forum why they didn't want to work for the"man" ?
HELLO!!! do you want the nutso's on here(and you know who I mean-no offence meant to most of you)to join the military cause I don't! I had to put up with weird enough people-thank you very much!

2)Are you asking anyone in paticular?
If so, you should say so, If not see above.

3)Because if every one was out fighting the war on terror, then who would we be fighting for?

4)I have the utmost respect for those who do "fight the good fight"
but that doesn't mean that I would be right in joining them. Many people can actually do more good living their lives here. This is what their fighting for a after all.(isn't it)
5)For every 1 guy out on the front lines their are 9 guys supporting him.(this is a fact, jsut ask anyone in the Quartermaster Core) And they couldn't do their jobs without civilians back her supporting them.

P.S. Didn't mean to insult anyone with anything I said. If you were offended then I apoligize. I hav ethe greatiset respect for the people out fighting onthe front lines. And I know that most people on ATS are sane upright people I would be proud to fight with. But we all know that their are less than sane people on this board. You can probably name a few.

You cannot wage a war against terror. You cannot say "We will scour the Earth and make sure nobody is terrorized again." Madness. There will always be terrorists, people who are not happy with America and the west. Instead of trying to battle and kill these elusive terrorists, why not look at why so mant despise us. Our way of life is possible because of the awful way that west capaitalist society treats those in the world who are alot less better off.

Question the motives of your leaders and look harder at what led to 9/11. This is no war.

“This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or exercise their revolutionary right to overthrow it.” – Abraham Lincoln

I'll enlist in the Revolutionary Army, once the populace realizes this is a staged war by the few planned 40 years ago when I was drafted to fight another staged war by the exact same elite powers. We lost the war and 50,000 brothers, fathers, friends, sisters. The rich got richer and the poor got poorer and our liberty got striped a little more. This is their design again it is well documented through out history. If you do not know it and understand it you are doomed to repeat it. Over and over and over.

TUT

Simple explanation, I never gradated from high school. According to the government I’m not smart enough to point a gun and pull the trigger. Otherwise, yes I would have joined the moment I dropped out. Not that I agree with the war or the way the government is going, I just want to get some military training. So when the time comes to join the REAL fight, I will have the experience.

I believe joining the army can be an exellent career, with lots of training not only to do with combat. I believe it can open many opportunities whilst in the army and when out of it.

I have never joined the army for one simple fact. I could not bring myself to kill someone.

Grady,

Like stumason said I didn't see us Brits asking the US to join up when the IRA where blowing us pieces, funded by people in the U.S by the way.

Also joining the FBI or Police would be much more effective then being a soldier as stu said.

ALSO what Earthtone said about finding the 'CAUSE' of terror I completely agree with. (agree agree agree )

Grady, What your suggesting is:-
More soliders to fight a hidden enemy
More countries to invade
More innocents killed
More people become enemies
More terrorists
More people to join the army
More countries to invade.......

Dirty circle. Learn from past wars, lets not repeat them.

The pioneers of a warless world are the youth who refuse military service - Albert Einstein

[edit on 10-10-2004 by 7th_Chakra]

I was enlisted, did 6 yrs including 8 months in the first Gulf War/liberation of Kuwait.
Would I enlist now for the war on terror, NO I wouldn't.
What is this war on terror? Who are the terrorists?
How can we win a war on terrorism?
Who determines what or who a terrorist is?
One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter.
Our military is being used to force our way of doing things on other countries. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 and there were no WMD.
Bush's answer to that when it's baught up is, well we were was wrong but we have to finish the job. In other words; So what we lied, it got what we wanted and we're not gonna stop, so screw you!

I mean no disrespect for the brave men who faught in WWII, but a lot of ppl enlisted then because they were dirt poor, and it was a chance for them to get away from the poverty of the depression.
And they knew who the enemy was and why. Things are a little different now. Maybe back then though if they had the means of communication (internet) we do now a lot more ppl would not have enlisted.

I served 8 years, and the only reason I'm not still in is because I was shot in the leg in the 1991 Gulf War. Bullet literally shattered my Tibula from ankle to knee :/

I miss the military

well grady as a vet from 'nam you should know better than anyone that most ppl aren't going to enlist in wars that we shouldn't be there and/or the govt is protecting it's own interests and pride in a pointless war. Why should we make the sacrifice for a war that has more to do with the interests of corporations and the oil business than it does about freedom and liberty?

You are a prime example of a person who had many good years of his life robbed away by the american govt just because they wanted to retain national pride over a war that they could not win and a conflict even kennedy didn't want to get into and the US shouldn't of got into.

I am going to sign my a$$ up if my country is actually in danger and we are fighting for our people not for our govt.

Bush is a liar, the administration is a bunch of liars and they know their heads will roll if they ever tell the truth about Iraq. They're just going to keep telling the lie long enough for it to become truth.

thanks,
drfunk

I agree with the comments by some of the other posters here, namely that terror is a criminal act and thus is best countered by the police and counter-terror institutions, not the armed forces (although of course there are counter-terror units within the armed forces).

I personally haven't enlisted because I see no reason to. We have more than adequate manpower in the armed forces to protect ourselves from threats- we are simply squandering most of them in Iraq. Also, I'm currently in grad school, and want to finish my degree. If actually drafted though, I would serve my country, even if the war was unjust or just plain stupid, because it wouldn't seem fair to me that others were dying in my stead.

I may be wrong, but didn't enlistment figures boom following 9/11? I think many people wanted to join the fight against terror when we were actually fighting it in Afghanistan. Many people wanted to sign up, and did, to get Osama and his evil group, because of what happened in New York and elsewhere that day. But Iraq? It has nothing to do with that.

-koji K.

[edit on 10-10-2004 by koji_K]

[edit on 10-10-2004 by koji_K]

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
Why haven't you enlisted?

I'm a little old now in my sixth decade and having served my six year obligation and serving a "tour of duty" at the same time as the illustrious Mr. Kerry, though with considerably less fanfare and far more serious wounds.

Why haven't you enlisted in the cause of liberty?

WOW! Nicely done.... It is funny as most of the time patriots would not have to be drafted, but them kicking and screaming peacenicks and concscience objectors, they will make fine drafted cannon fodder!


I volunteered in the 80's

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

Why haven't you enlisted in the cause of liberty?

i did enlist. on 9/12/01...

i went into the Corp. while at tech school in pensacola, fl, my wrist was crushed under a plane engine...

long story short... i would give anything to be over there doing my part in the war on terror. i have already buried several friends b/c of this conflict...

all i can say is that, when the S@#T hits the fan and this thing spills over into our backyard, (and it will, i honestly believe it will) i'll be here with gun in hand, taking no prisoners...

I did enlist.

I served five years in the US Army.
My husband enlisted and served two years in the US Air Force.
My father enlisted and served three years in the US Army.
My father-in-law enlisted and served 20 years in the US Army.
My brother enlisted, has served 15 years in the US Air Force and
he intends to reenlist.