Gay Marriage. I am honestly confused

Originally posted by kaylaluv

Well, I'm an "advocate", and I don't care why you are okay with gay marriage.

I'm not. But I really don't care what two people do. Freedom, it's a beauty thing. I think marriage is between a man and a woman. But if two men want to call it a marriage, who am I to stop them?

I have never heard a gay person demand that people love them and cheer for them while walking down the street. Just don't be cruel, and give them the same legal benefits from the state.

Bull cookies. I've lost count of the times where I've heard that this kind of lifestyle has to be accepted.

It can be acknowledged, but accepted? Then you're getting into social engineering.

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
reply to post by beezzer

 

But that isn't good enough. I have to accept the new "norm" now. Which I do fight.

who is telling you you have to like it?

that's my point - you're not being honest

you know what's what - but you're willing to perpetuate this idea that people are somehow forcing you to like something you don't want to like

in case you're confused beezzer - you're free to dislike all the things you've always disliked

you don't even need anyone's permission

see?

:-)

Well then beauty! Eh? (props to my canadian cousins)

reply to post by beezzer


Yeah have you noticed that? Its easier to talk to the canadians about this than anyone else?

lol... why is that?

Originally posted by beezzer
But I am!
I Don't Care
But that isn't good enough. I have to accept the new "norm" now. Which I do fight.
It's like abortion.
I hate it. I am against it. It is legal though. So it'd be like abortion advocates getting upset because I don't advocate abortion because it is legal.
Get it?

You're free to do whatever you want. You're free to hate it, you're free to be against it but dont forget other peoples freedoms as well. Just as you're free to hate abortions someone is free to love them. And they're free get an abortion. We just keep the feelings to ourself. If you ever have to deal with unplanned pregnancy (directly or indirectly) you're free to make your own choice about it. Don't force a choice on others.

Gays aren't forcing you to like gay marriage, as of now they're just fighting for the freedom of choice since this freedom is denied in so many states (if you look at the state graph a few posts above ).

You're entitled to your own feeling, you cannot dictate what people should or shouldn't do.

reply to post by OpinionatedB


Maybe because gay marriage is legal in Canada? They are no longer fighting for marriage equality like we are here.

Denying access for gays and lesbians to the social institution of marriage, even in the context of offering an "alternative" such as registered domestic partnership, is a denial of real equality.

Canadian Human Rights Commission

Originally posted by Spotless

Originally posted by beezzer
But I am!
I Don't Care
But that isn't good enough. I have to accept the new "norm" now. Which I do fight.
It's like abortion.
I hate it. I am against it. It is legal though. So it'd be like abortion advocates getting upset because I don't advocate abortion because it is legal.
Get it?

You're free to do whatever you want. You're free to hate it, you're free to be against it but dont forget other peoples freedoms as well. Just as you're free to hate abortions someone is free to love them. And they're free get an abortion. We just keep the feelings to ourself. If you ever have to deal with unplanned pregnancy (directly or indirectly) you're free to make your own choice about it. Don't force a choice on others.

Gays aren't forcing you to like gay marriage, as of now they're just fighting for the freedom of choice since this freedom is denied in so much states (if you look at the state graph some posts above ).

You're entitled to your own feeling, you cannot dictate what people should or shouldn't do.

And I don't.
Don't shove it down my throat, and I won't shove "The Gospel Of Beezzer" down yours.

Originally posted by OpinionatedB
reply to post by beezzer

 

Yeah have you noticed that? Its easier to talk to the canadians about this than anyone else?

lol... why is that?

What BH said.

They are more laid back in this regard.

reply to post by beezzer


If it includes the commandment "Do not speed on your motorcycle" I am there!

(lol.. my son has one of those...!)

Originally posted by beezzer

Originally posted by kaylaluv

Well, I'm an "advocate", and I don't care why you are okay with gay marriage.

I'm not. But I really don't care what two people do. Freedom, it's a beauty thing. I think marriage is between a man and a woman. But if two men want to call it a marriage, who am I to stop them?

I have never heard a gay person demand that people love them and cheer for them while walking down the street. Just don't be cruel, and give them the same legal benefits from the state.

Bull cookies. I've lost count of the times where I've heard that this kind of lifestyle has to be accepted.

It can be acknowledged, but accepted? Then you're getting into social engineering.

Depends on what you mean by accepted. What do I (and gays too, probably) mean by accepted? To not be taunted, teased, bullied over one's sexual orientation. To not be forced to stay in the closet to avoid loss of job opportunity, and general shunning by the rest of society. To have the same legal benefits as everyone else. To not be considered a second-class citizen. What is your definition of accepted? Hero worship?

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by OpinionatedB

 

Maybe because gay marriage is legal in Canada? They are no longer fighting for marriage equality like we are here.

Denying access for gays and lesbians to the social institution of marriage, even in the context of offering an "alternative" such as registered domestic partnership, is a denial of real equality.

Canadian Human Rights Commission

Exactly. It wasn't even a big deal in Canada. It was just a given that all deserve equal rights. Not so in America, eh?

Originally posted by beezzer
Bull cookies. I've lost count of the times where I've heard that this kind of lifestyle has to be accepted.

It can be acknowledged, but accepted? Then you're getting into social engineering.

Well tolerated I'd say would be more accurate.
Nobody is asking that you go on a "pride" march... or to agree, like, feel warmly about it or anything like that.
Just accept the law if/when it changes.

It's not difficult.


I'm not sure what your issue is here or why you're trying to "convert/convince" people that others are trying to control their thoughts?

It's insane.

Everyone goes around with their thoughts and thinks things of other people.... nobody can EVER change that.

What people don't do (or shouldn't do) is go up to every person or group of people they disagree with or disapprove of and have it out with them or let them know exactly what they think of them.... society would break down if we all just said what we thought about every group we hated/disagreed with.

Just tolerate people.

That's all.


If the law changes it will literally have NO effect on your life whatsoever.

reply to post by beezzer


Hi Beez. I actually see what you are saying and I agree, not with your opinion, but with your position, if that makes sense.

Originally posted by beezzer
If a man and a man or a woman and a woman want to call their ham and cheese sandwich a pastrami on rye, then they are free to do so.
...
So if they choose to call their sandwich one thing, when it is (in reality) another, who cares?

I'm assuming this sandwich analogy, when compared to marriage, would look something like this:

"So if gay people choose to call their relationship a "legal marriage", when it is (in my reality) NOT "marriage", who cares?

It doesn't affect MY marriage. It doesn't diminish my marriage. My marriage is a singular entity. My marriage does not rely on any other marriages to define it."

So, basically, in your mind, any gay couple who gets married, are not really married, by your definition.

Is that pretty close?

It's absolutely your right to not "accept" gay marriage as real marriage. My view is that all legal marriages are legal marriages. That's MY reality. We are allowed to have different contexts and views of life. We can disagree about something and get along just fine.

I rarely agree with you, but I usually support your stance for freedom.

Originally posted by kaylaluv
What is your definition of accepted? Hero worship?

To accept it as normal. No hero worship. No discrimination. No bullying. But don't paint it as normal.

Because it isn't. Kinda goes against the whole XY chromosomal thing.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


I do admit though I like the chevy and the mercedes analogy better... we must always remember to take good care of our cars too... change the oil, put gas in it... etc etc... or it stops running

all you can do with a sanwich is eat it!

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by beezzer

 

Hi Beez.

I actually see what you are saying and I agree, not with your opinion, but with your position, if that makes sense.

Originally posted by beezzer
If a man and a man or a woman and a woman want to call their ham and cheese sandwich a pastrami on rye, then they are free to do so.
...
So if they choose to call their sandwich one thing, when it is (in reality) another, who cares?

I'm assuming this sandwich analogy, when compared to marriage, would look something like this:

"So if gay people choose to call their relationship a "legal marriage", when it is (in my reality) NOT "marriage", who cares?

It doesn't affect MY marriage. It doesn't diminish my marriage. My marriage is a singular entity. My marriage does not rely on any other marriages to define it."

So, basically, in your mind, any gay couple who gets married, are not really married, by your definition.

Is that pretty close?

It's absolutely your right to not "accept" gay marriage as real marriage. My view is that all legal marriages are legal marriages. That's MY reality. We are allowed to have different contexts and views of life. We can disagree about something and get along just fine.

I rarely agree with you, but I usually support your stance for freedom.

edit on 7/27/2012 by Benevolent Heretic because: (no reason given)

Well, sure, in that respect, I don't accept marriages that are strictly for money as "real" marriages. To me personally, marriage should only be for love. But does that mean I think marriage for money should be banned, or should have a different name? Nope. It's just my personal opinion. Nothing wrong with that.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by beezzer

 

Hi Beez.

I actually see what you are saying and I agree, not with your opinion, but with your position, if that makes sense.

Originally posted by beezzer
If a man and a man or a woman and a woman want to call their ham and cheese sandwich a pastrami on rye, then they are free to do so.
...
So if they choose to call their sandwich one thing, when it is (in reality) another, who cares?

I'm assuming this sandwich analogy, when compared to marriage, would look something like this:

"So if gay people choose to call their relationship a "legal marriage", when it is (in my reality) NOT "marriage", who cares?

It doesn't affect MY marriage. It doesn't diminish my marriage. My marriage is a singular entity. My marriage does not rely on any other marriages to define it."

So, basically, in your mind, any gay couple who gets married, are not really married, by your definition.

Is that pretty close?

It's absolutely your right to not "accept" gay marriage as real marriage. My view is that all legal marriages are legal marriages. That's MY reality. We are allowed to have different contexts and views of life. We can disagree about something and get along just fine.

I rarely agree with you, but I usually support your stance for freedom.

edit on 7/27/2012 by Benevolent Heretic because: (no reason given)

Spot on, BH!

When I saw the thread, I actually was trying to interject a little reason into it.

That kinda got away from me. But yeah, you get the drift!

Originally posted by ronnieray123

A marriage is the Union of a man and a woman.. It is what it is. Look around, all around..all over the world.

One thing about human society is it evolves.

I don't live in antiquated ideologies

Yes - look around the world - - - several countries have already accepted the evolution of marriage to include same sex.

MARRIAGE is the only terminology to include all. Deal with it.

Originally posted by beezzer

Originally posted by kaylaluv
What is your definition of accepted? Hero worship?

To accept it as normal. No hero worship. No discrimination. No bullying. But don't paint it as normal.

Because it isn't. Kinda goes against the whole XY chromosomal thing.

As long as "not normal" doesn't mean "less than". Kinda like being a natural red-head isn't "normal", or being left-handed isn't "normal". As in "not in the norm".

reply to post by kaylaluv


I do not think I am better than anyone... I simply believe the way I do.... I do not believe I am better, less than most sometimes, but not better.

A person can be good, or they can be bad.... their actions determine this.


As you said, most people are right handed, but that doesnt make left handed people anything other than people too...

reply to post by kaylaluv

Originally posted by kaylaluv
But does that mean I think marriage for money should be banned, or should have a different name? Nope. It's just my personal opinion. Nothing wrong with that.

And that's what Beez is saying. He doesn't want gay marriage to be banned, either, he's just not going to accept it as "real marriage" in his world. It's just his opinion.

After seeing the gay marriage debate as fully as I have, I don't judge ANYONE'S marriage as bad, wrong, or "not real". Even Kim Kardiassian's 72-day marriage. I just refrain from judgment. It's SO much easier than making a judgment about something that's frankly none if my business.