Wasn't sure if ATS on the whole would "get it", cool to see that some are at least thinking about it. That's all I ever want to do is get people
Thanks for your thoughts. I'm not certain if this could be used effectively via "one sided" transmission(tv radio etc). But I do
think it could.
Yes, this can totally be used to control persons, even if on a minor level. The only way I've done so was in a harmless manner, and it was via face
to face two way interaction.
If you and I(and presumably others) feel that this method can be abused, what can be done to combat this?
Great thoughts, I appreciate them.
I do truly enjoy your powers of observation. I wondered who all would notice some of that, and other things. Yes, I truly am not a
person that would do ANYTHING to oppress anyone. If I love anything in life, it's to see people thinking. I don't mean the opinions that are force
fed to persons via mass media, I mean I love to see persons come up with ideas that are totally original to themselves, that's real beauty imho.
I'm sure the oppressors are in fact working on society as we speak(type), but free thought breeds freedom, free in mind makes an unbreakable spirit.
Keep on keeping on!
deaf fences hit-
Thank you for your kind words.
It truly does make a ton of common sense when you realize the dynamic for human interaction occurs on many levels.
I agree that it's misleading about who you "truly are", as you are presenting what that person wants or expects you to be. But look a little closer
the next time you're around a close friend interacting with a stranger neither of you know. You'll see that rarely to humans show thier true selves
to others at first glance. When you see that, is using this method to garner success in social and professional situations really that bad? I know
that I felt bad when I started implementing this method, but I'll tell you that it does not feel bad after a while of gaining respect and admiration
from peers. We individuals are just not used to it, as we are typically quickly labeled as antisocial and that stigma carries with us.
This was a great statement/question and was my major hurdle for a long time as well:
One other thing I don't undrstand is how it works considering the subject during discussion.
This is far from a static situation, meaning that the overall "truth" I state here will vary from situation to situation(your mileage may vary). But
let me put it to you in the most basic form, this took a long time to comprehend, and may for you as well, but when you realize it, it all opens
The reality is that you don't need much of an understanding at all of the point which you discuss with others. What you must do however, is while you
match their mannerisms, you have to make sure that your verbal communication is desplaying a willful, direct, desire to KNOW. Once the person feels
that you CARE enough to know, it is alsmost the same as KNOWING what he knows, as he will then be more than happy to share what he knows with you.
The beauty of this point is that it works with most personality types, and in most situations. Be sure that you match them in all the factors I've
mentioned, and always try to convey the WILLINGNESS to understand. Humans love to feel like a "tutor" even if on a subconcious level, you are using
that instinct to your advantage, and they are happy to give you that power. The enthusiasim to learn is the key.
Also, what an excellent point you make in how to combat this. Perhaps I've thought that on a lower level and that is what made me decide to share
this info with you all. The more who know this, the less effect it will have? Interesting indeed.
Thank you for the support! Really tear this info apart and make it work for you!
An excellent post with some great thoughts in it. You are obviously an individual. How can I make that assumption? Because you sound
like myself on this topic. I wanted to take your statements point-by-point, as it really will illuminate a lot of this.
perhaps your giving people in general a little too much credit?
Not at all Sturod, but I know EXACTLY
why you'd think that. I thought that too while I stood and watched it all. This machine that I'm
speaking of is an ancient one, and it's just bred into us throughout normal life "routine".
why should you be the one to confrom to their like minded manner of cunduct?
Ah I know what you mean. I assure you that internally I am not a conformist Sturod. You see, in reality my(or yours when you do this) conformity is in
fact an illusion. You never lose sight of yourself when doing this, you are still who you are. In fact you are using this method to gain the persons
trust and respect through common ground. After a bit you could, if you were so inclined, "lead" the other person, and manipulate them. I gave a
brief example of this in my first post, but a more malicious individual could take it farther I'm certain. I however would never do so.
those who have not learned to accept ones truthful inner being, are the ones in need of a different outlook. pleasanties aside, if you directly match
someones thoughts how will you be able to excel cooperatively?
That wonderful in concept, but let's get back to the real world. I have no problem with myself, lonewolfs have no problem with what they believe.
However you have to exist in a system built almost opposite of the way you are, and therefore society rejects you. You are assigned a "wide-use"
label and then are stuck with it.
What I'm doing here is showing others how to advance in social and professional situations, without giving up what they truly believe in. See, when
you break it apart, life, and the societal system we live in, it's a game. You don't play the game, and you are labeled. However if you know how to
play the game, you can play it, and in fact excel
In reality, I'm probably the most Self-Actualized you have ever met. I've formed my beliefs at a young age, and am not afraid to use them when
needed. I were that badge with pride, when needed. But to advance in the game of life, you must adhere to certain conventions that I and other
"loners" may not wish to conform to. That's where this method allows you to shine in situations that would normally leave you on the "outside
i find the best way to convince someone of something is the most bluntly. frank and asserting tones get the job done.
I can certainly respect that, but that won't get you nearly as far as you'd think. You will come against walls in situations, that your bluntness
will never tear down. You will either scrap your efforts and look like a fool, or you will continue an be percieved as a "psycho" by those that do
not agree with you.
What I'm speaking of is a way to harness the other person's want of a common ground, their desire to "befriend", you use that to your advantage.
You and I work in the same office. Same attendance record, same or similar work ethic( I may stay later from time to time but then you do too etc)
You've never heard what I've written here, so you don't know my true motivations, or how I do what I do.
We go about our daily routines, your unwaveringness keeps you sitting off at your desk while I am at the "watercooler" using my method to garner
laughs and have others "bond" with me.
The word spreads and the boss has interest in this guy that seems so "Charismatic". I use this method again with him, letting him feel to be leading
our friendship development, but in fact I am doing what's needed to pull the strings.
Tough times for the company ahead. Layoffs are on the way. Office scuttle but is that our department is loosing 3 people. I can then guarantee you
that my name is not on my bosses list, is yours?
You'd not know, you could be out of there in two weeks with a horrible severence package. I'll feel bad for you as I'm on my way to get the boss,
we're going to lunch and then headed off to the putting green. I'll be sure to pick ya up a sympathy card on the way back, gotta get the whole
office to sign it.
Of course the will do so begrudgingly, as even though they don't know or like you, the feel sorry for "that strange guy". Maybe someone will get
you a cake.
Your views have gotten you a front row seat to "the outside looking in". My method secured my position and will have me moving up to the boss'
position(on his recommendation) when he takes his next step up the ladder.
Sound far fetched? Sound like a "t.v. show"? Let me tell ya something Sturod, that's a true account with you replaced by someone else I knew.
Dunno what happened to that guy, but I do feel rather bad for him. Maybe that's another reason why I wanted to post this thread, so others can
survive, and so that others don't have to fall out.
The beauty of the situation though, is that he could have used that method to "come out of his shell", and the cards could have fallen
That's the real world.
That's the basis for professional communications.
And that's how you get ahead most of the time.
[edit on 10-10-2004 by Xatnys]