Before I say all this, let me tell you that the Su-47 is probably my second-favorite plane, next to the Su-35 BM, so I'm not ranting on you because
I'm pro-American/anti-Russian. In fact, I've gone to Russia for no other reason than to see a MAKS show since they were showing off Su-35 BM.
Originally posted by sovietman
So if we tell all this in one sentence, su-47 is much more agile.
Of course, this is correct. You can probably as any Raptor lover, and they would tell you that Su-47 has some serious aces in its paws when it comes
down to maneuverability. But there is the issue of practicality. Very, very, very, very, (give or take a few hundred "very"s) few modern combat
situations degenerate into WVR combat. It's all about BVR, where no maneuvering is necessary. You just pull the trigger and watch the little
"DESTROYED" pop up on the HUD. So, the F-22's BVR-oriented design is simply more practical for modern use. Now, before I get too far into this, in
WVR the Su-47 looks a lot better, but for the advantage it affords you it's not quite worth the difference in BVR.
F-22 has supercruise capability. It is a nice thing but it's not so importaint in combat, except for lengthening the weapon's range, but Russia has
long range missiles, wich U.S. doesn't.
Thing 1: Supercruise is vital when getting to a combat zone. It doesn't help to get there late because you're slow, or with 10% fuel because you
used afterburners all the way there.
Thing 2: Currently, R-77 and AIM-120 C-7 are pretty well on par. The R-77RVV-AE-PD (Enough letters?) should be on-par with AIM-120D. Also, the Novator
R-172 missile of which you might be speaking is still not operational, and the AA-X-13 (R-37) is still experimental. Also, the long-ranged missiles
are intended for use on High-Value Assets, like AWACS or Tankers. Not other fighters.
By the way Sukhoi said su-47 will have supercruise ability. The top speed of operational su-47 is not yet known. FSW are usefull in supersonic flight,
because they act the same way as delta wings. The only problem is twisting, but use of composite materials solve it.
Actually one of the main problems with Su-47 and supersonic travel was the wing root. All the force on the wing is put onto the wing root, with which
they were having a great deal of trouble since for on the wing multiplies as you go transonic and supersonic. The root of this is the inherently
not-so-broad wing. A delta wing is connected to the aircraft over a very long area because its shape allows such a thing. The FSW on the Su-47 does
not, which causes the problem.
You were talking about stealth. You were all brainwashed. Stealth does not exist, exept maybe in gliding aircraft. Did you see any picture of
F-22 like this?
Can you see the hot track behind the raptor??
Infra-Red tracking is only effective under 50km, most combat takes place past 80km range. Even then, IR can only detect
the enemy, not identify
them. As well, I think that the range on most IR missiles is under or around 40km. So that doesn't help much.
The stealth we speak of is a reduced RCS, based on radar. That kind of stealth is very real.
Raptor designers say they made a revolutionary turbofan where the cold air surrounds the hot core. I can tell you, by IR cameras, a track like this in
the picture can be detected from hundreds or even thousands of miles away. In the exhaust of an aircraft are many small particles, which can't be
removed so easily and reflect radar beams perfectly.
Actually, most of what is in jet exhaust is water vapour. Water vapour will definitely mess a little bit with radar, but not nearly as much as you're
selling. Why do you think they can use radio telescopes in all weather?
Even if everything i wrote about stealth is wrong, su-47 will have stealth capability. The only possible way of avoiding radar detection is by flying
very low. Again in one sentence, new russian aircraft (also su-47 will) have IR cameras and radars on the ground are powerfull enough to detect
At the range that IR is effective, you could probably detect them by radar anyway.
And about the avionics. We don't know which avionics will the operational su-47 have, but the testing version had digital engine control and very
Su-47 isn't going to be produced, so we'll never know. If you're talking about PAK-FA, it's speculated to have the N050 BRLS AFAR/AESA radar.
[edit on 1/27/2008 by Darkpr0]