Christian upbringing? (me, too) Recently born again? Let's talk!

reply to post by Deetermined

I would consider that social disobedience, not civil disobedience.

Civil disobedience would require breaking the law and/or disobeying authority.

Okay, fine. Social disobedience. Inasmuch as The Law was the Religion, and the Priests were the Authorities, he certainly wasn't "following the law" by storming into their temple and causing a scene.

He may not have argued with Pilate or defended himself against the Romans, but he certainly knew what he was doing would probably get him killed.

As for Mysticsm....and your questions to BlueMule...
Christ himself was a mystic, who studied with the Buddhists in India, as well as the mystics who were the Essenes -- they were, in fact, his family. His mother was a mystic leader, too. He was teaching the Golden Rule, and the powers did not like it. They -- his own people -- killed him for not conforming. They insisted the Romans kill him, rather. Nice.

Actually, I don't believe in the resurrection, either. I think they got him down from the cross and healed him. Lots of evidence that he survived, and plenty of historical research backing up the possibility.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

You can blame God all you want but there comes a time when you have to stop casting blame on others and accept your own blame. The 14 years of pain and anguish after i ran away at 17 was inflicted on by no one else but me, i freed myself at 17 and then enslaved myself again to my rage and anger and pain and no one else did that but me.

This has nothing to do what what I'm saying. Were it anyone else, a mortal man here on Earth perhaps, asking you to do these things in "reverence", we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

All love of "God" stems from the fact that whatever we fear, he'll supposedly save us from. It's a godmod, and we'll tell ourselves whatever lies we have to in order to sleep at night.

There's really no point in me arguing with you. Your mind is firmly made up so i will leave you with that, i wish you the best of whatever in your life.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


I don't think there is anything in the Bible that says God's love is unconditional.
The Bible tells us He loves us...enough to give His only begotten Son to be sin for us...
God made promises to the Jewish people; some unconditional, some conditional but there was nothing unconditional regarding His love for us.
God has perfect love, but He also has perfect justice. Before the advent of Jesus, the rules were: you sin, you pay. Now, Jesus has paid for our sins, the only thing we have to do is accept His gift of payment.

Can we expect unconditional love without giving it in return? Do parents really have unconditional love for their children? I think not, judging by the adults they become.

My question to all you whiners....what has God done to you to make you so angry with Him?

You stick your finger in a fire and get burned then blame God because he created fire? Silly people.

reply to post by wildtimes


The kind of cult brainwashing that religions do is not easy to buck. Even now, as far from the christian cult that I am, I find my mind trying to slip back into it. That was almost 20 years ago.

Like when my cuz died, the night of his memorial party, I found my mind wandering back to those lunatics ideas they put in my head. Wondering if cuz was burning in some hell because he was raised native faith, and not a born again , baptized twice christian. It's pretty scary sometimes, it can creep up anytime, usually when I am laying in bed trying to sleep, or working on a piece of art. If I don't put up a real effort to push the crap out of my mind, it just builds up. If that makes any sense lol.

reply to post by 1PLA1


True love is nothing but unconditional. You put stipulations up, then it is not love, it's something twisted, masquerading as love.

reply to post by 1PLA1

Can we expect unconditional love without giving it in return? Do parents really have unconditional love for their children? I think not, judging by the adults they become.

My question to all you whiners....what has God done to you to make you so angry with Him?

You stick your finger in a fire and get burned then blame God because he created fire? Silly people.

Woops!
Whiners? Silly? That is charging in here right off the bat and loaded for bear. We are having a perfectly civil discussion without name-calling. We are discussing what our personal experiences are that shaped us.

And unconditional love IS what a healthy parent feels for their child...a deep, abiding, welcoming love. It hurts to see your children suffering, making mistakes, falling, crying out, being hurt by others or their own choices. As a loving parent, you welcome them back with open arms, your own heart ACHES for them. I suspect maybe you haven't had children? It's impossible to put into words the love a parent feels, like magic, for their child.

I think this is how some people think of "God." Like actually a parent. The thing is, he's absent. Never a good thing when your children are still growing. And we are ALL still growing, always. We're always BECOMING.

reply to post by BlueMule


I did spend years studying religious mysteries.

All the books I read, without exception, quoted the Bible.

reply to post by TKDRL

The kind of cult brainwashing that religions do is not easy to buck. Even now, as far from the christian cult that I am, I find my mind trying to slip back into it. That was almost 20 years ago.

Like when my cuz died, the night of his memorial party, I found my mind wandering back to those lunatics ideas they put in my head. Wondering if cuz was burning in some hell because he was raised native faith, and not a born again , baptized twice christian. It's pretty scary sometimes, it can creep up anytime, usually when I am laying in bed trying to sleep, or working on a piece of art. If I don't put up a real effort to push the crap out of my mind, it just builds up. If that makes any sense lol.

Yes, it makes sense! I know it's hard to overcome what we're early on taught, and hard to learn later what we weren't taught as kids. Like learning another language. I am bilingual, and it was a skill I learned from the time I was in 4th grade, building each year more and more, until now I am fully conversational. It would have been easier to learn both languages from birth, and some families do that, which is a great advantage for their kids.

Knowing another language, and its cultural backgrounds, opens up a completely new set of doors. I think this is important spiritually, too. When I started learning about Buddhism and Eastern thought, my mind was very slow to wrap around it...but eventually, with diligence and practice, I got it.

I promote expanding knowledge so that we all can understand our common ground, even if we have differences in lifestyle, language, dress, education, traditions, and pastimes. That is how we'll get to world peace. Tolerance and understanding. If one closes one's mind to other religious beliefs or traditions, that's what they have. A closed mind.

Okay, here we are now in the Off Topic forum. That's cool; more traffic here anyway, usually.

While I do think religion is a giant conspiracy, we can still carry on our perspective sharing over here.

reply to post by 1PLA1

All the books I read, without exception, quoted the Bible.

Did they tell you that the Bible itself is an amalgamation of ideas quoted from other, older religions? Because it was.

reply to post by wildtimes


Sorry for the name calling...I did get a bit carried away.

As for my experience....After studying other religions, including the mystery religion aspects of those religions, and finding that they all kept referring to the Bible, I started really studying the Bible.

From there I chose to put my faith in Jesus, the Son of God.

Before then, I was like a lot of you. I would read the Old Testament and wonder how a loving God could ask those people to do the things He wanted them to do, like kill them all...men, women, children...all the livestock, as well.

Now, I understand that there was so much more involved that we, in this day and age, do not know about. I understand because of my study of other religions as well as studying the historical background of the area, the people and of the ancient religions.

Unfortunately, the same conditions that warranted that slaughter is rising up again today. We will see the same conditions in our modern age that warranted the flood of Noah's time.

As Christians, our only job is to glorify God in everything we say and do. Unfortunately, we are still only human and do make errors in judgement.

Originally posted by wildtimes

Okay, fine. Social disobedience. Inasmuch as The Law was the Religion, and the Priests were the Authorities, he certainly wasn't "following the law" by storming into their temple and causing a scene.

He may not have argued with Pilate or defended himself against the Romans, but he certainly knew what he was doing would probably get him killed.

In fact, here's a list of the arrests and six trials of Jesus. He was put to death for claiming to be the Son of God, blasphemy.

ecclesia.org...

As for Mysticsm....and your questions to BlueMule...
Christ himself was a mystic, who studied with the Buddhists in India, as well as the mystics who were the Essenes -- they were, in fact, his family. His mother was a mystic leader, too. He was teaching the Golden Rule, and the powers did not like it. They -- his own people -- killed him for not conforming. They insisted the Romans kill him, rather. Nice.

What? His mother was a mystic leader? Who claimed that?

Actually, I don't believe in the resurrection, either. I think they got him down from the cross and healed him. Lots of evidence that he survived, and plenty of historical research backing up the possibility.

I can see where people would be confused about this since Jesus did make physical appearances in his heavenly body, but I don't think his earthly body would have been capable of appearing and disappearing at will along with walking through doors.

reply to post by wildtimes


Yeah I hear you about language. I am trying hard to learn canadian french now. Not easy at all, maybe because learning as an adult seems more frustrating than when you are a kid. Before the fun was sucked out of learning by the school system

Originally posted by BlueMule

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by BlueMule

 

One simple question.

When you meditate, what do you focus and meditate on?

I meditate on virtues. Faith, hope, love, charity, compassion, justice, mercy, forgiveness, dignity, honor, strength.

edit on 17-7-2012 by BlueMule because: (no reason given)

I thought Christian Mysticism was supposed to be meditation focused on the scriptures or Christ.

Any form of mysticism can focus on virtues, but that doesn't necessarily make it Christian Mysticism, in my opinion.

reply to post by Deetermined

What? His mother was a mystic leader? Who claimed that?

You are unaware of the Essene sect that he grew up in? They were the mystics and healers of the time; he lived amongst them with his parents and siblings, until he went abroad to study with the Tibetan priests. The Essenes were well-known for their advanced knowledge of medicine, and they kept to themselves -- apart from the majority mainstream Jews.
reluctant-messenger.com... (scroll down the page to Essenes)

Essenes

The Essenes were a third religious sect during the time of Christ that lived away from the towns. Instead they lived in simple communities. The Essenes practiced the seventh day sabbath, non-violence to all living creatures and the sharing of all material possesions. They were uninvolved in the politics of the Sadducees and Pharisees and shunned publicity. Because of the discovery of dead sea scroll material, this ancient sect and their teachings are back alive. The dead sea scrolls were hidden by this ancient people long ago in the caves of Qumram. Josephus writing around 80 A.D. said that the Essenes were Jews by birth but semed to have a greater affection for one another than they did for the Pharisees and Sadducees. Their piety toward God was extraordinary. They wore chitw garments. They used no profanity. They were ministers of peace. They spend a great deal of time studying the writings of the ancients.

Check out MagnumOpus's threads, he knows a great deal about them. Also, a book called "The Fifth Gospel" is an excellent intro to the mysticism part of Jesus' life and beliefs. Here is the wiki bio on the author en.wikipedia.org... Note his credentials towards the bottom.

reply to post by Deetermined

In fact, here's a list of the arrests and six trials of Jesus.

Why was he arrested if he wasn't breaking any laws? Civil disobedience is indicated by the fact that he was arrested.

He was put to death for claiming to be the Son of God, blasphemy.

Yeah, well, as far as I have read and learned over the last 40 years, he never claimed that. Pilate asked him, and he said "That's what you say." He also said that we are all children of God. He said "I and the Father are one." Supposedly. But, everything -- EVERYTHING he is reported to have said is hearsay. Nothing more. Hearsay. And the huge chasm between Christian sects now is due to the vagueness of that hearsay, and the fact that it begs for interpretation, which leaves it wide open to twisting to suit.

Thus, even if it were the Word of God, it's a piteous example of omnipotent lecturing; big FAIL as to getting the message across the same to everyone. One would think if "God" were interested in us having an instruction book, he'd have made it readable for all, not just a few. "Speaking in tongues" does NOT mean foaming at the mouth and uttering gibberish, but being able to speak and every person understanding what is said "In their own language."

Too bad God failed at getting that right, too. He certainly didn't "write" or "inspire" "in tongues," it's all been left to guesswork and interpretation, forever.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

It pains me to know just some of the abuse you suffered. And yes, I can empathize, because I know something about abuse and death, firsthand. But I'll leave it there, this isn't a contest as to who had it worse. Abuse is abuse.

I do not blame God by any means. Why should I blame a being who doesn't exist in the way I thought it did for decades. And as you've seen in some of my posts, I own up to it. I am responsible for what I did in those many years.

I respect you and the others here who stand for something. Because if you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything. And my intent, truly is not to offend the believers here. I was there, entrenched for a long time.

But I will help non-Christian people understand Christian doctrine where I can. And I will confront what I believe to be the biggest cult and lie in history. Not out of wrath, anger, or revenge. And not because I have any interest in harming Christians in any way. But because it is wrong on so many levels, and what has been done by those who devised it is unforgivable.

Nevertheless, I understand your position, and know that you must do what you believe is right.

reply to post by Deetermined

Jesus did not rebel against authority.

Yes, he became frustrated and dealt with those whom he was trying to teach, but that wasn't bucking authority.

Opposing established doctrine is bucking authority. Remember how many times he and his disciples were told to shut up?

Again, rebellion. See how your logic has been warped by your inability to handle the fears of chaos?

reply to post by Deetermined

Let me ask this another way. Has man improved mankind's mindset in a way that brings us all together, without just the task of entertaining ourselves or finding ways to live longer?

Let me put this another way. How does promising unconditional love, and then setting apart thousands of people by labeling them as demonic, even though they hurt no one, and then encouraging followers of this faith that says to love thy neighbor as thyself to persecute and judge these people, how does that bring mankind together?

The Bible values unity, yet teaches division. It lectures love, yet instructs on destruction. It shows us love, and makes examples out of chaos. The Bible is a contradiction.

reply to post by Deetermined


And how is defying the Roman standards not disobeying authority?