Is Matter Self Aware?

I wanted to get your opinions on matter being self aware or not.

Many believe that a big bang happened and from there matter slowly evolved into planets and eventually cells came to be. Now during the time of the big bang it is safe to say there was no one(person) to witness it, so if matter existed and no one was around to see it, did matter have to be self aware to exist?

If matter is self aware does it have consciousness? If matter isn't self aware then how does matter exist outside of consciousness or at a time when no one(person) is around to see that it indeed does/did exist?

I think I'm trying to ask opinions on how does matter exist without anyone to see it if it isn't self aware?

Either that or god exists.

Why would matter need to be self-aware to exist?

Originally posted by Ralphy
I think I'm trying to ask opinions on how does matter exist without anyone to see it if it isn't self aware?

does it really matter if matter knows it's matter whether anyone's there to care if it matters anyway ?

just sayin....

I'm trying to inspire discussion about whether or not matter exist if it isn't self aware and no one is around to witness the existence of it.

I know some people say it just exists but I was hoping to see peoples opinion on how matter exists if it is not self aware and no one is around to see it.

reply to post by Ralphy


Why do you think that conciousness is a requirement for existence?

Does conciousness have to be there at the first instance (and at all subsequent times), or can it occur later (or earlier) and still apply?

Spatially, at what proximity does conciousness stop/start affecting matter?

How does conciousness relate, in energy levels, to matter?

Can a barely conscious entity cause only diffuse, lightweight matter?

What level of consciousness could create a universe full of matter?

Originally posted by chr0naut
reply to post by Ralphy

 

Why do you think that conciousness is a requirement for existence?

Does conciousness have to be there at the first instance (and at all subsequent times), or can it occur later (or earlier) and still apply?

Spatially, at what proximity does conciousness stop affecting matter?

How does conciousness relate, in energy levels, to matter?

Can a barely conscious entity cause only diffuse, lightweight matter?

What level of consciousness could create a universe full of matter?

I'm not saying consciousnesses is a requirement for matter to exist, I'm just asking opinions on how it would exist on its own without consciousness.

Originally posted by Ralphy
I know some people say it just exists but I was hoping to see peoples opinion on how matter exists if it is not self aware and no one is around to see it.

So ... and somewhat in a nutshell ... it's the proverbial 'if a tree falls in the woods' type question/conundrum. (?)

If no one is there to experience it does it actually 'exist'. Is it matter. Does it matter. Does it 'know' it's matter. Does/Would knowing it's 'matter' matter.

Think I kinda get where you're coming from and trying to go with all this ... what with matter knowing it's matter, and what or how does that effect the existence or understanding of and by matter as to whether or not it actually matters in the first place, if matter is aware of its existence from the start or only after the threshold of it actually mattering that it is and realizes it's matter comes to pass.

I'd rather take a walk in the woods and listen for 'that heretofore unsung falling timber'.

90+% of the alleged "sentient" human being are not self-aware which makes this an interesting question.

I imagine consciousness is as wide a spectrum as the field of potentiality.

Originally posted by Ralphy
I'm not saying consciousnesses is a requirement for matter to exist, I'm just asking opinions on how it would exist on its own without consciousness.

Matter is the subject, conscious is the predicate. The predicate cannot exist without a subject. Therefor, consciousness wouldn't exist without matter.

reply to post by Ralphy


My belief is that those who believe that consciousness 'makes' the universe have not considered the possibility that consciousness 'arises' from the universe and is directed entirely by the universe.

I.e: our consciousness seems to have an influence on matter only because we are incapable of seeing anything else. Because we have consciousness, the only way the universe can present itself would be that it appears that we influence matter.

Consciousness and free will are therefore an illusion based upon the limitations that the state of the universe presents to us as possibilities.

The universe makes us appear conscious, our consciousness does not control the universe.

There is no mechanism of action which describes how our consciousness could affect matter.

There are mechanisms of action that describe how our consciousness may be limited in what it is capable of seeing. To the point where we only see what the universe presents to us.

We choose to filter this through the concept that we have free will to choose what state the universe presents.

Originally posted by Ralphy
I wanted to get your opinions on matter being self aware or not.

Many believe that a big bang happened and from there matter slowly evolved into planets and eventually cells came to be. Now during the time of the big bang it is safe to say there was no one(person) to witness it, so if matter existed and no one was around to see it, did matter have to be self aware to exist?

If matter is self aware does it have consciousness? If matter isn't self aware then how does matter exist outside of consciousness or at a time when no one(person) is around to see that it indeed does/did exist?

I think I'm trying to ask opinions on how does matter exist without anyone to see it if it isn't self aware?

edit on 15-7-2012 by Ralphy because: spelling

There's a quandary. You are asking for an answer to the question of infinity-of a finite mind. I think that chr0naut's post above makes some excellent points.

Matter in its basic form does not have a consciousness. But certain forms of matter combined into complex compounds may indeed have various forms of intelligence and awareness.

Our human consciousness might be considered a matrix of extremely refined matter (sub-particles) combined with unknown forms of energy, light, electromagnetism and so forth creating a medium capable of thought, awareness, identity - that is self contained. Hence the human mind (spirit?) in a body of flesh.

As for the big bang, there was most certainly matter in the universe prior to the bang. The big bang resulted in the organization of matter, from which everything sprang. The universe now is a self replicating organism in which matter and energy combine, dissipate and recombine, moving from one form to another.

Whether this applies to our consciousness when the body dies is another matter. Scientology and Buddhism teaches that the human consciousness came from and returns to a collective cosmic consciousness. In the Abrahamic religions, it is taught that individual consciousness is contained in an ethereal body (the spirit) and is sent to a spirit world that is structured by a supreme being (God). The Mormons believe that 'God commanded the intelligences to organize', paraphrasing a passage from their doctrinal book, Doctrine & Covenants. Here the expression - 'intelligences', refers to how matter obeys God. Something I would seriously doubt if it means that individual sub-particles are smart enough to believe in a creator..

As far as matter existing or organizing without doing so on its own volition, all forms of matter, gas and so forth have opposing or interlocking properties that produce attractions and reactions. So, they don't require intelligence to do anything. They do things by the very nature of their properties and the changing conditions of the environment.

I remember reading about an experiment that showed that some sort of "matter" seemed to react and know it was being observed....seemingly this "matter" was "aware"

Originally posted by MountainLaurel
I remember reading about an experiment that showed that some sort of "matter" seemed to react and know it was being observed....seemingly this "matter" was "aware"

I hear that light only travels in particles if its to be observed, in waves if it wont be observed. but if we look at a star at night thats 100 light years away, that light left the star 100 years ago so what the hell?

The mistake you are making is the idea that the observer you are talking about has anything to do with humans. An observation is made whenever anything interacts with any other thing. The lab equipment "observes" the experiment when its atoms interact with the photons that comprise the experiment.

reply to post by Ralphy


"matter" is not self aware... because there is no self, just particals

Think of the age old saying... if a tree falls in the woods and no one is around to hear it, does it make a noise...

Of course it does...

Well how can sound exist if no one is around to hear it...

Simple... sound is a vibration.

Maybe, along with matter, the big bang created life in form of energy, and thus the matter was able to exist
This is really interesting, I'll keep wraping my head around it.

Thanks, OP!

Originally posted by MountainLaurel
I remember reading about an experiment that showed that some sort of "matter" seemed to react and know it was being observed....seemingly this "matter" was "aware"

What you are referring to is the Wave Duality Theory. It means that matter can act as a wave or particle, depending on whether it is being observed.

In one of several experiments, physicists found quite by accident that shooting a photon wave (light beam) through a screen with a slits, left wave impressions on a background screen. When they attempted to measure the result using a sensitive instrument, placing it near the slit screen, the patterns left by the beam of light on the back screen showed that it changed from a wave to a particle action.

This indicates that the matter of light could be changing its behavior when it is being measured (observed). Apparently there is some mysterious interaction between the observer (measuring instrument) and the matter or beam of light passing near it.

I think that when the universe was created. Regardless of how it evolved. I think that there was a clear distinction made between the living and the dead. Plants Animals and People all being alive. Everything else being dead. I'm not a scientist. And I know buddists and others believe all is living. But I don't think so. Because say it was all living. That would mean we'd have to watch our every step and action. Like forget about walking across a grass feild. You'd be in trouble for flooring you car gas peddal, as it would be abuse to the car. Like it's nonsensical at that point. We have eough to worry about taking care of what we know is living matter.

"God" IS conscious and that conscious created matter which gave birth to the universe and everything in it.

Your soul, spirit or conscious(which ever you prefer) is connected to your brain which allows you to control your body. So when you die your conscious, soul or spirit is no longer connected to your body.(if you go to heaven will you be aware of it all?)

your conscious, soul or spirit is connected to other conscious, souls and spirits and everything that conscious god created with his conscious. Which is why no thing can exist without something being aware of its existance (if you arent conscious does anything exist?)

With out conscious matter wouldnt exist, without matter you wouldnt exist(physical you, maybe conscious you will exist with "god"), without god nothing would exist because matter cannot create conscious but conscious creates matter.

so everything is everything because consciousness creates and something had to create matter to even have it exist. But conscious which is not matter and not created by matter and is the creator of time had to have been here or there (where ever...) forever